Political Roundtable Part XII

[Wizardspride]

Read on Twitter

[Wizardspride]

Read on Twitter

[Induveca]

It's exhausting keeping up with Trump's almost daily lies, like the latest one about the press not covering some terrorist attacks. I never thought the day would come when we would have a president whose goal seems to be to divide Americans rather than unite them.

What's exhausting is 90% of front page CNN stories being Trump stories written deliberately to paint him in a negative light for 10 months straight.

Then when he wins anyways, it gets even worse. Let's not pretend there isn't an agenda to delegitimize his administration.

It's as if they forget 60 million people voted for the man. People have caught onto the outrageous media bias, CNN is just digging a deeper hole for themselves.

The saddest part, indu, is that seemingly smart people like yourself have totally bought into the propaganda of a serial liar. This mantra that all the media that disagrees with him is dishonest, fake or somehow a threat to our democracy is being totally overplayed by Trump.

But, like most anything else, if you say it often enough--and if you have the Presidency as a bully pulpit--even people who should know better begin to believe it. Yes, Trump is indeed winning...at least with some people.

32/46 total "headlines" or videos being very negative Trump stories on the front page of CNN isn't my imagination.

That's my issue. This approach are the self-proclaimed elites of society trying to eject someone they didn't want in the presidency.

I've seen it before with Pena Gomez in the Dominican Republic. His opponents were just smart enough to take him out after he won the "first election" (long story let's just say it has been used a few times to force second elections when the ruling oligarchy disapproves of results, and it's usually blamed on an equivalent electoral college issue).

A flurry of news about a man who was a well known media and political figure was suddenly a serial liar, idiot, communist, populist, and drug dealer. He lost the "second" election. He denied these claims forcefully. The ratio on daily newspapers of negative stories was similar. The stories were outlandish, or spun so negatively the attempt to deligitimize him in a racist country before he could take power was too obvious (Gomez is 100% Haitian claims long lost Uncle, Gomez takes regular advice from Hugo Chavez and Castro, Gomez has mental problems, Gomez cohorts are drug dealers, celebrities saying someone should take him out).

I've seen this game before, one party/class wants Trump out, and the vast majority of mainstream media is in seemingly complete cooperation. The ratio of stories is too familiar, the extreme negative slant too emotional and consistent.

I will never support these types of 3rd world passive/aggressive media coups in the US. In the end Gomez mysteriously died at 61 (in his sleep or otherwise depending on the media) as he was about to win the second most powerful position in 1998 - Mayor of Santo Domingo.

Trump, like Gomez legally won the presidential election (luckily for Trump no second vote BS). The US government swore him in as president, with his hand on the Bible. To call for his ouster 18 days after taking office, after 60 million people voted for the man?

Sorry I'm not buying into the BS. I'll wait until his administration has had sufficient time to fail or succeed based on their enacted policies to make my ultimate determination. If not? What's the point of an election or the swearing in ceremony?

Summary: Seen this before, I'm not participating in mass hysteria no matter how loud the negative media/opposition scream. I'll give a legally sworn in president and his administration the ability to succeed or fail on the merits of their enacted policies/laws.

[nate33]

Trump, like Gomez legally won the presidential election (luckily for Trump no second vote BS). The US government swore him in as president, with his hand on the Bible. To call for his ouster 18 days after taking office, after 60 million people voted for the man?

Sorry I'm not buying into the BS. I'll wait until his administration has had sufficient time to fail or succeed based on their enacted policies to make my ultimate determination. If not? What's the point of an election or the swearing in ceremony?

This.

The calls for impeachment are laughable and only continue to discredit those making them. You don't impeach a president because you don't like him. That's not how it works.

[nate33]

Imagine if someone in the conservative media said this about Obama:

“As we know, there's, since 2000, been a couple dozen suspicious deaths of journalists in Russia who came out against the government there. Donald Trump has made no secret about going after journalists and his distaste for any news that doesn't agree with him here. Do you find that this is a dangerous path he is heading down?”

So now we have reputable members of the mainstream media implying that our President is going to assassinate journalists.

[DCZards]

Imagine if someone in the conservative media said this about Obama:

“As we know, there's, since 2000, been a couple dozen suspicious deaths of journalists in Russia who came out against the government there. Donald Trump has made no secret about going after journalists and his distaste for any news that doesn't agree with him here. Do you find that this is a dangerous path he is heading down?”

So now we have reputable members of the mainstream media implying that our President is going to assassinate journalists.

I don't believe for one minute that Trump or anyone in his administration would assassinate journalists or be involved with anything like that. But I think we all know there are crazies out there who would do something like that, especially if Trump continues to vilify the media and reporters and paint them as the enemy.

BTW, how go you think the Repubs and the conservative media would have reacted if Obama had compared Putin's killings to killings by America, like Trump did in the recent O'Reilly interview? No need to answer that question. We both know that the Repubs and the conservative media would have had a collective meltdown.

[nate33]

BTW, how go you think the Repubs and the conservative media would have reacted if Obama had compared Putin's killings to killings by America, like Trump did in the recent O'Reilly interview? No need to answer that question. We both know that the Repubs and the conservative media would have had a collective meltdown.

The interesting thing to me is that Trump sounds more like an old school liberal or a libertarian on that front. Accusing the U.S. of being violent and immoral on foreign policy is straight out of the liberal playbook. When Ron Paul was saying the same thing throughout the primary, liberals and libertarians all over commended him for it. But when Trump says it, suddenly, liberals wrap themselves in the flag and accuse Trump of being anti-American.

[Wizardspride]

BTW, how go you think the Repubs and the conservative media would have reacted if Obama had compared Putin's killings to killings by America, like Trump did in the recent O'Reilly interview? No need to answer that question. We both know that the Repubs and the conservative media would have had a collective meltdown.

The interesting thing to me is that Trump sounds more like an old school liberal or a libertarian on that front. Accusing the U.S. of being violent and immoral on foreign policy is straight out of the liberal playbook. When Ron Paul was saying the same thing throughout the primary, liberals and libertarians all over commended him for it. But when Trump says it, suddenly, liberals wrap themselves in the flag and accuse Trump of being anti-American.

That's a legitimate point...although in the case of Putin there's a slight difference.

Putin literally "disappears" anyone who challenges him. For all of our faults (and we have a ton) we aren't to that level.

At least not yet...and hopefully never.

And fwiw, you didn't answer DCZards' question.

[nate33]

BTW, how go you think the Repubs and the conservative media would have reacted if Obama had compared Putin's killings to killings by America, like Trump did in the recent O'Reilly interview? No need to answer that question. We both know that the Repubs and the conservative media would have had a collective meltdown.

The interesting thing to me is that Trump sounds more like an old school liberal or a libertarian on that front. Accusing the U.S. of being violent and immoral on foreign policy is straight out of the liberal playbook. When Ron Paul was saying the same thing throughout the primary, liberals and libertarians all over commended him for it. But when Trump says it, suddenly, liberals wrap themselves in the flag and accuse Trump of being anti-American.

That's a legitimate point...although in the case of Putin there's a slight difference.

Putin literally "disappears" anyone who challenges him. For all of our faults (and we have a ton) we aren't to that level.

At least not yet...and hopefully never.

And fwiw, you didn't answer DCZards' question.

Republicans would have attacked Obama because Republicans are the "rah rah! Go America! We can do no wrong!" party. They would have seized on the quote as an opportunity to cast Obama as being anti-American. Indeed, I can understand the Republicans who currently have problems with what Trump said.

But if Obama said the same thing, you can damn well be sure that the Democrats would have circled the wagons and defended him. But since it's Trump, they're attacking.

[Wizardspride]

The interesting thing to me is that Trump sounds more like an old school liberal or a libertarian on that front. Accusing the U.S. of being violent and immoral on foreign policy is straight out of the liberal playbook. When Ron Paul was saying the same thing throughout the primary, liberals and libertarians all over commended him for it. But when Trump says it, suddenly, liberals wrap themselves in the flag and accuse Trump of being anti-American.

That's a legitimate point...although in the case of Putin there's a slight difference.

Putin literally "disappears" anyone who challenges him. For all of our faults (and we have a ton) we aren't to that level.

At least not yet...and hopefully never.

And fwiw, you didn't answer DCZards' question.

Republicans would have attacked Obama because Republicans are the "rah rah! Go America! We can do no wrong!" party. They would have seized on the quote as an opportunity to cast Obama as being anti-American. Indeed, I can understand the Republicans who currently have problems with what Trump said.

But if Obama said the same thing, you can damn well be sure that the Democrats would have circled the wagons and defended him. But since it's Trump, they're attacking.

Personally, I think Trump deserves to be attacked for that statement but mainly because it's not an isolated incident.

I mean dude goes out of his way to praise Putin while simultaneously taking shots/antagonizing China...when in actuality, the two countries really aren't that different gov't-wise.


We can debate the reason why but there's clearly some weird affinity Trump has for Putin.

[nate33]

That's a legitimate point...although in the case of Putin there's a slight difference.

Putin literally "disappears" anyone who challenges him. For all of our faults (and we have a ton) we aren't to that level.

At least not yet...and hopefully never.

And fwiw, you didn't answer DCZards' question.

Republicans would have attacked Obama because Republicans are the "rah rah! Go America! We can do no wrong!" party. They would have seized on the quote as an opportunity to cast Obama as being anti-American. Indeed, I can understand the Republicans who currently have problems with what Trump said.

But if Obama said the same thing, you can damn well be sure that the Democrats would have circled the wagons and defended him. But since it's Trump, they're attacking.

Personally, I think Trump deserves to be attacked for that statement but mainly because it's not an isolated incident.

I mean dude goes out of his way to praise Putin while simultaneously taking shots/antagonizing China...when in actuality, the two countries really aren't that different gov't-wise.


We can debate the reason why but there's clearly some weird affinity Trump has for Putin.

I think Trump is much more of a realist when evaluating foreign leaders.

Russia is not America or Western Europe. It does not have the same tradition for freedom and democracy that evolved over many centuries. Democracy will not work in Russia as well as it works in, say, Denmark. The people are different culturally and need a more authoritarian leader. I don't think it's realistic to judge Putin (or Erdogan, or Assad, for example) based on our cultural frame of reference.

Putin remains extremely popular among the Russian people. That means something.

[Induveca]

Trump in typical blunt fashion made a statement pretty much any Latin American would agree with, the US is a warmongering country, and we're droning and assassinating leaders all around the Middle East. Hiding it behind "automated" drones doesn't make it much different.

Take a look at the assassinations and interventions by the US resulting in mass casualties in Latin America:

http://www.telesurtv.net/english/analysis/10-of-the-Most-Lethal-CIA-Interventions-in-Latin-America-20160608-0031.html

These resonate with me the most, the US even occupied the Dominican Republic in the early 60s. It's pretty clear to the entire 3rd world not to cross the US or you'll at bear be crawling with CIA/DEA, or at worst invaded.

The US is actively involved in an all out propaganda and interventionist war in Ecuador currently.

http://www.telesurtv.net/english/news/CIA-in-Ecuador-20160610-0025.html#

So yeah I'd back Trump on his comment. Cultural perception differs in US and Russia but we're both thugs against 3rd world nations which can be pushed around for self gain.

[TGW]

If Obama said what Trump said, he would have deemed unamerican and unpatriotic by the right.

F***kin hypocrites. And you people wonder why no one takes you seriously.

[AFM]

If Obama said what Trump said, he would have deemed unamerican and unpatriotic by the right.

F***kin hypocrites. And you people wonder why no one takes you seriously.

Not me, Dad. I'm objective.

[closg00]

If Obama said what Trump said, he would have deemed unamerican and unpatriotic by the right.

F***kin hypocrites. And you people wonder why no one takes you seriously.

Jaw dropping hypocrisy. If Obama had dissed HIS country while defending Russia!?!? That would have been fodder 24/7 for Alternative Facts RW media with possible impeachment talk, I do not exaggerate.

[Doug_Blew]

If Obama said what Trump said, he would have deemed unamerican and unpatriotic by the right.

F***kin hypocrites. And you people wonder why no one takes you seriously.

Jaw dropping hypocrisy. If Obama had dissed HIS country while defending Russia!?!? That would have been fodder 24/7 for Alternative Facts RW media with possible impeachment talk, I do not exaggerate.

And just imagine if Obama hadn't been wearing an American flag pin on his lapel while saying it.

[nate33]

If Obama said what Trump said, he would have deemed unamerican and unpatriotic by the right.

F***kin hypocrites. And you people wonder why no one takes you seriously.

I supported Ron Paul in 2008 and 2012 and was praising Trump in the primaries when he bashed the Bush Administration for going into Iraq. No hypocrisy here.

I agree that if mainstream Republicans defended Trump on this, they would be hypocrites. But are they defending him? I've heard quite a bit of criticism of Trump from both sides of the aisle about this.

[Doug_Blew]

Trump in typical blunt fashion made a statement pretty much any Latin American would agree with, the US is a warmongering country, and we're droning and assassinating leaders all around the Middle East. Hiding it behind "automated" drones doesn't make it much different.

Take a look at the assassinations and interventions by the US resulting in mass casualties in Latin America:

http://www.telesurtv.net/english/analysis/10-of-the-Most-Lethal-CIA-Interventions-in-Latin-America-20160608-0031.html

These resonate with me the most, the US even occupied the Dominican Republic in the early 60s. It's pretty clear to the entire 3rd world not to cross the US or you'll at bear be crawling with CIA/DEA, or at worst invaded.

The US is actively involved in an all out propaganda and interventionist war in Ecuador currently.

http://www.telesurtv.net/english/news/CIA-in-Ecuador-20160610-0025.html#

So yeah I'd back Trump on his comment. Cultural perception differs in US and Russia but we're both thugs against 3rd world nations which can be pushed around for self gain.

I agree with you that drone strikes are dangerous and did not support Obama for using them.

When did Trump make a comment against using Drones?

[Induveca]

OReilly: "Putin's a killer,"
Trump: "There are a lot of killers. We've got a lot of killers. What, do you think our country's so innocent?"

Every nation in the entire world would agree the US is far from innocent. That's an honest assessment, our intelligence services have likely killed a few dozen people today alone.

This goes back to the hypocrisy of the now disappeared "Russian connections", and how dare Russia spy on the US. The US is a great country, great liberty and a wonderful place to live (generally). But to not recognize our government entities (and leaders) routinely kill dozens of people a day by proxy is willfully ignorant.

[DCZards]

Trump in typical blunt fashion made a statement pretty much any Latin American would agree with, the US is a warmongering country, and we're droning and assassinating leaders all around the Middle East. Hiding it behind "automated" drones doesn't make it much different.

Take a look at the assassinations and interventions by the US resulting in mass casualties in Latin America:

http://www.telesurtv.net/english/analysis/10-of-the-Most-Lethal-CIA-Interventions-in-Latin-America-20160608-0031.html

These resonate with me the most, the US even occupied the Dominican Republic in the early 60s. It's pretty clear to the entire 3rd world not to cross the US or you'll at bear be crawling with CIA/DEA, or at worst invaded.

The US is actively involved in an all out propaganda and interventionist war in Ecuador currently.

http://www.telesurtv.net/english/news/CIA-in-Ecuador-20160610-0025.html#

So yeah I'd back Trump on his comment. Cultural perception differs in US and Russia but we're both thugs against 3rd world nations which can be pushed around for self gain.

I back Trump on his comment as well. Many of us in the progressive--and African American--community have long been critical of this country's role in oppressing and/or killing citizens and leaders in other parts of the world.

My point was (and is) that, while a handful of Repubs criticized Trump's comments, most have been silent. Contrast that to how the Republican Party and conservatives would have reacted if Obama (a black man) had made those same comments. And please don't tell me that Obama's race wouldn't have been a factor. This is still Amerikkka after all.