Official Trade Thread Part XLVI

[prime1time]

Deni was a role player. Nothing more nothing less. The Deni fans on this board aren't rational. Before Deni improved, the trade return is what they thought his value was. After he improved, they feel like he should garner a superstar haul in return. Trading Avdija was a good solid trade. It'll be fun to follow his game in Portland. Simons, Sharpe and Scoot are all ball dominant. If his 3-point shooting regresses, we would have sold high. At the same time, if he takes another jump we'd have to wonder what our management was thinking lol.

[DCZards]

I get that you’re upset, and don’t get me wrong I love your passion, I remember your posts when Beal took his ass to PHX. But just reread your post. Deni is NOT in the same convo as John and Gil. Not even close. So don’t act surprised when posters, not just me, don’t share your sentiments at all. I like the trade, you don’t. And until one of us invents a Time Machine, we won’t know how it turns out until we see how Carrington turns out. Agreed?

It’s not just how Carrington turns out. It’s also what the Zards FO is able to accomplish with the other FRP and two SRPs they received in the Deni trade. Those are important assets.

I can see them using the 2029 FRP to pick up a FRP from a team with multiple FRPs in the 2025 or 2026 draft.

Some of you have said in the past that you wanted a Zards FO that played chess not checkers. Well, here we are.

[Rafael122]

I'm going with the assumption we will be bad the next two years:

2023 - Bilal, Vukevic
2024 - Bub, Sarr and George
2025 - FRP, 2 SRPs
2026 - FRP, swap rights with Phoenix. 4 SRP's
2027 - FRP, 5 SRPs
2028 - FRP, SRP, Portland SRP
2029 - FRP, Portland FRP, LAL SRP
2030 - FRP, Warriors top 20 protected FRP, PHX swap rights on FRP, 2 SRP, Portland SRP

My math says that from 2023 - 2030 we currently have 13 first round picks, and 18 second round picks. Moving forward from next season on, 9 first round picks and 17 second round picks in 6 drafts.

We still haven't traded Kuzma, Kispert or Poole. You wanna talk about asset accumulation, they're doing it, and still have trade chips to add to the haul. Also, blame Shep for putting protections on a draft pick that coincides with two of the stronger drafts in recent memory. The only lane we have now is to be terrible so that we can keep the pick.

[80sballboy]

Read on Twitter

[badinage]

Well there was one last night. There’s a thread full of actual love letters and heart emojis. It’s embarrassing.

Yeah, no. Not even a little embarrassing.

The fact that some of us feel this way — with this depth of passion — says more, I think, about the state of this franchise over 40 years.

There haven’t been many players to get behind. To LIKE. I count three, in the past 20 years. Gil, John, Deni.

This kid worked his ass off, grew, developed, is still developing — and wanted to be here, as the face of the franchise. And was heartbroken when he learned that he’d been thrown over the side of the boat.

THAT’S the kind of player I want on my team, wearing my jersey.

Do I want to have a great team? I do. Who doesn’t? But I want guys like this, too.

And if there isn’t going to be a deep, sustained run of 60+ win seasons and multiple chips — which is my definition of the “generational team” Winger says they’re gunning for — then my fandom depends on being able to get behind a guy, or guys, like this.

I get that you’re upset, and don’t get me wrong I love your passion, I remember your posts when Beal took his ass to PHX. But just reread your post. Deni is NOT in the same convo as John and Gil. Not even close. So don’t act surprised when posters, not just me, don’t share your sentiments at all. I like the trade, you don’t. And until one of us invents a Time Machine, we won’t know how it turns out until we see how Carrington turns out. Agreed?


By the way—you don’t seem to be leaving the possibility open to liking Carrington as much, or even more, as you do Deni. Maybe he’ll be all those things you posted above? Try to keep an open mind.

Oh, my mind is open. Carrington? I hope to love him.

And as for Deni: I didn’t say he’s in the category of Gil and John as a player. But over the last 20 years, Gil and John and Deni are the most lovable guys on the squad — the guys I rooted for hardest, because I could see how much they cared/how passionate they were, and how much they loved the city; and how much they worked on their game. BB could’ve been in that conversation, but took himself out of it — unfortunately.

[payitforward]

We traded deni because someone made a stupid good offer for a guy averaging 14 and 7 on 50 and 31 % on low volume. He improved he played well and someone tossed four picks and a tradable vet at us and we took it. This had nothing to do with not moving kuzma.

Correct that it had nothing to do w/ Kuzma in any sense.
Incorrect that we got "a stupid good offer" for Deni.

I wouldn't call it a one-sided trade -- but you're clearly underestimating Deni. & quoting how many points-per-game he scored is irrelevant for sure.

Deni's TS% last season was 59.7%, btw -- substantially above average. He's only 23. He made a significant jump in productivity last season. & he's still younger than a few guys drafted this week.

[payitforward]

...over the last 20 years, Gil and John and Deni are the most lovable guys on the squad....

Wouldn't you put Gafford on that list too? Great kid!

I'd put Trevor Booker on the list too. & then... in a V*E*R*Y* different way, Nick Young was kind of lovable as well.

[gambitx777]

We traded deni because someone made a stupid good offer for a guy averaging 14 and 7 on 50 and 31 % on low volume. He improved he played well and someone tossed four picks and a tradable vet at us and we took it. This had nothing to do with not moving kuzma.

Correct that it had nothing to do w/ Kuzma in any sense.
Incorrect that we got "a stupid good offer" for Deni.

I wouldn't call it a one-sided trade -- but you're clearly underestimating Deni. & quoting how many points-per-game he scored is irrelevant for sure.

Deni's TS% last season was 59.7%, btw -- substantially above average. He's only 23. He made a significant jump in productivity last season. & he's still younger than a few guys drafted this week.

The ultimate out come of the trade hinges on factors like how much deni progresses or regresses and how much his next contract will be and what we do with the picks, what we get for brogdon and how good Carrington is.
But the general value for deni right now I think was very good. We shall see I suppose

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[payitforward]

We traded deni because someone made a stupid good offer for a guy averaging 14 and 7 on 50 and 31 % on low volume. He improved he played well and someone tossed four picks and a tradable vet at us and we took it. This had nothing to do with not moving kuzma.

Correct that it had nothing to do w/ Kuzma in any sense.
Incorrect that we got "a stupid good offer" for Deni.

I wouldn't call it a one-sided trade -- but you're clearly underestimating Deni. & quoting how many points-per-game he scored is irrelevant for sure.

Deni's TS% last season was 59.7%, btw -- substantially above average. He's only 23. He made a significant jump in productivity last season. & he's still younger than a few guys drafted this week.

The ultimate out come of the trade hinges on factors like how much deni progresses or regresses and how much his next contract will be and what we do with the picks, what we get for brogdon and how good Carrington is.
But the general value for deni right now I think was very good. We shall see I suppose

Well, you've retreated from "stupid good" to "very good," which is progress!

I don't think it was a terrible trade value-wise, with the main problem being that we bought future assets (which are always sold at a discount).

If we'd gotten at least one of this year's Portland R2 picks (both of which they sold, I remind you!) in place of one of the later ones, I'd have thought it was a really solid trade for us.

Say we'd squeexed #40 out of them -- we could have added one of:

Adem Bona
Oso Ighodoro
KJ Simpson
Nikola Djurisic
Cam Christie
Jamal Shead
Antonio Reeves
Harrison Ingram (one of Zards' fave picks)
Tristan Newton or
Enrique Freeman.

There's a lot of potential in that group. In fact, a number of them were discussed here as potential Wizards' picks at 26!!

While we're on the subject, I wasn't in love with giving up our #52 to move from 26 to 24. I don't know near enough about Kyshaun George to know if he'll justify spending capital to move up & get him. Nor do I know, for that matter, that he'd have been gone at 26 (possible Dawkins did know, of course).

That 52 could have brought us one of:

Kevin McCullar (the Ringer had him going at 36!)
Ulriche Chomche or
Ariel Hukporti

Would I like to be looking at KJ Simpson & Ulrich Chomche as Wizards incoming rookies? You bet I would!
How about Bona & Kevin McCullar? Uh huh, I sure would.

Of course, that might have meant we had Terence Shannon or Isaiah Collier in place of Kyshaun George. So, figure that in as we look back. So let's say:

E.g. Terence Shannon, Nikola Djurisic, & Ulriche Chomche ("Chomche's tools are tremendous" says Bleacher Report; "a massive ceiling" comments the Ringer) in place of Kyshaun George. Not bad, says I.

But... it wasn't to be; I'm sure we tried to get 40 from Portland: we couldn't. & a low-cost move from 26 to 24 to get your guy really can't be critricized either.

Still, a guy can dream, right?

[9 and 20]

Looking around the league, there is probably a trade to be made with Detroit. THey just drafted another non-shooting guy in Holland - more or less the same as what they had with Ausar Thompson. Duren can't shoot, Ivey is not great, and Cade is just OK.

Kuz would fit there, tbh, as both a threat from 3 and as some vet leadership. Plus he's from there. Don't know if Detroit would give up a future pick. Maybe? At the very least, they'd probably want Shamet and maybe we swap him for a contract plus a second rounder.

[SUPERBALLMAN]

See Sacramento traded the players I was looking at in a Kuzma deal. Pretty sure we can assume they offered that same package + 13 for Kuzma and the Wizards turned it down

Adrian Wojnarowski: The Sacramento Kings are trading Davion Mitchell and Sasha Vezenkov to the Toronto Raptors, sources tell ESPN. The Raptors are sending Jalen McDaniels to the Kings in the deal
Source: Twitter @wojespn

[gambitx777]

See Sacramento traded the players I was looking at in a Kuzma deal. Pretty sure we can assume they offered that same package + 13 for Kuzma and the Wizards turned it down

Adrian Wojnarowski: The Sacramento Kings are trading Davion Mitchell and Sasha Vezenkov to the Toronto Raptors, sources tell ESPN. The Raptors are sending Jalen McDaniels to the Kings in the deal
Source: Twitter @wojespn

Now keep in mind Atlanta now has some valuable tease capitale and a glaring scoring PF need. Maybe a Kuzma deal for the king and Lakers 2025 picks? Since they clearly aren't in full tank mode.

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[gambitx777]

3 team trade.

Atlanta gets
Kuz and brogdon (they have a tpe that expires on the 7th of July enought to take brogdon)

Gs gets
capella.

Wiz get
Paul, two 2025 firsts from Atlanta (sac protected top 12 and la unprotected), a 26 second from men (top 42 projected) via atl, a 2027 second from lac via atl, a 2026 and 2028 second from from atl from via gs and the protections on the 2030 pick from gs is lowered from 20 to top 8 protected.

Gets Atlanta some help. Kuz fits and replaced Collins which they have struggled to do. Also, a replacement for Murray which they don't have.

GS saves ungodly amounts of tax money here with out giving up a 30 million dollar player spot. At the cost of two extra second round picks and some protections on a pick they already gave out. They also sure up that center spot which an aging Draymond just can cut it at anymore imo.

Wiz get to sort of plus upgrade the beal and deni trades. Making it a better first and we to trade or keep Chris Paul again and getting 2 more seconds for brogdon. Also, valuable 2025 firsts for Kuz and some seconds is good solid value imo. How ever you wanna do the pick math on those you can. But that's a pretty decent trade for every one.



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[AFM]

Well of course I would do that in a heartbeat!!!

[wewillnevertank]

[
Kevin McCullar (the Ringer had him going at 36!)

Wait, is this a forum that takes The Ringer seriously? The website that had Killian Hayes as the top prospect in 2020 and unironically compared Gradey Dick to the sun?

[payitforward]

[
Kevin McCullar (the Ringer had him going at 36!)

Wait, is this a forum that takes The Ringer seriously? The website that had Killian Hayes as the top prospect in 2020 and unironically compared Gradey Dick to the sun?

I don't take any "expert" seriously -- other than nate33 (sometimes).

Moreover, if Kyshaun George turns out well, I will have been wrong in wishing we hadn't traded our #52 pick. & guess what... it won't be the first time I've ever been wrong.

[SUPERBALLMAN]

I wonder what kind of value Brogdon has. Is he still highly regarded around the league?

I wonder if the Wizards could pull a young upside player from a win now team... Maybe something like Jovic from Miami?

https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/8790196

[nate33]

I wonder what kind of value Brogdon has. Is he still highly regarded around the league?

I wonder if the Wizards could pull a young upside player from a win now team... Maybe something like Jovic from Miami?

https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/8790196

I hope we are shopping him like crazy. He has no business being on our roster.

[tleikheen]

Valenciunas to the Wizards .... I dont know what the front office is doing

[tleikheen]

Brogden to Valenciunas as the Wizards go to play