Political Roundtable Part XIX

[Wizardspride]

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[dckingsfan]

Where are those leaders today? A lot of great men rolling in there graves seeing what this nation has become.

And there you have it... we have a dearth of leadership at the local, state and federal level. And then we wonder why things go wrong

[stilldropin20]

The trouble is, cammac, your quoted statistics don't refute his assertations. It is possible for 90% of the top 90% of the world's wealth to be held by (a relatively few) older people while many other older people are struggling.

It is also possible that, "the remaining 10% of the worlds wealth is also entirely held by individuals over 50 years old," with nobody under 51 in that group at all. Not a one. Even a line without a hook gets a fish once in a lifetime.

I can't say that STD is always wrong, but based on evidence (of which he's offered a ton), I assume that his arguments are fatally flawed by fabricated or misstated facts and sloppy hyper-logic. Someone who has some credibility would need to argue those views coherently for me to give them a serious thought.

PS: 90% of the world's wealth held by 2% of the people (and its variations, including breakdown by age) offered Hands-like as a new piece of evidence flies in the face of blind support of anything Trump does. Neither of these guys is really doing anything about it.

Monte, you are very correct in that i refuse to have the typical boring as unentertaining political conversation. Politics is boring. its dry. its not fun. And that's why people wont engage. For my part i've tried to make it more fun so as more people might be encouraged to engage. I do that because I understand that politicians wont solve our problems. It must start with the people. We change. And then we change them. That's how it works. But just because i think humor makes the conversation more interesting and throwing some gasoline on already polar topics makes more people engage doesn't make me the clown of the conversation just throwing out disingenuous facts. I rarely have done that...if ever. The satire and obvious jokes that I throw out there are just that. And shouldnt become haystacks where a few posters find that needle of glimmering hope to disprove the entire point of the post or thought. And then take the argument even further to discredit the entire poster. Which I've let go unchecked for nearly an entire year. Thats the problem with political dialogue. Thats why i throw so much gasoline on various topics. And that's why people around the US can NOT cover any actual ground. In my own way, Im trying to show folks how that wont further the dialogue. For every single crazy idea that sounds good on one side of the argument, there is another equally and wildly assertive idea on the other side. And we can go back and forth all day long on finding those little needles devoid of fact to punch holes in each others arguments. or we can look for common ground in the truths?

The fact is that around 90% (or more) of the wealth is held by 2% of the population (or more). At this point, this stat has been studied and cited so many damn times that we should not need to go back to kindergarden of political theatre and cite such statements. At some point we just have to accept those numbers, right?? I mean this might be the most cited stat of so called "wealth distribution" stat of the last 15 years. Why are we trying to punch holes in it? O rfindles needles where it wrong?? "he's wrong!! he's a liar!! its 2.1% and 88% of the wealth!! I mean seriously?? come on

Instead we should look for common ground on the topic.

1. DCkings has thoughtfully cited stat after stat about the cost of healthcare, medicare/medicaid and SS both gross and as a percent of GDP. At some point we have to accept these numbers, no?

2. DCkings and others have cited out the costs of health care overall and sometime with demographics attached. .

3. Others have cited various demographics on the costs of healthcare...even costs of planned parenthood. etc. both gross and as a % od GDP. Again, at some point we have to accept those numbers.

4. Tying it together, And at some point we have to accept that "old" people cost the most "to keep" so to speak. And they also have all the money.

5. My point is that old people are strapping the next gen with many "future" bills via the national debt. are we also going to satrap them with paying the old's medical bills in the here and now?

[Pointgod]

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This is insane. How is Trump letting this happen?

[DCZards]

Disagree - and I will do in anedotally. Pubic Unions and local politicians have conspired to put us deeply in debt. Why should the private sector support that? Our taxation policy is full of carveouts from both sides. Why should the private sector pay more than another corporation? Our healthcare system at the rate it is going will take every tax dollar - why should the private sector support that?

Public unions and politicians have "conspired" to ensure that public employees have safe workplaces, liveable wages, access to quality healthcare, and a secure retirement. Those are good things that we all should want for ourselves and each other.

The problem, as you often point out, is that these things are costly. I think we should focus our attention and energy on how we pay for these things...and not on blaming unions and workers for wanting and needing them.

[stilldropin20]

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[Zonkerbl]

This country needs more pubic unions. Make love not war!

[montestewart]

STD, I will admit, you are entertaining, when I have the time.

[dckingsfan]

Disagree - and I will do in anedotally. Pubic Unions and local politicians have conspired to put us deeply in debt. Why should the private sector support that? Our taxation policy is full of carveouts from both sides. Why should the private sector pay more than another corporation? Our healthcare system at the rate it is going will take every tax dollar - why should the private sector support that?

Public unions and politicians have "conspired" to ensure that public employees have safe workplaces, liveable wages, access to quality healthcare, and a secure retirement. Those are good things that we all should want for ourselves and each other.

The problem, as you often point out, is that these things are costly. I think we should focus our attention and energy on how we pay for these things...and not on blaming unions and workers for wanting and needing them.

Agree and disagree. Agreed that we want a good working environment and wages. Disagree that those wages should outstrip what we can pay. Unions will always want (and they should) more than an employeer can afford. It is on the employer to pay only what they can afford. And local officials have failed us in that endeavor - absolutely and utterly in their conspiracy. THAT IS REALLY BAD and we should be PISSED OFF and not good with a bad situation.

If we didn't have pensions - if we paid them like most public employees with 401Ks that are paid in that year so that there can be no finagling, then we would have been fine. But we didn't and there was a conspiracy to pay more and kick the bill down the road.

Its all well to say that paying a living wage is fine. Not so much when you bankrupt a public entity. Then those same folks are angered when the local programs are cut. When roads aren't repaired, schools student to teacher ratios go up, higher ed funding is cut, etc.

So, all good with Scott Walker and what he did...

[DCZards]

Agree and disagree. Agreed that we want a good working environment and wages. Disagree that those wages should outstrip what we can pay. Unions will always want (and they should) more than an employeer can afford. It is on the employer to pay only what they can afford. And local officials have failed us in that endeavor - absolutely and utterly in their conspiracy. THAT IS REALLY BAD and we should be PISSED OFF and not good with a bad situation.

If we didn't have pensions - if we paid them like most public employees with 401Ks that are paid in that year so that there can be no finagling, then we would have been fine. But we didn't and there was a conspiracy to pay more and kick the bill down the road.

Its all well to say that paying a living wage is fine. Not so much when you bankrupt a public entity. Then those same folks are angered when the local programs are cut. When roads aren't repaired, schools student to teacher ratios go up, higher ed funding is cut, etc.

So, all good with Scott Walker and what he did...

The following is a front page story in today's Washington Post. Sadly, this is the kind of thing that can happen when we fail to adequately pay--and respect--public employees...and demean and weaken their unions.

‘It just hurts my heart’: Low pay, big classes are the plight of Oklahoma teachers

TULSA — For the superintendent of this city’s public schools, the signs that her teachers are struggling can be found everywhere.

At a local restaurant, it was a teacher who served Deborah Gist recently. At the Reasor’s grocery, there’s sometimes a teacher behind the register. And then there was the Uber that the school district chief hailed to catch an early-morning flight — a teacher sat behind the wheel, trying to earn some money before heading to the classroom. There was a stack of student journals on the passenger seat.

“It’s just so wrong that it just hurts my heart,” said Gist, who has been superintendent since 2015.

Oklahoma’s teachers are among the nation’s lowest paid, and ­despite the governor and lawmakers approving a $6,100 raise this week, educators pledge to walk out Monday if their full demands — including reversal of budget cuts — are not met. For a decade, little has been done to address the plight of the state’s teachers. It is a situation that has forced many to take second jobs, rely on food pantries and donate their plasma to pay the bills.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/it-just-hurts-my-heart-low-pay-big-classes-are-the-plight-of-oklahoma-teachers/2018/03/30/e5e10eb8-2c88-11e8-b0b0-f706877db618_story.html?utm_term=.90ca89814a59

[TGW]

I'm proud to say a friend of mine, and fellow progressive homie went on............Faux News! And lol did he blow their peabrained minds. They thought they were bringing on neo-liberal corporate shill....naw son.

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[TGW]

DCKings...just wondering. Are you a libertarian?

[Wizardspride]

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[Wizardspride]

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[cammac]

Well MAGA policies on tariffs are already facing countervailing duties from China.
The major target is pork which will have a 25% duty and represents 1.2 Billion in exports by the USA and represents 28.6% of the USA's 4.2 Billion of pork exports. As TPP comes into effect it is likely that Japan will also slap duties on USA pork. If Trump follows through with his tariffs against China the agricultural sector will get hurt the most. The next on the list will likely be soya beans which has 22.9 billion in USA exports. No trade wars are not easy to win and countries target products which will hurt Trump voters the most. The major causes of the great depression were unfettered economic policy, deregulation of banks and high tariffs. Are you beginning to see a pattern?

[cammac]

Disagree - and I will do in anedotally. Pubic Unions and local politicians have conspired to put us deeply in debt. Why should the private sector support that? Our taxation policy is full of carveouts from both sides. Why should the private sector pay more than another corporation? Our healthcare system at the rate it is going will take every tax dollar - why should the private sector support that?

Public unions and politicians have "conspired" to ensure that public employees have safe workplaces, liveable wages, access to quality healthcare, and a secure retirement. Those are good things that we all should want for ourselves and each other.

The problem, as you often point out, is that these things are costly. I think we should focus our attention and energy on how we pay for these things...and not on blaming unions and workers for wanting and needing them.

Agree and disagree. Agreed that we want a good working environment and wages. Disagree that those wages should outstrip what we can pay. Unions will always want (and they should) more than an employeer can afford. It is on the employer to pay only what they can afford. And local officials have failed us in that endeavor - absolutely and utterly in their conspiracy. THAT IS REALLY BAD and we should be PISSED OFF and not good with a bad situation.

If we didn't have pensions - if we paid them like most public employees with 401Ks that are paid in that year so that there can be no finagling, then we would have been fine. But we didn't and there was a conspiracy to pay more and kick the bill down the road.

Its all well to say that paying a living wage is fine. Not so much when you bankrupt a public entity. Then those same folks are angered when the local programs are cut. When roads aren't repaired, schools student to teacher ratios go up, higher ed funding is cut, etc.

So, all good with Scott Walker and what he did...

I think you should look at the full extent of Scott Walkers policies before you praise him!
Just take one he has made Wisconsin a "Right to Work" State. This drives down average wages in the State that also effects the tax base negatively. Any idiot can cut costs without thought on how it affects others all you have to do is look at Kansas and the Brownback experiment.

[FAH1223]

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China taking the long road to solve the petro-yuan puzzle
A number of pieces have to fall into place before the petrodollar moves into second place
By PEPE ESCOBAR MARCH 28, 2018 4:03 PM (UTC+8)

The rise of the petro-yuan may depend on China's domination of the gold market. Photo illustration: iStock

Few geoeconomic game-changers are more spectacular than yuan-denominated future crude oil contracts – especially when set up by the largest importer of crude on the planet.

And yet Beijing’s media strategy seems to have consisted in substantially play down the official launch of the petro-yuan at the Shanghai International Energy Exchange.

Still, some euphoria was in order. Brent Crude soared to $71 a barrel for the first time since 2015. West Texas Intermediate (WTI) reached the highest level in three years at $66.55 a barrel; then retreated to $65.53.

A series of petro-yuan “firsts” include the first time overseas investors are able to access a Chinese commodity market. Significantly, US dollars will be accepted as deposit and for settlement. In the near future, a basket of currencies will also be accepted as deposit.

Does the launch of the petro-yuan represent the ultimate deathblow to the petrodollar – and the birth of a completely new set of rules? Not so fast. That may take years, and depends on many variables, the most important of which will be China’s capacity to bend, tweak and ultimately rule the global oil market.

As the yuan progressively reaches full consolidation in trade settlement, the petro-yuan threat to the US dollar, inscribed in a complex, long-term process, will disseminate the Holy Grail: crude oil futures contracts priced in yuan fully convertible into gold.

That means China’s vast array of trade partners will be able to convert yuan into gold without having to keep funds in Chinese assets or turn them into US dollars. Exporters facing the wrath of Washington, such as Russia, Iran or Venezuela, may then avoid US sanctions by trading oil in yuan convertible to gold. Iran and Venezuela, for instance, would have no problems redirecting tankers to China in order to sell directly in the Chinese market – if that’s what it takes.

How to bypass the US dollar
In the short- to medium-term the petro-yuan will surely boost the appeal of the Belt and Road Initiative (BRI), especially when it comes to the House of Saud.

It’s still unclear in what capacity Beijing will be part of the Aramco IPO, but that will be a decisive step towards the fateful historic moment when Beijing will tell – or compel – Riyadh to start accepting payment for oil in yuan.

Only then the petrodollar may be at serious risk – along with the US dollar as the global reserve currency.

I have stressed before how, at the 2017 BRICS summit, Russian President Vladimir Putin went no holds barred supporting the petro-yuan, specifically challenging the “unfairness” of the US dollar’s unipolar dominance.

How to bypass the US dollar, as well as the petrodollar, has been discussed at BRICS summits for years now. Russia is now China’s largest crude oil supplier (1.32 million barrels a day last month, up 17.8% from a year earlier.) Moscow and Beijing have been forcefully bypassing the US dollar in bilateral trade. In October last year, China launched a payment system in both currencies – the yuan and the ruble. And that will apply to Russian oil bought by China.

Still, the whole petrodollar edifice lies on OPEC – and the House of Saud– pricing oil in US dollars; as everyone needs greenbacks to buy oil, everyone needs to buy (spiraling) US debt. Beijing is set to break the system – as long as it takes.

The petro-yuan as it stands does not provide access to Chinese oil markets. It starts as a great deal especially for Chinese companies who need to buy oil but would rather avoid the oscillations of foreign exchange. Nothing changes for the rest of the US dollar-dominated commodity planet – at least for now.

The game will really start to change when other nations realize they have found a real credible alternative to the petrodollar, and switching to the yuan en masse will certainly spark a US dollar crisis.

What the petro-yuan may be able to provoke in the short term is an acceleration of the next crises in treasuries and bond markets, which will inevitably spill out in the form of a crisis in global currency markets.

That pan-Eurasian resource basket
The game-changing aspect, for now, mostly has to do with the exquisite timing. Beijing has crafted an ultra-long-term plan and yet chose to launch the petro-yuan smack in the middle of a period of sharp deterioration in trade relations with Washington.

The answer to the geoeconomic riddle is bound to be The Golden Moment. Eventually gold will rise to a level where Beijing – by then totally in control over physical gold markets – feels ready to set a conversion rate.

The – Arabian – ‘petro’ side of the petrodollar equation should have been replaced long ago by a priceless, captured pan-Eurasian resource basket. That was what Dick Cheney dreamed of – centering his dreams on the energy wealth of Central Asia and Russia.

That did not happen. What we have instead is shrieking, manic Russophobia – more like a graphic indication of how precarious is the position of Western banking elites. On top of it, with the petro-yuan, China deploys the key weapon, incorporated into BRI, capable of accelerating the end of the unipolar moment.

Yet this is just the initial step in an ultra-high-stakes game. One should keep one’s eyes firmly focused on the interpolations between trade connectivity and technological breakthroughs. The petrodollar may be in danger but is far from finished.

[TGW]

It's only a matter of time until the ships surround the China and Yellow seas....

[gtn130]

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Trump is simply one of the dumbest people on the planet. I legitimately don't personally know a single person as dumb as the president of the United States. Can't lol enough at the rubes who voted for this clown.

SD20, Nate, TGW - you guys should be so embarrassed. Please never vote again.

[dckingsfan]

DCKings...just wondering. Are you a libertarian?

Nope, fiscal conservative/social liberal. I think it has to be in that order. When you don't have sustainable government and live within your means, the folks at the bottom are the ones that get squeezed.

But I guess I have a twinge of libertarian in that if a social program isn't working, I say kill it and don't let it fester. Don't wait until you have something to replace it.