Chicken Littles: Sky done fell! Draft Thread 2011

[theboomking]

Anyone know how they break win-loss record ties to determine the order of the lotto? Sacremento, Minnesota and Washington are all so close, it isn't incomprehensible that we could see a 3 way tie for the 2nd worst record in the league.

[tontoz]

Anyone know how they break win-loss record ties to determine the order of the lotto? Sacremento, Minnesota and Washington are all so close, it isn't incomprehensible that we could see a 3 way tie for the 2nd worst record in the league.

I am pretty sure they just flip a coin for each tie.

[theboomking]

Anyone know how they break win-loss record ties to determine the order of the lotto? Sacremento, Minnesota and Washington are all so close, it isn't incomprehensible that we could see a 3 way tie for the 2nd worst record in the league.

I am pretty sure they just flip a coin for each tie.

I just looked it up and you are right. In fact, in 2009, we had the same record as the Clippers and won a random draw to break the tie. I guess the Clippers got the last laugh.

I'm surprised they don't use head to head record, and point differential, in some order, as a more fair way to break any ties.

[Halcyon]

Anyone know how they break win-loss record ties to determine the order of the lotto? Sacremento, Minnesota and Washington are all so close, it isn't incomprehensible that we could see a 3 way tie for the 2nd worst record in the league.

I am pretty sure they just flip a coin for each tie.

I just looked it up and you are right. In fact, in 2009, we had the same record as the Clippers and won a random draw to break the tie. I guess the Clippers got the last laugh.

I'm surprised they don't use head to head record, and point differential, in some order, as a more fair way to break any ties.

And of course, we actually lost the coin flip last year to Golden State, and we ended up with Wall.

So who the hell knows, haha.

[hands11]

In addition to good D how about the value of increased possessions? More possessions means more second chance points, more garbage point put backs, more defensive rebounds that can be fed to a streaking John Wall who will generate transition scoring opportunities.

No such thing as increasing the number of possessions -- at least not in advanced stats parlance. A possession begins when a team gets the ball and ends when the other team gets it back or the period ends. An offensive rebound extends an existing possession, it doesn't create a new one.

Why would that be ? That doesnt seem to make sense.

If you shoot and score, the possession ends.
If you shoot and they rebound, the possession ends.
If you shoot and it hits the rim and you rebound, the clock resets, you get an extra possession.
Heck, even if you don't get the clock reset you still get more shots at the rim. I can see that not necessarily being called a possession if it is a tip in or something but the bottom line is, rebounds equals more shots on goal. Well as long as there isn't a turnover after the rebound. I think that is the point regardless of what it is called by advanced stats.

[hands11]

One of the points several made at the Sloan Analytics conference is that the most important "mental makeup" thing to consider when choosing players is "love of the game." If a guy isn't PASSIONATE about playing basketball well, you don't pick him and hope he develops the right mindset. He won't. And, he won't reach his potential, and the team will disappoint.

Case in point, Baron Davis. What a waste of talent.

Yep, he's one. Guys like Benoit Benjamin and Joe Barry Carroll come to mind quickly too. John "Hot Plate" Williams. Rod Strickland.

Ahem, Blatche and McGee so far appear to fall into that "not passionate about the game" category.

KWAME

[SUPERBALLMAN]

I keep flip flopping, but if I was picking, I'd have a real hard time passing up Barnes.

From Draftexpress:
"Something that constantly needs to be mentioned when evaluating Barnes' potential at the NBA level are the intangibles he brings. Despite being just 18 years old, Barnes already plays with a tremendous amount of savvy, something that leaves great optimism regarding his future. He's a team player who displays an ideal temperament out on the floor, never getting too high or low in any given moment, and always playing with great self-confidence.

Anyone that has been around him states emphatically that his character is of the highest standard, and whoever drafts him can be fairly certain that he will represent them extremely well on and off the court. Despite the shortcomings mentioned, there is very little doubt that he will continue to work diligently on improving the weaker points of his game once he reaches the NBA. Considering his age, it's not a stretch to say that he still has plenty of room to grow as a player."

From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Har ... z2LWq847Mr
http://www.draftexpress.com

[VictorPage44]

Anyone else think that t. Jones dominated the last six minutes of that west va game? He was involved in almost every play on both ends down the stretch, deflections leading to turnovers, grabbing loose balls, playing defense, assists, free throws. He plays the game like a guard at 6'8 244 pounds. Yesterday i noticed his Very quick first steP on Offense, and that he can defend without fouling when in foul trouble.

Jones' "intangibles" are what I like most about him. His playing style -- he knows how to contribute in a variety if ways. with great anticipation, size, quickness he leaves his mark without scoring, but is still a capable playmaker and very good finisher on the offensive end, he just plays in the post in college and doesnt really get to showcase his wing skillset that much imo. I think His jumpshot will come around as well. Kentucky ran a couple pick and pops for jones to get an open three attempt which indicates that they at least think he can make that shot- if I recall both shots were back rim in and out.

I like jones the most and I realize a lot of that has to do with my familiarity with him vs. Some of the euros/guys that didnt get to play much (perry jones/juror Irving). But I think I'd take jones over sullinger and Williams. Haven't seem too much of williams but he seems to be a scorer primarily and doesn't play the game with the same "do everything" mentality the way jones does. Barnes Doesnt have jones' size. I'd like to see more of him to determine if he could be a number one option on offense, but if he isn't great bordering on elite at creating his own opportunities, I dont think he's more valuable than jones. we need to build around wall whos best when he plays at a fast pace. No better player for that then jones because he will anticipate faster/make the play quicker than most.

[theboomking]

I've watched a lot of Terrence Jones, and I just don't see what you're seeing. I agree that Jones does impact the game with his defense and rebounding, but I think he's pretty average for an NBA athlete, is a ballstopper on offense, which negates his passing skills, is a very inefticient scorer, does NOT have a great first step, and has been destroyed by Calipari on national television for ignoring a called play to take the last shot himself. What did he have, 12 points against WVU? That's heen happening a lot in the latter parts of the season, and Jones has also seemed to be on the floor less than earlier in the season. Whether or not he's the better pro prospect, Knight is the far bette college player. I wouldn't take Jones if Sullinger, Barnes, Kanter, Perry Jones, Or Kyrie Irving were on the board. I'd pribably take Williams over him, and may take Vesely, Montiejunas and Valanciunas over him as well. Furthermore,we would have to get rid of Blatche if we were to bring on Jones. They both seem to hqve the same attitude and frankly, Blatche reminds me of a longer Jones who doezn't handle thw ball quite as well.

[Ruzious]

Anyone else think that t. Jones dominated the last six minutes of that west va game? He was involved in almost every play on both ends down the stretch, deflections leading to turnovers, grabbing loose balls, playing defense, assists, free throws. He plays the game like a guard at 6'8 244 pounds. Yesterday i noticed his Very quick first steP on Offense, and that he can defend without fouling when in foul trouble.

Jones' "intangibles" are what I like most about him. His playing style -- he knows how to contribute in a variety if ways. with great anticipation, size, quickness he leaves his mark without scoring, but is still a capable playmaker and very good finisher on the offensive end, he just plays in the post in college and doesnt really get to showcase his wing skillset that much imo. I think His jumpshot will come around as well. Kentucky ran a couple pick and pops for jones to get an open three attempt which indicates that they at least think he can make that shot- if I recall both shots were back rim in and out.

I like jones the most and I realize a lot of that has to do with my familiarity with him vs. Some of the euros/guys that didnt get to play much (perry jones/juror Irving). But I think I'd take jones over sullinger and Williams. Haven't seem too much of williams but he seems to be a scorer primarily and doesn't play the game with the same "do everything" mentality the way jones does. Barnes Doesnt have jones' size. I'd like to see more of him to determine if he could be a number one option on offense, but if he isn't great bordering on elite at creating his own opportunities, I dont think he's more valuable than jones. we need to build around wall whos best when he plays at a fast pace. No better player for that then jones because he will anticipate faster/make the play quicker than most.

+1 on most of that. He does have a unique style. Some get it, and some don't. He does suffer from tweeneritis, so where he ends up will have a big effect on how effective he is, but I like his skills and potential a lot.

[hands11]

I keep flip flopping, but if I was picking, I'd have a real hard time passing up Barnes.

From Draftexpress:
"Something that constantly needs to be mentioned when evaluating Barnes' potential at the NBA level are the intangibles he brings. Despite being just 18 years old, Barnes already plays with a tremendous amount of savvy, something that leaves great optimism regarding his future. He's a team player who displays an ideal temperament out on the floor, never getting too high or low in any given moment, and always playing with great self-confidence.

Anyone that has been around him states emphatically that his character is of the highest standard, and whoever drafts him can be fairly certain that he will represent them extremely well on and off the court. Despite the shortcomings mentioned, there is very little doubt that he will continue to work diligently on improving the weaker points of his game once he reaches the NBA. Considering his age, it's not a stretch to say that he still has plenty of room to grow as a player."

From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Har ... z2LWq847Mr
http://www.draftexpress.com

This is clearly as important as talent. If anyone knows more stuff like this about the prospects, it would be great if we could get more profiles like this. I had seen an interview with Barners and two other players and something about it just rubbed me the wrong way which is why I have been hesitant to jump on his bandwagon.

Character and personality is going to be really important at this stage since they are looking for a core player to help establish this franchise. They aren't SA or LA.

[SUPERBALLMAN]

I like T.Jones alot also. Him & Barnes may be my top 2. Barnes is by far the better shooter, has the knack for the big play "dagger", and has that star quality this team lacks.

Barnes is more workingman in his style, very good rebounder especially for a 3, better handle than Barnes, has good length & size/strength, and good defensively.

Just off the top could be looking at old ATL sf Steve Smith vs Pippen types. Do you want a top perimeter shooter or more all around game but less big game ability.

[SUPERBALLMAN]

I meant Jones more working man.

[hands11]

So anyone have a breakdown on who we can to evaluate today ?

http://www.ncaa.com/game/basketball-men ... h-carolina

wow, Zeller really go to the line in this game.

[SUPERBALLMAN]

Well now is NC vs Washington, can see Barnes as well as Justin Holiday & Isiah Thomas (2nd round?).

At 5 is GW vs OH St. (Sullinger).

Kansas plays at 8:30 (Morris twins).

9:30 FSU (Singleton?) vs ND (Hansbrough).

AZ (Williams) at 6.

[hands11]

Well now is

12:00 NC vs Washington, can see (Barnes) as well as (Justin Holiday) & (Isiah Thomas) (2nd round?).

5:00 is GW vs OH St. (Sullinger).

6:00 AZ (Williams)

8:30 Kansas (Morris twins).

9:30 FSU (Singleton?) vs ND (Hansbrough).

Yeah, I just stumbled into that game. Thanks. This is my first NCAA game this year. I dont usually tune in until around now.

So Morehead is out so no more watching Faried.

[Ruzious]

So anyone have a breakdown on who we can to evaluate today ?

http://www.ncaa.com/game/basketball-men ... h-carolina

wow, Zeller really go to the line in this game.

I'm a big Zeller fan, but take that game with a grain of salt - considering the competition. Today should be a better test. I LOVE UNC's front court. Interesting fact - UNC leads the nation in rebounds. I'm not sure how much of that is because of their pace and couldn't find what their rebound differential is. If anyone knows a site that has at least team rebound differential rates, please post it. I'm thinking - even though Zeller doesn't get a ton of rebounds, he probably doesn't need to, because his team out-rebounds everyone - so perhaps rebounding is not the weakness for him that it appears to be. Btw Henson - I think that's about a dozen straight dubba digit rebounding games.

[Inliten1]

The more I watch Barnes the less I like him. He just doesn't stand out enough on the court. Occasionally he'll do something good and its like "o yeah, there is that freshman that's supposed to be real good". Aside from rebounding better, his skills on offensive duplicate Nick Young's. Barnes just hangs out at the three point line way too much. Doesn't post-up or drive to the basket as much as you would expect someone of his caliber should do.

He's 18, I know, but if he doesn't do the things that wow you ( timely blocks, dunks, shots, etc..) against inferior college talent like Long Island, what can you honestly expect at the NBA level. My guess is the third or fourth best player on a championship team at best. Kind of disappointing if you ask me.

[Inliten1]

Derrick Williams should be the top pick. If guys like Carmello and Paul Pierce can play the 3, he can. This board overrates athleticism and measurements somewhat. How is it that Stoudemire dominates McGee and Blatche pretty much every meeting. McGee and Blatche are taller and longer and at least McGee should be able to block and or bother STATs shoot every time. STAT dominates because in technical terms he is a baller. He knows how to play the game and wants to demolish the opponent. McGee and Blatche just look like they should be basketball players, but they're not ballers.

Derrick Williams is a baller and will find a way to impact the game at the next level.
And with the second rounder, Keith Benson from Oakland is a project worth a look.

[WizarDynasty]

reminds me of the arguments over juan dixon instead of tayshaun prince. juan dixon was a baller and he would figure out a way to win despite his limitations.