Lather me with blather -- DRAFT thread 4

[Hoopalotta]

Givony knocking Klay Thomspon and Brooks:

RHQ: And on the flip-side? (that is, who's overrated?)

JG: I'm a little bit surprised by how much Klay Thompson has risen up most people's boards. He was a guy who was projected as a late first, early second-rounder for most of his career and he's already in the green room and he's going to be a lottery pick it looks like. Now it's not that he's not a good player, I just wonder if people are going to be disappointed by how limited he is offensively in terms of his athleticism, in terms of his ability to create his own shot, his ability to defend his position, all that. I wonder if that really is the profile of a lottery pick.

On the same note, I'm also surprised by the way that Marshon Brooks has risen up the boards. He was a mid second-round pick six weeks ago, but then he started going through the process, he had good measurements, he had a good showing at the combine, and his stock has really, really risen to the point that he's probably going to be a mid-first-round pick. He might have gone at 45 six weeks ago. I think history tells you that that's always a bit of a red flag.

I watched him play extensively this season in person and on tape and I wonder if he's going to be able to get away with some of the things that he did at Providence, the way he monopolizes the ball, his shot selection, the tunnel-vision he shows, the bad body language, the lack of enthusiasm for playing defense. But I felt the same way about Nick Young, I felt the same way about Jordan Crawford, these guys end up having NBA careers. Whether they're the most efficient players, whether they end up helping their team win games, that's up for debate.

From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Jon ... z1PtmXbgiq
http://www.draftexpress.com

Wow, Brooks reminds him of Nick Young AND Jordan Crawford?

I assume he really means Brooks reminds of the Nick-on-5 era of Young rather than the current off the ball guy. Someone a few pages back was also mentioning Brooks having a slow release; that sounds about right from what I was seeing. He looks well versed in the slowly developing and predictable iso-play with rather ramshackle body control at the point of release. I just don't see how this guy fits in with us at all.

[Ruzious]

On one hand, Brooks is likely a heckuva good value. But otoh, he'd be a poor fit on the Wiz and with Wall. He's a scorer; not a pure shooter. He needs the ball in his hands, and he's not a catch and shoot type. As good a value pick he could be is how bad a choice he'd be for the Wiz.

[closg00]

Some pre-draft Ernie-isms to start the day.

“At this time, yes,” Grunfeld said on Monday evening. “There are conversations at this time of year, as always. In all likelihood, that’s the pick we’re going to have. But you never know.”

“We have an opportunity to get some good players,” Grunfeld said. “Just like with most drafts, it’s going to take time for the players to develop.

“We’ve said that this is going to be a process for us,” Grunfeld said. “We’re rebuilding and we’ve been very transparent with what our game plan is. What we’re trying to do right now is get assets and accumulate as many players as we can. The players will tell us which ones will fit into what we’re trying to do best.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/wi ... story.html

The Wizards already have their Jan Vesely jersey ready for Thursday night.

[closg00]

Draft.nets Overrated/Underrated list

Overrated
Bismack Biyombo
Kyrie Irving
Marshon Brooks
Chris Singleton
Charles Jenkins
Kawhi Leonard
Kemba Walker
Iman Shumpert

Underrated
Derrick Williams
Donatas Motiejunas
Trey Thompkins
Norris Cole
Ravern Johnson
http://www.nbadraft.net/2011-nba-draft- ... underrated

I mixed bag, I don't know how Derrick Williams could be considered underrated.

[Hoopalotta]

Leonard would be worst than Vesely IMO. At least Vesely has some upside. Leonard is a mid-round pick in a good draft. I don't know how that guy all of sudden became lottery material.

Yeah, I think I'd lean towards Vesley over Leonard too, though we're not looking at eventualities that should be greeted by joyous throngs of revelers in either instance.

But it's .74% at the rim in tougher leagues versus .53%. If forced between those two, I'd take the risk on Vesley's tools over Leonard's.

[MF23]

.

The Wizards need to trade Blatche. Faried is better by FAR just on rebounding and defense.

I'm not so sure about that CCJ.

I know what Faried did in college but I think its a mistake to assume that a 6-6/6-7 PF's game will automatically translate to the next level.


And if I did draft Faried, I sure wouldn't assume he's a starter and trade Blatche.

This guy broke Tim Duncan's and David Robinson's NCAA records. He rebounded better than Millsap--who also led the country in rebounding 3 straight years. Faried got a crappy school to the NCAAs and beat a Big East team (Louisville). Over the years, he's faced Macklin and a good Florida team. He's faced Aldrich and the Morris Twins. He's faced Cousins and Wall. He's faced many quality teams. Three times this season he had 20/20 games. He led the country in double doubles--with one of the doubles being points. The arguments that he can't come up big against good competition are complete falsehoods.

Wizardspride: I know this guy is better than Blatche and I think the scouts who go on measurables are pretty much a dull lot. They've been wrong so many times the past 10 years that to me, it's like they NEVER learn.

Faried is better than Blatche. Is Rodman a player you'd rather have than Blatche? This kid is close to Rodman-like. As close as it gets.

Agree 100%

Faried is a better player than Blatche right now. Blatche has more skill and natural talent but Faried is probably going to always be a better player than Blatche. Without measuring a specific teams needs I don't question which one of the two you'll win more games with. I'll just say mentally Faried is well beyond Blatche.

It could be an interesting combination with Faried and Booker on the court.

[Hoopalotta]

Perhaps no player is rising faster than Georgia Tech’s Iman Shumpert, who is suddenly on the Phoenix Suns’ short list at No. 13. The Nets have had a strong interest in him, and he could be the player they’re trying to move up from No. 27 to get.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=A ... aft_062011

If Phoenix likes Shumpert, they should easily be able to get him at 18 with us kicking in the 34th to get to 13.

Also, other team's news:

With an eye on drafting Arizona’s Derrick Williams, the Indiana Pacers have discussed a package including center Roy Hibbert(notes) and the 15th pick for the Minnesota Timberwolves’ second overall pick, league sources said. Nevertheless, the overture hasn’t gained traction in Minnesota.

I would have thought that would get it done; does that mean Javale has more trade value than big Hibbs?

[Rafael122]

DX's latest mock draft: http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=A ... cn-8674693

Interesting to read about the 18th pick, I'd like to trade it for a 2012 pick if it was possible.

[hands11]

I think too many people underrate Jimmer. There's thjis new scout on NBADraft.net, and he's making this series of write-ups of the Top 60 prospects in this year's draft. He's the best scout I know, and his write-ups are exceptional. He has Jimmer as the #5 prospect, and here's his scouting report on him.

5: Jimmer Fredette, 6’2 196, PG, BYU, Sr.

Wow. CRAZY good basketball player for BYU over his last 2 or 3 years. Teams threw all kinds of defense at him, he lost the only other truly talented player on the BYU in Brandon Davies to end his Sr. season, and he still was remarkably efficient for all that he faced, and got them to the Sweet 16. He got national notoriety during his Sr. year, but he really was great his Jr. season as well, some may argue even better. Very well-spoken and seems to be humble and nice. Has some unique stories about his growing up. Plays with a very even demeanor on the court and it’s extremely rare for him to lose composure. Physically, Fredette has good size for an NBA PG, as he’s 6’2 and a shade under 200 lbs with a strong build and an average 6’4 wingspan. Athletically, Fredette shows pretty good quickness and agility, but he’s not an explosive guy at all in terms of leaping or his speed, being just alright in both instances.

Quite the offensive talent, really, really good player on this end. Hard to talk about Jimmer without discussing his UNREAL shooting skills. Possesses a very soft touch, good release speed, and great elevation. Absolutely incredible range, out consistently to around 30 feet. Most range since Salim Stoudamire came out of Arizona in 05. What Fredette particularly special as a shooter if the fact that he can shoot just as well with his feet set, as he does off the dribble or off screens. Real compact shooter off the dribble, who can go from dribble to shot instantaneously. Super confident and must be accounted for as soon as he passes half-court. Makes some shots that make you go “Wow, really?” Took bad shots as a Sr., but definitely was much better in shot selection all of his other years when the team had more balance. Fredette certainly isn’t a slouch as a slasher either. Possesses some strong crossovers and hesitation moves. Is a strong slasher who uses his jump shot to set up slashing lanes. Possesses a solid 1st step, but he likes to utilize crossovers as opposed to a quick 1st step to set his defender up to better attack and get a step on his man. Had a fairly predictable right-left/left-right crossover that guys (mainly Jacob Pullen and Malcolm Lee) picked up on, but he’s added more crossovers to his arsenal since then. The threat of his pull-up jumper makes him extremely tough to contain in isolation. Has effective floaters and runners in the lane. Understands weakside defense and occasionally will beat his man AND shield himself from help D, which is very impressive. Still, he struggles at times with length and athleticism when at the rim and dealing with helpside D. Capable of making impressive lay-ins, shielding the ball from shot-blockers using the rim and the net. Has mastered the scoop shot. Impressive pick and roll player, both as a shooter, passer and slasher. Unselfish player, who some think is a scorer based on how he looked as a Sr. He clearly is more of a PG to me, as evidenced by his Soph. and especially his Jr. seasons were he quarterbacked some solid BYU teams. Capable of finding open shooters in the drive and dish. Shows a high IQ. Will be able to play alongside a ball-dominant guard, and he shows the ability to play off-ball some. Solid transition player.

Fredette’s playing for a team with limited talent forced him to conserve energy, and not play all that hard on this end. Almost always closes out slowly on shooters, and isn’t very good denying dribble penetration. Not going to be much of a threat in the passing lanes. Plays a bit upright and lateral quickness is limted. Never going to be a truly good defender, but he has the ability to be just good enough to defend long enough to were his team D can bottle up his man. And the lessened load of offensive responsibility will also allow him to exert more energy on this end.

Fredette is a gifted offensive weapon who will be a very good NBA player, I have no doubts. His jump shot is great, he was really efficient despite the shots he took oftentimes, and he’s smart. He’s been a PG, with success, and he’s clearly an unselfish player so I have no doubts he’ll play the position well in the NBA. His defense won’t be very good, sure, but he won’t be a liability either. I think Fredette is similar to a Dallas Mavs version of Steve Nash, and I think he’ll go on to have a great career.

He says his best case is a pre-knee injury Gilbert Arenas, his most likely case is a Dallas Steve Nash, and he says his floor is as a 6th man scorer off the bench. But he thinks he'll be a very good NBA player.

If you guys want his write-ups on any other prospects, tell me which prospects you want and I'll post them. He also should be doing one on Williams and Irving fairly soon.

I agree. Jimmer will have an instant impact. This is not as bad a draft as some made it out to be.

So where are you getting those write ups ? Are they posted some place ?

[fishercob]

Some pre-draft Ernie-isms to start the day.

“At this time, yes,” Grunfeld said on Monday evening. “There are conversations at this time of year, as always. In all likelihood, that’s the pick we’re going to have. But you never know.”

“We have an opportunity to get some good players,” Grunfeld said. “Just like with most drafts, it’s going to take time for the players to develop.

“We’ve said that this is going to be a process for us,” Grunfeld said. “We’re rebuilding and we’ve been very transparent with what our game plan is. What we’re trying to do right now is get assets and accumulate as many players as we can. The players will tell us which ones will fit into what we’re trying to do best.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/wi ... story.html

The Wizards already have their Jan Vesely jersey ready for Thursday night.

This was the Ernie quote that jumped out at me most:

“We’re rebuilding and we’ve been very transparent with what our game plan is. What we’re trying to do right now is get assets and accumulate as many players as we can. The players will tell us which ones will fit into what we’re trying to do best."

This strikes me as a departure from Ernie's party line through the years. Ernie has never publicly espoused "asset accumulation" to my knowledge. This would seem to set up a Valanciunus pick, no?

"Ernie, you guys have a developing young center in Javale. Can you explain why you went with another young center at #6? Is this reflective of the organization's confidence in Javale?

"Well, you can never have enough good big men. Just look at Dallas who just won the title with Chandler and Brendan Haywood and Mahinmi in the middle. We think Jonas is going to be a good player and he brings a different type of game than Javale and we'll see how they both develop."

And really, if this is the way we go I'd have zero problem with it -- none. I've been making the Vale comparisons to Chandler and Camby's early careers for a year now, but I recognize the kid's shortcomings and the risk that he may never be enough of a net-gain to be a centerpiece on a great team. If your "worst case" is having two viable young centers (to either play or trade), then why the heck not?

[closg00]

Dupe

[tontoz]

I think Faried would be a waste of a pick. People keep using the Milsap comparison but that doesn't fly. Milsap was a far better offensive player than Faried. He was also much heavier.

And rebounding against weak competition doesn't necessarily translate to the NBA. Milsap ranked 42nd in rebounding among power forwards this past season.

Faried is undersized and nothing special athletically. Not impressed.

[Ruzious]

With an eye on drafting Arizona’s Derrick Williams, the Indiana Pacers have discussed a package including center Roy Hibbert(notes) and the 15th pick for the Minnesota Timberwolves’ second overall pick, league sources said. Nevertheless, the overture hasn’t gained traction in Minnesota.

I would have thought that would get it done; does that mean Javale has more trade value than big Hibbs?

It means we should be talking to Larry Bird. You beat me to it - I posted something in the trade thread.

[hands11]

Leonard would be worst than Vesely IMO. At least Vesely has some upside. Leonard is a mid-round pick in a good draft. I don't know how that guy all of sudden became lottery material.

Because he was the star of a top-10 team mayhaps? I don't expect him to be a star at the next level, but I expect him to be solid -- bits of Deng and Trevor Ariza. I don't see him as an Al Thornton type of bust, but it's possible.

True. For me, I think it is his passing that makes the difference. Shows he is a well rounded basketball player looking to make the right play. Also he rebound out of he zone which is good.

Seem like a piece that would be useful on a team off the bench but I'm not sold on taking him with our first pick. That would be to high. For me, the should go 9-14

[hands11]

i am pretty sure EG is far away from being fired. McGee pretty much ensures that he keeps his job. EG is a top 3 GM in this league. He cemented his status after Leonsis came on board. I think Leonsis has allowed EG to reach his potential also with the assistance of Realgm. But i trust EG's ability to judge 2 way talent now. My EG hate thread his forever vanished. I hate Tobias Harris as a player by the way.
JVal and Kanter are nice 6th man rotation guys, i wouldn't want them as my starters though. One because of defense can't block shots and i havent' seen him against NBA quality centers or p/f's defensively, the other because he has a 2 inch vertical.
Longterm i like Tyler, followed by Vucevic over both Kanter and J.Val. Vesely way better with Wall vs Leonard.

So why the Tabias hate. I think he will be a solid NBA player. Not a star but solid enough to eventually start for the right team and if not that, a solid two way bench SF.

[Rafael122]

I think Faried would be a waste of a pick. People keep using the Milsap comparison but that doesn't fly. Milsap was a far better offensive player than Faried. He was also much heavier.

And rebounding against weak competition doesn't necessarily translate to the NBA. Milsap ranked 42nd in rebounding among power forwards this past season.

Faried is undersized and nothing special athletically. Not impressed.

He's 6'6'' yes but he plays bigger than that, and rebounding and blocking shots are things that always translate well in the pros. He will have a future in this league, a career I mean. At 18, we could do worse.

[fishercob]

WHy is everyone assuming this published report about Indy is true? It would seem to me that the vast majority of published rumors at this precise time of year are complete bunk. I'm guessing this one is too -- and that it likely originates from somewhere in the Minnesota or Williams camps.

[hands11]

OK, so its pretty clear to all now that barring us giving up our #18 and probably #34 pick that Kanter is out of the picture. I would still be OK with selecting Jonas Valanciunas and having him come over next year. In fact, considering we'll be getting like half a season, he may be the best pick of the bunch!

That said, my money's on us getting Vesely. And while many here will be wailing and gnashing their teeth when this occurs, I will be hopeful. There are truly worse things we could get with the #6 pick. The guy has serious upside - if he develops a mid-range shot, he could be great. I may want to shoot myself 2 years from now, but I won't be thinking, "here's Pech all over again" on Thursday.

But again, had we wanted Williams or some such, we should have lost more games near the end of last year and then followed it up with a better lottery selection.

EDIT: I'd be OK with trading down to the #9 and #19 or some such as well, but I'm not holding my breath.

For upside with more risk, Jesely. For the more sure thing, go Morris.

So a few pages back someone posted a list of draft order and said there was massive Brooks hate. What was that all about. I think that was way off. Brooks is going to be a baller.

[Jay81]

if we pick 6 and dont move back, i think we should take Jonas Valanciunus. He will have the most upside of anyone left on the board and it will ensure that we end up back in the lottery next year where we can get a stud. I think alot of people are automatically thinking we are in the lottery next year but I dont see it that way

[Ruzious]

WHy is everyone assuming this published report about Indy is true? It would seem to me that the vast majority of published rumors at this precise time of year are complete bunk. I'm guessing this one is too -- and that it likely originates from somewhere in the Minnesota or Williams camps.

I don't think anyone's assuming anything, but if I were to, I'd assume there's more info to be gleened by the average trade rumor than there is from any quote from EG.