Political Roundtable Part XXVII

[Wizardspride]

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[Wizardspride]

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[Zonkerbl]

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Lying under oath is a crime

[queridiculo]

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Lying under oath is a crime

This would be a great prop bet.

How many sentences or words before he perjures himself.

Nobody out of his ranks want to see him up there, they know.

[pancakes3]

popper: Trump politely asked Ukraine to investigate Biden, not dig up dirt.
reality: In the same way that Clinton politely attempted to keep his personal life out of the media, not lie to Congress under oath? The two statements are equivalent, just biasedly phrased.

popper: Trump released the funds before the fiscal year anyway
reality: FY deadline is not the requirement for breaking the law (per GOA memo); Trump released it after the Whistleblower exposed the scheme; the fact that funds were delayed for no other reason than to exert pressure is the bad act - not how long he held the funds for.

popper: I want a full investigation as much as you all
reality: McConnell and leading R senators have been saying for months now that they don't plan on investigating jack sh*t

popper: Killary was bad too
reality: Hillary has survived FBI/DOJ investigations into Benghazi, Uranium One, and her email server and got cleaner bills of health out of each them than Trump has wrt the Mueller Report and the Articles of Impeachment - and without the intervention of political allies suppressing investigative efforts.

i don't know how many times i have to say it, and who needs to hear it but:

The Senate refusing to give Trump a full and fair trial is not a partisan issue, and it is not ok. Just like refusing to confirm Garland was not ok. Just like ramming through kavannaugh instead of confirming a different conservative justice was not ok. There's a number of other partisan issues that are not ok, but these are completely abnormal, unconstitutional acts. Sitting on your hands bc it's "your team" that's doing it is cowardly.

[Zonkerbl]

I will say it's a little unseemly to call out Popper personally. He responded in good faith and a predictable pile on occurred. Not cool. Popper probably knows in his heart that Trump is a criminal and he's just being a normal human being in denying it to himself - like everybody else Popper believes he's a good person and therefore can't possibly be wrong about Trump. That's a crappy place to be as a person. I imagine he will vote for Trump in 2020 but also be relieved if he doesn't win. Does that make him a bad person or a normal, confused human being surrounded by a whirlwind of disinformation, just like everybody else?

And honestly until *somebody* embraces the idea of taxing the rich to fund a ubi ("we're not giving this to you because you're a poor failure - everybody who wants it gets it"), why would someone like Popper support *anyone*? At least Trump says to the Dems face all the stuff people like Popper wish someone would say. Better than nothing, which is what the Dems have. They allowed unions to die, allowed their racist war on drugs to cause the opioid epidemic, they hypocritically called everybody like Popper who voted for Trump a bunch of deplorable racists. If I'm an ex union guy of COURSE I'm furious with the Dems, especially if I'm not all that familiar with GOP policies, which have actually been ten times worse but no one knows about it because there's no left wing equivalent of Fox News (with the same reach and deep pockets, I mean - I know MSNBC exists but it's not anywhere near equivalent in money and reach to Fox News and all its sister entities like Sinclair).

And then some jerk on a political discussion board calls you out PERSONALLY and when you respond everybody piles on and calls you names.

I don't believe in being civil about Trump. Trump and McConnel and Nunes and Guliani and Jordan and Gaetz and all those evil mfers deserve every name in the book being said about them. They are liars and thieves and criminals and I think Elizabeth Warren is absolutely right when she says there needs to be a wideranging witchhunt - excuse me, investigation, into everyone in the upper echelons of the Republican party, because it's clear a majority of them are co-conspirators. Maybe try and do it in a way that is not an actual witch hunt. Although McCarthy got away with it and Democracy survived. But an investigation has to happen. There has to be consequences.

But Popper's not (necessarily) a criminal for believing their lies. He's the victim of a targeted, evil program funded by billionaires to isolate as many people as possible from easy access to unbiased journalism and brainwash them as completely as possible so that a minority of rich people can control policy decisions in the United States. He didn't *ask* to be brainwashed, and it's not his fault he's not a member of any minority groups that are naturally suspicious of white supremacist nonsense. He *should* know better, of course, but statistically we know that most of the targeted marks fall for it, or it wouldn't be worth spending billions of dollars on it. A little disappointing it's so easy, I guess. Sure it should be possible to brainwash 20% of the American public. But 40%? C'mon America.

I don't know where I'm going with this. Tell the truth as aggressively as you can without being a jerk, I guess. Although I think it's fair to express frustration with how stubbornly people like Popper ignore the obvious truth. And it doesn't take a lot to infer that, based off of what Popper knows and doesn't know that he clearly gets all his information from Fox News and their surrogates. And Popper certainly behaves exactly like a professional troll paid to disseminate lies and propaganda as convincingly as possible would behave. But even if that's true, the lies and propaganda are easy enough to counter on their own merits I think. You can take Popper on his "word" that he is not the victim of a billionaire funded targeted propaganda scheme, and that he is not being paid by billionaires to visit various discussion boards and spread lies and disinformation, and still crush all his arguments, so why call him names. If he is a paid troll then he gets to play the victim and influence other lurking conservatives. And honestly I don't think if the only people rebroadcasting Fox News' lies were paid trolls they'd ever reach beyond 20%. To get to 40% you need people like Popper and Nate who are volunteering to spread the lies and propaganda for free, probably because the underlying message is so satisfying to say out loud it doesn't trouble them that it's all based on lies and hate.

[popper]

Wow. I can see I’m quite popular here As I’ve said from the beginning, Trump is not a good or an honest person. I’ve been consistent with that belief since his election. No one is brainwashing me or pulling the wool over my eyes. I read and watch the same stuff you guys do but probably a bit more because I’m retired. I’m frankly exhausted by trying to respond to 8 or 9 posters at a time and there’s no way I can give thoughtful responses when overwhelmed by the incoming. It’s like drinking from a fire hose.

Good luck to you all. I’ll continue to read and enjoy your posts but will confine my participation to the sports related threads.

[gtn130]

I will say it's a little unseemly to call out Popper personally. He responded in good faith and a predictable pile on occurred. Not cool.

His posts are literally never in good faith. The consistent Neutral Observer performance he puts on while spouting generic Fox News propaganda is definitionally bad faith sh*t posting. Maybe you think he's too dumb to realize how brainwashed he is, but if that were true, why does he bow out the second anyone pushes back on his positions? Pancakes and others have more or less obliterated all of his talking points, and he refuses to change his mind. Should we pat him on the head and tell him he's a good boy anyway?

[gtn130]

Wow. I can see I’m quite popular here As I’ve said from the beginning, Trump is not a good or an honest person. I’ve been consistent with that belief since his election. No one is brainwashing me or pulling the wool over my eyes. I read and watch the same stuff you guys do but probably a bit more because I’m retired. I’m frankly exhausted by trying to respond to 8 or 9 posters at a time and there’s no way I can give thoughtful responses when overwhelmed by the incoming. It’s like drinking from a fire hose.

Good luck to you all. I’ll continue to read and enjoy your posts but will confine my participation to the sports related threads.

popper, can you go a single post without pretending you're a victim? People would be nicer to you if you admitted when you're wrong or actually adjusted your priors based on new information originating from non MAGAverse sources.

[Zonkerbl]

Wow. I can see I’m quite popular here As I’ve said from the beginning, Trump is not a good or an honest person. I’ve been consistent with that belief since his election. No one is brainwashing me or pulling the wool over my eyes. I read and watch the same stuff you guys do but probably a bit more because I’m retired. I’m frankly exhausted by trying to respond to 8 or 9 posters at a time and there’s no way I can give thoughtful responses when overwhelmed by the incoming. It’s like drinking from a fire hose.

Good luck to you all. I’ll continue to read and enjoy your posts but will confine my participation to the sports related threads.

popper, can you go a single post without pretending you're a victim? People would be nicer to you if you admitted when you're wrong or actually adjusted your priors based on new information originating from non MAGAverse sources.

This is what I said in the last paragraph. If Popper is in fact a paid troll, does it help to give him a reason to play victim? Although you're right that playing the victim rather than admitting you're wrong is infuriating. But whatever. I don't think it hurts to pretend Popper is behaving in good faith, since his arguments are so easy to refute.

[dobrojim]

Who said Biden is corrupt?

You implied it although the word you chose to use was dishonest. Sorry if I was imprecise with my terminology.

[Pointgod]

I will say it's a little unseemly to call out Popper personally. He responded in good faith and a predictable pile on occurred. Not cool. Popper probably knows in his heart that Trump is a criminal and he's just being a normal human being in denying it to himself - like everybody else Popper believes he's a good person and therefore can't possibly be wrong about Trump. That's a crappy place to be as a person. I imagine he will vote for Trump in 2020 but also be relieved if he doesn't win. Does that make him a bad person or a normal, confused human being surrounded by a whirlwind of disinformation, just like everybody else?

I hear you on Popper. It must be overwhelming to come into the lions den and having to answer questions from 5-10 posters, but its much easier when you’re living with your own set of facts. It reminds me of my debates with Kobe haters back in the day. Anytime you’d bring up championships as a one factor in evaluating players, someone would bring up Robert Harry has 7 so he’s greater than Kobe and I would know I’m dealing with an idiot. This is similar to how Trump supporters argue. They remove context out of every argument because when you look at Trump in context he’s impossible to support.

Just look at how Popper characterized the Mueller report? Instead of just admitting he didn’t read it so he’s probably not the best person speak on it, he completely mischaracterizes the findings based on right wing talking points. He provides nothing of substance from the actual report mind you, just his own spin.

So yeah I can get it’s overwhelming but he doesn’t help himself with his complete cult like behaviour when it comes to defending Trump. And this is strictly a right wing problem. You have numerous lefties in this thread that support different Democrats in the primary but have often criticized the candidates they support and other Democrats ie Al Fraken and Katie Hill. The only guy that’s full on cult mode is TGW who I take as seriously as I take took STD. If Popper wants better responses he needs to stop posting his biased right wing posting.

[Ruzious]

I will say it's a little unseemly to call out Popper personally. He responded in good faith and a predictable pile on occurred. Not cool.

His posts are literally never in good faith. The consistent Neutral Observer performance he puts on while spouting generic Fox News propaganda is definitionally bad faith sh*t posting. Maybe you think he's too dumb to realize how brainwashed he is, but if that were true, why does he bow out the second anyone pushes back on his positions? Pancakes and others have more or less obliterated all of his talking points, and he refuses to change his mind. Should we pat him on the head and tell him he's a good boy anyway?

That's not fair. He just views things differently - as does a large portion of the US population - which at times drives me crazy, but I have no doubt his posts are in good faith, and he deserves more respect than we (including me) showed.

[popper]

I will say it's a little unseemly to call out Popper personally. He responded in good faith and a predictable pile on occurred. Not cool.

His posts are literally never in good faith. The consistent Neutral Observer performance he puts on while spouting generic Fox News propaganda is definitionally bad faith sh*t posting. Maybe you think he's too dumb to realize how brainwashed he is, but if that were true, why does he bow out the second anyone pushes back on his positions? Pancakes and others have more or less obliterated all of his talking points, and he refuses to change his mind. Should we pat him on the head and tell him he's a good boy anyway?

That's not fair. He just views things differently - as does a large portion of the US population - which at times drives me crazy, but I have no doubt his posts are in good faith, and he deserves more respect than we (including me) showed.

God Bless you Ruzious. You deserve an award for courage and good will.

[Ruzious]

His posts are literally never in good faith. The consistent Neutral Observer performance he puts on while spouting generic Fox News propaganda is definitionally bad faith sh*t posting. Maybe you think he's too dumb to realize how brainwashed he is, but if that were true, why does he bow out the second anyone pushes back on his positions? Pancakes and others have more or less obliterated all of his talking points, and he refuses to change his mind. Should we pat him on the head and tell him he's a good boy anyway?

That's not fair. He just views things differently - as does a large portion of the US population - which at times drives me crazy, but I have no doubt his posts are in good faith, and he deserves more respect than we (including me) showed.

God Bless you Ruzious. You deserve an award for courage and good will.

Not at all. I was as bad as the rest, and you took it so well that I figured I'd better shape up and defang myself. Your fault.

[Pointgod]

I will say it's a little unseemly to call out Popper personally. He responded in good faith and a predictable pile on occurred. Not cool.

His posts are literally never in good faith. The consistent Neutral Observer performance he puts on while spouting generic Fox News propaganda is definitionally bad faith sh*t posting. Maybe you think he's too dumb to realize how brainwashed he is, but if that were true, why does he bow out the second anyone pushes back on his positions? Pancakes and others have more or less obliterated all of his talking points, and he refuses to change his mind. Should we pat him on the head and tell him he's a good boy anyway?

That's not fair. He just views things differently - as does a large portion of the US population - which at times drives me crazy, but I have no doubt his posts are in good faith, and he deserves more respect than we (including me) showed.

That’s an interesting way of looking at it but Popper doesn’t acknowledge the same set of facts. If I ask if you support children in cages and your only response is mmmm Obama, well you haven’t really answered my question. And you’re not acknowledging the set of facts that Trump made family separation an actual policy, ergo children in cages is purposely cruel under Trump and in much larger numbers than under Obama. Is ignoring these facts and clinging to whataboutism really arguing in good faith?

[JWizmentality]

I agree with Zonk and Ruz here. popper at least hasn't jumped ship like nate and he appears to argue in good faith. I will however, agree with the others that say we are sick and tired of all the lies. popper acknowledges that Trump is a pathological liar yet repeats the same lies here..i.e the Meuller Report.

[Pointgod]

Anyways enough about Popper.

I like this idea from Warren. Trump and his administration’s corruption is much deeper than we know. All his bull needs to be exposed. **** get after it

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[Pointgod]

Anyways enough about Popper.

I like this idea from Warren. Trump and his administration’s corruption is much deeper than we know. All his bull needs to be exposed. **** get after it

Read on Twitter

[gtn130]

That's not fair. He just views things differently - as does a large portion of the US population - which at times drives me crazy, but I have no doubt his posts are in good faith, and he deserves more respect than we (including me) showed.

I don't think this is a response to what I'm actually saying. Obviously popper views things differently. My issue is that he's constantly being disingenuous about how much of a Trump supporter he is. He wants to come off as a neutral observer when he's not. This is what I mean when I say he is never posting in good faith.

His impeachment argument started with his didactical "I'm looking at this as a strict constitutionalist" nonsense. Do you think he has any particular knowledge of the constitution as it relates to impeachment or he's done any research on this subject? He's regurgitating partisan talking points like almost everyone else, but he wants you to believe he's neutral and objective.