Political Roundtable Part XVII

[cammac]

MAGA those tax cuts will create jobs!

Kimberly-Clark says they will use Donald Trump’s massive tax cut gift to restructure and “allocate significant capital to shareholders”.

Of course, at the expense of 5,500 people losing their jobs.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/1/23/1735523/-Kimberly-Clark-Cutting-5-500-Jobs-To-Help-Pay-For-The-Restructure-They-Will-Use-Trump-s-Tax-Cut

[cammac]

America Alone!
While the Trumpster is circling his wagons and giving the big FU to other countries the rest of the world is moving on.Trudeau announced that Canada will join the TPP which will be signed in March. Canada finalized it's arrangement after so minor disagreements were resolved.

Canada has agreed to a resurrected version of the Trans-Pacific Partnership and will sign on to the deal.

The deal, renamed the Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership, comes after talks in Japan this week with the 11 countries still committed to the deal.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/tpp-champagne-deal-1.4499616

Canada has also established a free trade agreement with the EU.

What effects will this have on the USA well 1st those loyal rural voters for MAGA! In 2016 11 Billion in agricultural exports were sent to Japan with the TPP most of that will be replaced by Canada and Australia.

Today, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau of Canada took the opportunity to announce that on exactly the anniversary of the United States’ withdrawal from the TPP, a trade agreement had been reached between the other 11 countries that would exclude the United States and had been signed in Tokyo. (I’m sure the timing was totally a coincidence.) While it was widely expected both in the US and abroad that the US’s withdrawal would jeopardize the agreement, it now seems the agreement could be ratified as early as March.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/1/24/1735556/-Justin-Trudeau-had-an-announcement-for-Trump-in-Davos

[Pointgod]

GREAT READ

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Great read but two things stand out:

1. The DCCC is not some omnipotent force. There has to be a way around them when it comes to fundraising for more Progresive candidates. Might be time to build their own apparatus.

2. Democrats are the masters of self-immolation but there has to be a better way to move the needle than just tearing down Democratic candidates. Letting Republic candidates win is a good way to get zero progressive policies passed. Maybe getting money out of politics needs to be the focus of progressive candidates in the primaries thereby forcing their opponents to address the issue.

Money isn’t the problem, Dems often outraise Republicans. It really is a competence issue. Dems are constantly getting played.

I'm not sure if you had a chance to read the whole article but money is a huge issue. The DCCC favour candidates that can raise money so they'll go with the known quantity over the candidate that might be better able to turn out voters. This isn't always true but if all elections were funded by the government (both parties get the same amount of resources) this problem might be alleviated. Dems are more competent than Republicans but they their biggest failing is that they are often the only adults in the room.

[Pointgod]

America Alone!
While the Trumpster is circling his wagons and giving the big FU to other countries the rest of the world is moving on.Trudeau announced that Canada will join the TPP which will be signed in March. Canada finalized it's arrangement after so minor disagreements were resolved.

Canada has agreed to a resurrected version of the Trans-Pacific Partnership and will sign on to the deal.

The deal, renamed the Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership, comes after talks in Japan this week with the 11 countries still committed to the deal.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/tpp-champagne-deal-1.4499616

Canada has also established a free trade agreement with the EU.

What effects will this have on the USA well 1st those loyal rural voters for MAGA! In 2016 11 Billion in agricultural exports were sent to Japan with the TPP most of that will be replaced by Canada and Australia.

Today, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau of Canada took the opportunity to announce that on exactly the anniversary of the United States’ withdrawal from the TPP, a trade agreement had been reached between the other 11 countries that would exclude the United States and had been signed in Tokyo. (I’m sure the timing was totally a coincidence.) While it was widely expected both in the US and abroad that the US’s withdrawal would jeopardize the agreement, it now seems the agreement could be ratified as early as March.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/1/24/1735556/-Justin-Trudeau-had-an-announcement-for-Trump-in-Davos

Trump's Alzheimer's riddled brain is still stuck in the 80's where the global market place was less connected. Justin Trudeau just rolled on his ass and so will the rest of the world.

[nate33]

MAGA those tax cuts will create jobs!

Kimberly-Clark says they will use Donald Trump’s massive tax cut gift to restructure and “allocate significant capital to shareholders”.

Of course, at the expense of 5,500 people losing their jobs.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/1/23/1735523/-Kimberly-Clark-Cutting-5-500-Jobs-To-Help-Pay-For-The-Restructure-They-Will-Use-Trump-s-Tax-Cut

So I guess in your fantasy world, these tax cuts are what caused Kimberly-Clark to cut jobs. It couldn't possibly be that their profitability issue was already a problem prior to the tax cuts but the tax cuts at least gave them some wiggle room to restructure without an even greater loss of jobs.

[nate33]

America Alone!
While the Trumpster is circling his wagons and giving the big FU to other countries the rest of the world is moving on.Trudeau announced that Canada will join the TPP which will be signed in March. Canada finalized it's arrangement after so minor disagreements were resolved.

Canada has agreed to a resurrected version of the Trans-Pacific Partnership and will sign on to the deal.

The deal, renamed the Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership, comes after talks in Japan this week with the 11 countries still committed to the deal.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/tpp-champagne-deal-1.4499616

Canada has also established a free trade agreement with the EU.

What effects will this have on the USA well 1st those loyal rural voters for MAGA! In 2016 11 Billion in agricultural exports were sent to Japan with the TPP most of that will be replaced by Canada and Australia.

Today, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau of Canada took the opportunity to announce that on exactly the anniversary of the United States’ withdrawal from the TPP, a trade agreement had been reached between the other 11 countries that would exclude the United States and had been signed in Tokyo. (I’m sure the timing was totally a coincidence.) While it was widely expected both in the US and abroad that the US’s withdrawal would jeopardize the agreement, it now seems the agreement could be ratified as early as March.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/1/24/1735556/-Justin-Trudeau-had-an-announcement-for-Trump-in-Davos

Trump's Alzheimer's riddled brain is still stuck in the 80's where the global market place was less connected. Justin Trudeau just rolled on his ass and so will the rest of the world.

Yeah, the markets clearly think Trump has no idea what he is doing on economic issues.

[I_Like_Dirt]

So I guess in your fantasy world, these tax cuts are what caused Kimberly-Clark to cut jobs. It couldn't possibly be that their profitability issue was already a problem prior to the tax cuts but the tax cuts at least gave them some wiggle room to restructure without an even greater loss of jobs.

Ah! So you see the tax cuts as a variation on a long-term continuous bailout to a failing industries and businesses? I suppose you were in favor of bailouts to the failing automakers and financial sectors, too?

As for the markets, they clearly feel Trump is amazing for shareholders in the immediate term. Not sure what else you'd expect to be able to glean from them.

[gtn130]

Read on Twitter

Again, Nate, SD20 et al are totally cool with this anti-democracy authoritarian clown fiesta of a presidency.

[nate33]

NY post joins Fox. when will main stream jump all in.
https://nypost.com/2018/01/23/evidence-suggests-a-massive-scandal-is-brewing-at-the-fbi/

Wow! When the New York Post and Fox News agree on a story, you know it must be true!

montestewart, you really should look into this. It's not some wacko conspiracy theory. There are A LOT of facts to support it and the timeline is highly suspect.

[nate33]

So I guess in your fantasy world, these tax cuts are what caused Kimberly-Clark to cut jobs. It couldn't possibly be that their profitability issue was already a problem prior to the tax cuts but the tax cuts at least gave them some wiggle room to restructure without an even greater loss of jobs.

Ah! So you see the tax cuts as a variation on a long-term continuous bailout to a failing industries and businesses? I suppose you were in favor of bailouts to the failing automakers and financial sectors, too?

Socialist thinking. You seem to think that government has the right to all the property of the citizens and any morsel they allow citizens to keep is somehow a grant from a generous government.

[I_Like_Dirt]

Socialist thinking. You seem to think that government has the right to all the property of the citizens and any morsel they allow citizens to keep is somehow a grant from a generous government.

Right! Because that's exactly what I said. A right to all the property of citizens? Those poor billionaires and their morsels. I'm pretty sure they analogize well with the mouse in How The Grinch Stole Christmas. You know I didn't say that at all, and in fact you're actually coming closer to suggesting that workers should be that way to their employers than anything I said analogizes there.

As for what I think, I made no point on it. I merely pointed out a rather apt comparison between two of your stated comparisons. Why weren't you, for example, arguing for tax cuts to the automotive industry back then, or the banking industry? Why are we picking and choosing.

For the record, I support the idea of lowering taxes overall and doing a rather serious simplification of them. I prefer doing it responsibly, though, and not as a mass cut and run scheme, which this tax plan very much is. You're clearly intelligent, nate. It's absolutely obvious. On this particular forum (not Wizards forum, but topic, so to speak) you're starting with answers you feel you already know, and even moving those answers around to fit your biases, and then attempting to formulate the questions to fit those answers afterwards. That's dangerous thinking. And I say this not to suggest the Democrats or Republicans have or haven't been better or worse or whatever, but rather, I feel you'd be well served to take a step back on some of these issues. You might even come right back to most of your already formulated conclusions, but you're clearly used to being able to step back, and it's pretty obvious to me that you can and have on other topics, but you just aren't here (and no, that doesn't mean agreeing with anyone here, even me).

Times are changing faster than ever and that's going to require new, creative solutions that neither side has. It's also why it's more dangerous than ever to assume that old answers that you've believed for ages might not necessarily solve anything. And honestly, everyone is guilty of holding on to their past biases, myself included. it's impossible to escape them entirely. I see that less out of you than anyone in this thread, which is surprising, because I feel you're otherwise one of the smarter people here.

[TGW]

Yeah, the markets clearly think Trump has no idea what he is doing on economic issues.

Yea, just like the markets were sure George Bush knew what he was doing.

[Zonkerbl]

Great read but two things stand out:

1. The DCCC is not some omnipotent force. There has to be a way around them when it comes to fundraising for more Progresive candidates. Might be time to build their own apparatus.

2. Democrats are the masters of self-immolation but there has to be a better way to move the needle than just tearing down Democratic candidates. Letting Republic candidates win is a good way to get zero progressive policies passed. Maybe getting money out of politics needs to be the focus of progressive candidates in the primaries thereby forcing their opponents to address the issue.

Money isn’t the problem, Dems often outraise Republicans. It really is a competence issue. Dems are constantly getting played.

I'm not sure if you had a chance to read the whole article but money is a huge issue. The DCCC favour candidates that can raise money so they'll go with the known quantity over the candidate that might be better able to turn out voters. This isn't always true but if all elections were funded by the government (both parties get the same amount of resources) this problem might be alleviated. Dems are more competent than Republicans but they their biggest failing is that they are often the only adults in the room.

No, I haven't read the article. Dems don't have a problem raising money - they have a problem deciding how to spend it. That is fundamentally a competence issue.

Republicans know how to get ten dollars worth of votes from one dollar's worth of expenditure. That is competence. Just because they implement this by appealing to their base in what appears to be an incredibly childish and annoying way doesn't mean it isn't effective. Appealing to our lizard brain is cost effective. Dems need to understand this.

[Zonkerbl]

Yeah, the markets clearly think Trump has no idea what he is doing on economic issues.

Yea, just like the markets were sure George Bush knew what he was doing.

Yeah. Presidents don't have any influence whatsoever over the economy one way or the other (unless they press the button). It's a fool's game to claim or deny credit for anything the economy does.

[payitforward]

MAGA those tax cuts will create jobs!

Kimberly-Clark says they will use Donald Trump’s massive tax cut gift to restructure and “allocate significant capital to shareholders”.

Of course, at the expense of 5,500 people losing their jobs.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/1/23/1735523/-Kimberly-Clark-Cutting-5-500-Jobs-To-Help-Pay-For-The-Restructure-They-Will-Use-Trump-s-Tax-Cut

So I guess in your fantasy world, these tax cuts are what caused Kimberly-Clark to cut jobs. It couldn't possibly be that their profitability issue was already a problem prior to the tax cuts but the tax cuts at least gave them some wiggle room to restructure without an even greater loss of jobs.

Right, that's bad economics. A tax cut doesn't have any inherent connection to people losing their jobs.

In fairness, however, this may not have been cammac's "fantasy world;" he was quoting an article.

Now, I don't know the first thing about Kimberly-Clark's situation; I don't own the stock. Yet, in a very bullish market, their share price is down a bit from 1 year ago.

[payitforward]

Yeah, the markets clearly think Trump has no idea what he is doing on economic issues.

Oh, come on, nate.... Markets don't think, & you know it.

Moreover, I'd say it's very hard to know right now what this bull market means or how long it will last. Don't get me wrong -- I like it. But, I wouldn't advise going whole hog into stocks right now, nate, just b/c you think well of Donald Trump!!

[payitforward]

Yeah, the markets clearly think Trump has no idea what he is doing on economic issues.

Yea, just like the markets were sure George Bush knew what he was doing.

Yeah. Presidents don't have any influence whatsoever over the economy one way or the other (unless they press the button). It's a fool's game to claim or deny credit for anything the economy does.

Yup -- put better than I did.

& if not the economy, how much less the stock market!

[nate33]

Yeah, the markets clearly think Trump has no idea what he is doing on economic issues.

Oh, come on, nate.... Markets don't think, & you know it.

Moreover, I'd say it's very hard to know right now what this bull market means or how long it will last. Don't get me wrong -- I like it. But, I wouldn't advise going whole hog into stocks right now, nate, just b/c you think well of Donald Trump!!

The markets do think. They clearly believe that the future is bright under a Trump administration. That doesn't make them right, but it is what they think.

[TGW]

ING Direct made the mistake of creating their business model around a "strong Republican economy." Look where that got them.

[payitforward]

If you look at the graph of quarterly growth rates in the economy from 2010 until now, there is literally nothing to see that indicates a relationship to who is President.

(I started in 2010 in order not to give Pres. Obama some automatic credit for the *big* jump in growth rate in the 2d year of his Presidency)