Lather me with blather -- DRAFT thread 4

[Ed Wood]

Nate's rotation may not be a realistic scenario given the necessary accommodation of the excellent Andray Blatche's professional ego it is also about a totally better use of available personnel then the Booker/Blatche/McGee starting line, which would be pretty good for being bad and for Andray and JaVale wondering why Trevor cares so much about basketball but for nothing else.

[Benjammin]

I don't get the weeping and gnashing of teeth over Johnny V's non-participation in the next NBA season except that it might mean Kanter dropping is less likely. If the Wiz like Johnny V at 6 in some ways him having another year of quality coaching and seasoning instead of possibly being in lockout limbo is a good thing. Plus, it would delay his rookie deal from starting for a year.

The real challenge would be if neither Kanter nor Johnny V is on the board at 6. At that point a trade down to 9 or 10 for something to take Vesely/Leonard/Bismack Biyombo makes sense to me. If you put a gun to my head at 6 without Kanter or Johnny V on the board I would roll the dice with Biyombo but it would certainly be a tough pick to make.

[hands11]

When did Klay Thompson become such a hot commodity on this board? When his name started getting bandied about as a late lottery pick?

Klay Thompson is the exact same player he was 2 weeks ago when no one here was paying him any attention. I think Burks & Brooks are better players at SG. Thompson might be a "better fit" in the scope of Flip's offense. But why does the fit matter if the guy isn't all that good to begin with?

If were going to be looking for a backup to Nick Young, I'd much rather just go with Chris Lighty at #34 as a 3 & D guy instead of finding away to trade up for Klay Thompson.

I agree. But I hope he goes high so he pushes more players down to us.

[fishercob]

Dude, Thornton got cut from a horrific Wizards team this year. He tries hard, but he's not a good player. "Bust" isn't the right word b/c of where he was drafted, but his career is mostly done.

[WizarDynasty]

i am pretty sure EG is far away from being fired. McGee pretty much ensures that he keeps his job. EG is a top 3 GM in this league. He cemented his status after Leonsis came on board. I think Leonsis has allowed EG to reach his potential also with the assistance of Realgm. But i trust EG's ability to judge 2 way talent now. My EG hate thread his forever vanished. I hate Tobias Harris as a player by the way.
JVal and Kanter are nice 6th man rotation guys, i wouldn't want them as my starters though. One because of defense can't block shots and i havent' seen him against NBA quality centers or p/f's defensively, the other because he has a 2 inch vertical.
Longterm i like Tyler, followed by Vucevic over both Kanter and J.Val. Vesely way better with Wall vs Leonard.

[FAH1223]

Three days before the NBA draft, here’s a smattering of news, info, and informed opinion culled from conversations with team executives, agents, and others in the know:

• Sources would be stunned if the Cavaliers did anything but use the No. 1 pick to select Duke point guard Kyrie Irving. He’s the perfect package of talent and presence to shoulder the burden of carrying the franchise to new heights after the departure of LeBron James. The Cavs, however, are more than open to trading the No. 4 pick.

• The Timberwolves are comfortable with the outstanding consolation prize that comes with the No. 2 pick, and will get one of the only impact players in the draft in Derrick Williams. Plus, they won’t have to deal with the burden of having to choose between Irving and Williams. The Cavs, after all, could be wrong. The Wolves can’t. The only way Minnesota trades the pick is if someone “blows them away,” according to a source, and that would have to be a trade involving a superstar-caliber player.

• The Jazz and Kentucky point guard Brandon Knight are a sensible match with the third pick, as Utah looks to replace the gaping hole left by the trade of Deron Williams to the Nets. Some execs have gotten indications that Utah also is considering Enes Kanter.

• The Raptors, who agreed in principle Monday with defensive-minded coach Dwane Casey to replace Jay Triano, are sending out signals that they’re all about Bismack Biyombo with the fifth pick, but rival executives are skeptical. One such exec is banking on Toronto taking 6-11 forward Jan Vesely, regarded as the best international prospect in the draft.

• If Toronto passes on Biyombo, some execs believe he could slide as far as 14-18, and the Knicks, with the 17th pick, are known to be high on him. But the apple of the Knicks’ eye is BYU sharpshooter Jimmer Fredette, and New York officials are trying to compute how far they’d have to trade up for him and what it would cost. The Knicks also like Michigan point guard Darius Morris, and one exec said the word Monday had New York looking into trade-up options for Georgia Tech shooting guard Iman Shumpert.

• One rival executive is “almost positive” the Wizards will take Kanter with the sixth pick, or look to trade down. Washington would grab Biyombo with the 18th pick if he’s still available, and otherwise would be comfortable with Kenneth Faried.

• Kings officials are split between Fredette (beloved by ownership) and Alec Burks (favored by the basketball staff).

• The Pistons have a key workout scheduled for Tuesday, hosting Biyombo, Marcus Morris, Tristan Thompson, and Kawhi Leonard. Word among rival execs is that Detroit will take one of those players or Kemba Walker with the eighth pick.

• The Bobcats are said to be all over Chris Singleton with the ninth pick, but would take Marcus Morris if they’re stuck. Nicola Vucevic would be Charlotte’s choice with the 19th pick if he’s still there.

• It’s sort of the opposite situation with the Bucks, who are looking to trade the 10th pick but would take Burks if they can’t.

• The Warriors are enamored of Washington State shooting guard Klay Thompson, which would seem to cast doubt on GM Larry Riley’s denials of exploring trade scenarios for Monta Ellis. Singleton and Biyombo also are on Golden State’s list with the 11th pick.

• Singleton would be the pick for Utah at No. 12 if he’s still there, sources say.

• The Suns appear to be focused on Thompson or Walker with the 13th pick. But this is the area to start thinking about Lithuanian big man Jonas Valanciunas, whose touchy buyout situation is the only thing knocking him out of being a top-five pick.

• The Pacers appear to be comfortable with either Thompson or Fredette with the 15th pick, but if neither is there, they’d take Markieff Morris, sources say.

• Jordan Hamilton appears headed to Philly with the 16th pick, and sources said Monday the Timberwolves have offered point guard Jonny Flynn in a package deal for swingman Andre Iguodala. Philadelphia officials, however, have let it be known that they are not interested in a salary-dump deal for Iguodala and want an impact veteran in return.

• Faried also is on the Trail Blazers’ wish list at No. 21, but the Blazers also are said to be high on Marshon Brooks.

http://ken-berger.blogs.cbssports.com/m ... 3/30162715

[gesa2]

i am pretty sure EG is far away from being fired. McGee pretty much ensures that he keeps his job. EG is a top 3 GM in this league. He cemented his status after Leonsis came on board. I think Leonsis has allowed EG to reach his potential also with the assistance of Realgm. But i trust EG's ability to judge 2 way talent now. My EG hate thread his forever vanished. I hate Tobias Harris as a player by the way.
JVal and Kanter are nice 6th man rotation guys, i wouldn't want them as my starters though. One because of defense can't block shots and i havent' seen him against NBA quality centers or p/f's defensively, the other because he has a 2 inch vertical.
Longterm i like Tyler, followed by Vucevic over both Kanter and J.Val. Vesely way better with Wall vs Leonard.

You're always worth reading WizD! How high is Vucevic's verticle btw? He doesn't fit your usual profile of valuing athletic ability over other skills.

[NbdyBeatsTheWiz]

Man, FAH, this tidbit you posted is music to my ears. Hope every bit of it is true!

• One rival executive is “almost positive” the Wizards will take Kanter with the sixth pick, or look to trade down. Washington would grab Biyombo with the 18th pick if he’s still available, and otherwise would be comfortable with Kenneth Faried.

[sfam]

OK, so its pretty clear to all now that barring us giving up our #18 and probably #34 pick that Kanter is out of the picture. I would still be OK with selecting Jonas Valanciunas and having him come over next year. In fact, considering we'll be getting like half a season, he may be the best pick of the bunch!

That said, my money's on us getting Vesely. And while many here will be wailing and gnashing their teeth when this occurs, I will be hopeful. There are truly worse things we could get with the #6 pick. The guy has serious upside - if he develops a mid-range shot, he could be great. I may want to shoot myself 2 years from now, but I won't be thinking, "here's Pech all over again" on Thursday.

But again, had we wanted Williams or some such, we should have lost more games near the end of last year and then followed it up with a better lottery selection.

EDIT: I'd be OK with trading down to the #9 and #19 or some such as well, but I'm not holding my breath.

[hands11]

OMG! I was watching the 2003 Draft yesterday on NBA TV, and when the Wizards were picking 10th, the ESPN Insider said that there was supposedly a 3-way deal between put in place between Washington, Seattle, and Miami. I believe he said Seattle would've gotten 2 draft picks, Miami would've gotten Kwame Brown, and that we would've gotten the #5 pick, but EFJ said he wanted to keep Kwame Brown! OMFG! We could've had DWYANE WADE FOR CRYING OUT LOUD! Him and Gil would've been very dynamic.

Yep, EFJ cost us Wade and Thibs. Despite the hate he gets from most, Ernie really was trying. But EFJ was Abe's guy and that limited what Ernie could do. Oh what could have been...

After almost a decade of saying this, I just got a tear in my eye reading that.

[7-Day Dray]

OK, so its pretty clear to all now that barring us giving up our #18 and probably #34 pick that Kanter is out of the picture. I would still be OK with selecting Jonas Valanciunas and having him come over next year. In fact, considering we'll be getting like half a season, he may be the best pick of the bunch!

That said, my money's on us getting Vesely. And while many here will be wailing and gnashing their teeth when this occurs, I will be hopeful. There are truly worse things we could get with the #6 pick. The guy has serious upside - if he develops a mid-range shot, he could be great. I may want to shoot myself 2 years from now, but I won't be thinking, "here's Pech all over again" on Thursday.

But again, had we wanted Williams or some such, we should have lost more games near the end of last year and then followed it up with a better lottery selection.

EDIT: I'd be OK with trading down to the #9 and #19 or some such as well, but I'm not holding my breath.

I can still see the Cavs taking Valanciunas. He won't play next year, but if they really think he's better than Kanter (who is a huge risk), why wouldn't they take him and just wait a year, especially since there's a lockout.

[dangermouse]

There must be some confidence in the FO that Kanter could very well be there at #6. With teams like the Knicks looking to move up to get a PG, I highly doubt Utah would risk missing out on a replacment for DWill in this draft by taking a big, theyll take Knight at #3 and and call it a day. I have a feeling the Raps at #5 will go with either Biyombo or Walker. I dont know why the Cavs wouldnt just take Kanter at #4. Wether Kanter goes there or not depends who they trade the pick to, if they do.

I'm happy that they are giving the option of trading down a serious thought if he isnt there though. Its just a matter of finding the right deal. We might be able to fleece a team who want to move up for one of those guards. I'd definitely take a lower pick plus a pick next year.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

.

The Wizards need to trade Blatche. Faried is better by FAR just on rebounding and defense.

I'm not so sure about that CCJ.

I know what Faried did in college but I think its a mistake to assume that a 6-6/6-7 PF's game will automatically translate to the next level.


And if I did draft Faried, I sure wouldn't assume he's a starter and trade Blatche.

This guy broke Tim Duncan's and David Robinson's NCAA records. He rebounded better than Millsap--who also led the country in rebounding 3 straight years. Faried got a crappy school to the NCAAs and beat a Big East team (Louisville). Over the years, he's faced Macklin and a good Florida team. He's faced Aldrich and the Morris Twins. He's faced Cousins and Wall. He's faced many quality teams. Three times this season he had 20/20 games. He led the country in double doubles--with one of the doubles being points. The arguments that he can't come up big against good competition are complete falsehoods.

Wizardspride: I know this guy is better than Blatche and I think the scouts who go on measurables are pretty much a dull lot. They've been wrong so many times the past 10 years that to me, it's like they NEVER learn.

Faried is better than Blatche. Is Rodman a player you'd rather have than Blatche? This kid is close to Rodman-like. As close as it gets.

[pineappleheadindc]

Yup -

I got Faried on my Draft Contest board for the Wiz at 18.

High motor, strong work ethic, doesn't need plays run for him, plays physical D.

What's not to like.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I'm on the anybody-but-Vesely boat, but would honestly prefer either Tristan Thompson or Kawhi Leonard the most, with Tyler Honeycutt at 18. I really think he's got a shot to be a great perimeter player for the team, both offensively and defensively.

I agree, totally.

The guys IMO that can play and who'll stand out are Thompson (I think he's going to be one of the best Fs in the league eventually, a great defender); Leonard (I have faith in guys who rebound exceptionally well relative to their position and his team won games); Brooks (will be a Kevin Martin-type scorer); Faried (who will be the best rebounder his size and a great defender at SF and PF), Fredette (kid will score a ton), Shumpert (defense), Reggie Williams (have no idea why he's getting no hype).

I don't know about a lot of others, but these guys should be pretty good right away.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

It's foolish to base a team's offense on a fast break attack. Fast breaks are rarely available in the playoffs when it matters. Opponents are too well-rested and they scout better.

As much as the Wizards need shooters, I think dominant rebounders and defenders are just as viable picks for this team. High-motor players will keep games close. Shooters can help the offense.

I hope the Wizards pay a lot to get the best veteran, FA, shooters. I've liked Steve Novak since he was at Marquette with Dwyane Wade. He's the type guy I'd like to see the team add just to space the floor.

However, for the offense, I would just as soon see the Wizards try to get long guys who defend and rebound and who'll pass it to Wall and the shot jackers.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

If I had to peg two other perimeter players that I would guarantee to at least become solid rotation players, it would be Kemba Walker and Kawhi Leonard. While this year's draft doesn't project to have a lot of star talent at the perimeter positions, Walker and Leonard are the two who rate above 12 -- which, historically, has been a guarantee of at least being decent.

Wow. High praise for Leonard.

Hollinger doesn't just guess at this stuff. He has backtested formulas that are based on stats rather than opinions. For whatever reason, he believes that Leonard's game will translate very well in the pros. And that presumably doesn't even factor his improvement in shooting that he has allegedly exhibited in numerous workouts.

If Leonard meets' Hollinger's prediction of becoming a "solid rotation player", and his improvement in shooting sticks, he might not be such a bad consolation prize at #6 given that he fills a need perfectly as a 3&D SF who helps on the glass.

Does anybody know Hollinger's track record with these types of predictions?

Hollinger has had pretty astounding success in predicting who will be good and who will bust. The other thing is that his formula has rarely missed on more than a couple of guys - guys who he say will be average who end up great.

Here's his top 20:
1. Kyrie Irving
2. Derrick Williams
3. Tristan Thompson
4. Jonas Valuncianas
5. Kawhi Leonard
6. Enes Kanter
7. Kemba Walker
8. Tobias Harris
9. Alec Burks
10. Jordan Hamilton
11. Bismack Biyombo
12. Brandon Knight
13. Tyler Honeycutt
14. Jon Leuer
15. Nikola Vucevic
16. Chris Singleton
17. Jan Vesely
18. Klay Thompson
19. Norris Cole
20. Iman Shumpert

He HATES: Marshon Brooks

Guys I like a lot who are rarely discussed are Jon Leuer and Norris Cole. I'm worried a lot about Leuer's defense. Cole, OTOH, has great leadership qualities and seems like the type guard Flip would love. He's also a better defender IMO than Wall.

[Hoopalotta]

That Ken Berger piece is the best news we've had in a long time: Colon-Jello likes Vesley, we'll take Kanter if he's there or trade back and we like Faried and Bismack later in the draft? That's hard to beat and Berger's ice cream scooper is a well tested instrument with a fine tally of success.

Also, like just about everyone here, I do not at all understand how Valanciunas spending one crummy year in Europe would potentially knock him from the top of the lottery down to the bottom. What kind of crazy mixed up world is this, anyway? Probably this is much exaggerated.

Otherwise, going by assorted reports, it sounds like the draft board is still all 'effing over the place once you get down to the early-mid lottery. They're still drillin' wildcat wells out by Galveston from the sounds of it.

Other news:

Nick Young is a restricted free agent, but he still is interested in what the Wizards will do this week in the NBA draft. And, in an interview with ESPN The Magazine, Young said that he would like his current employer (until June 30, at least) to draft athletic swingman Jan Vesely of the Czech Republic.

“A 6-11 combo forward who can shoot the ball and do so many other things? Oh yeah, we’ll take him!” Young told the magazine. “I’ve seen some highlights, and he battles. We can even put him at center when we go small. We’re gonna need him.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wiz ... _blog.html

Sounds like Nick wants to stick around and play with Prague Spring. Interesting for Nick to put things in these terms, though; I'm guessing he has every assurance behind the scenes that he'll be back.

[Dr Positivity]

Also, like just about everyone here, I do not at all understand how Valanciunas spending one crummy year in Europe would potentially knock him from the top of the lottery down to the bottom. What kind of crazy mixed up world is this, anyway? Probably this is much exaggerated.

Might not be just 1 year though. It all depends on whether the buyout is a) from his present team Lietuvos but it has to be a year from now at an NBA 500k affordable price, or b) Another Euro team will be buying out Val now, like Rubio's deal

If it's the latter I'd be shocked if it's less than 2 years wait for Val. Rubio had a smaller contract than Val, signed with rich FC Barcelona, who had a financial incentive to get him with his popularity in Spain - and they still locked down 2 years guaranteed. I don't see anyone paying a Rubio like buyout for Valanciunas and not getting 2 years out of it

If it's the former, even a year from now Val will have 2 years left on his present contract - the same length as Rubio's when drafted. If the buyout is the same as Rubio's for those 2 years, even a year from now an NBA team probably can't pay it with the 500k rule any more than Minny could from Rubio. I would bet Val's buyout a year from now is still 3-4 mil, which makes bringing him over in less than 2 years a hell of a hurdle, IMO

[hands11]

DX has us taking him @18

that possibly makes a lot more sense as a draft and stash

can we really add 3 more rookies to the youth we had last
year, especially when you also consider the 'other' youth,
Jeffers and Owens?

Was just on the phone with a question on the conference call
going on now.

Draft picks dont have to be immature. Booker was mature. Wall was mature.
Second, these player are not likely to start the season starting like Wall did.
Third, they are not looking to win it all next year. They are rebuilding so accumulate assets. Isnt this what people always said Boston did before the consolidated.