Political Roundtable Part XXX

[Zonkerbl]

In a world where Project Veritas exists, you don't get to whine about Trump being targeted for investigations. Live in a glass house, don't throw stones.

[Kanyewest]

More Republicans have negative view of Biden than of Putin, poll finds. Same is true for democrats and trump

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/feb/25/republicans-biden-putin-trump-fox-news-poll

[dobrojim]

Fun Fact: Donald Trump was impeached for withholding $400,000 in military aid to Ukraine, he attempted to blackmail Ukraine into making-up false things about Biden that he would then use in his campaign. Donald Trump praised Putin's invasion of Ukraine, Donald Trump is a POS.

$400 x 10^6, not 10^3

[dobrojim]

I think if you don't have oil or are not a good candidate for a gas or oil pipeline to Europe you don't have to worry about Putin. He's not trying to recreate the soviet union, he wants that cash money baby

Again, real simple solution - end our dependence on fossil fuels, a lot of our national security problems would be solved.

Putin is an authoritarian in part because being one allows him to also be a kleptocrat.
Like his protege Golfy McBonespurs

[dobrojim]

An investigative probe is not "evidence". And the fact that two top prosecutors just quit the investigation suggests that the investigation is going nowhere.

Trump is the most investigated man in the history of human civilization. He has been investigated by Congress, by every arm of the media, by intelligence agencies (acting illegally), by state prosecutors, and by special prosecutors. The fact that nobody has found anything actionable after 5 years suggests that all these conspiracy theories of Trump colluding with Russia are just made up. But nothing that I say will convince anyone of that. All the liberals on this board will continue to say: "wait until the XXX investigation is complete! Then he will be exposed!"

So I’d like to give myself a better opportunity to understand your thinking.
But I need your help.

Do you honestly think he’s an honest patriotic American who’s really
escaped being prosecuted because he really has never done anything
“actionable”?

All the haters just don’t understand him?

When he says or does things (there’s a seriously long list) that would end the
careers of virtually any other politician, that we just don’t properly understand
what he’s saying?

Please help us understand.

[nate33]

In a world where Project Veritas exists, you don't get to whine about Trump being targeted for investigations. Live in a glass house, don't throw stones.

Yeah, one guy at Project Veritas on the Right's side, and the entire mainstream media on the Left's side. That's fair.

[nate33]

An investigative probe is not "evidence". And the fact that two top prosecutors just quit the investigation suggests that the investigation is going nowhere.

Trump is the most investigated man in the history of human civilization. He has been investigated by Congress, by every arm of the media, by intelligence agencies (acting illegally), by state prosecutors, and by special prosecutors. The fact that nobody has found anything actionable after 5 years suggests that all these conspiracy theories of Trump colluding with Russia are just made up. But nothing that I say will convince anyone of that. All the liberals on this board will continue to say: "wait until the XXX investigation is complete! Then he will be exposed!"

Pursuit of convictions, or lack thereof is neither proof of innocence nor is it proof of guilt.

The idea, that there's a cabal of politically motivated actors out to get Trump is laughable at best though.

Laughable, or sad rather, is the GOPs refusal to condemn Putin's actions.

In fact, it's unbecoming and a betrayal of American values and everything Republicans have purported to stand for.

It's embarrassing quite frankly, and watching the GOP implicitly calling Democrats and liberal policies the real enemies of the United States is bordering on treason.

I'm still waiting for evidence.

The walls are closing in!

[Zonkerbl]

In a world where Project Veritas exists, you don't get to whine about Trump being targeted for investigations. Live in a glass house, don't throw stones.

Yeah, one guy at Project Veritas on the Right's side, and the entire mainstream media on the Left's side. That's fair.

Sure buddy, fox news is definitely not on project veritas' side. They certainly don't use billions of dollars of network assets to broadcast and amplify pv's lies to millions and millions of viewers.

Weak sauce, Nate, you're better than this.

Well, not really, but one can dream.

[pancakes3]

Nate’s dumb. It’s not his fault.

[Wizardspride]

Read on Twitter

?t=SIVc7iQLOSSmzQ6OG600OQ&s=19

[Kanyewest]

Rejecting US evacuation offer, Zelensky says: I need anti-tank ammo, ‘not a ride’

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog-february-25-2022/

[Zonkerbl]

Read on Twitter

?t=dBJJeyfmAY9-wIM6AONhkw&s=19

[closg00]

Fun Fact: Donald Trump was impeached for withholding $400,000 in military aid to Ukraine, he attempted to blackmail Ukraine into making-up false things about Biden that he would then use in his campaign. Donald Trump praised Putin's invasion of Ukraine, Donald Trump is a POS.

$400 x 10^6, not 10^3

Missed some zeros there

[closg00]

Read on Twitter

?t=SIVc7iQLOSSmzQ6OG600OQ&s=19

Yeah, there's a decent chance he will take another country at some because he has correctly gambled that Europe/U.S. will not want to war with a Nuclear armed Russia.....game of chicken.

[Pointgod]

Evidence please.

Let's start with this: https://fortune.com/2022/02/23/trump-cheers-putin-ukraine-invasion-as-savvy-genius-russia/

You find Trump's stance appealing?

Then read this: https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2020/07/10/does-trump-owe-russia-the-supreme-courts-ruling-on-the-presidents-taxes-may-eventually-give-us-answers/

The Brookings Institution not conservative enough for you?

But, my bad, if you want rational discourse with someone, you don't start by belittling his strongest personal attachments. That gets us nowhere. Even if it's true.*

The real problem is that the intellectual tools you want to use to understand the world & action in the world just plain don't do the job. There is no such thing as "America first" as a consistent, functional set of ideas. The opposite, in fact: it's a construct whose only output is the diminution of this country.

* https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/12/21/how-russian-money-helped-save-trumps-business/

An investigative probe is not "evidence". And the fact that two top prosecutors just quit the investigation suggests that the investigation is going nowhere.

Trump is the most investigated man in the history of human civilization. He has been investigated by Congress, by every arm of the media, by intelligence agencies (acting illegally), by state prosecutors, and by special prosecutors. The fact that nobody has found anything actionable after 5 years suggests that all these conspiracy theories of Trump colluding with Russia are just made up. But nothing that I say will convince anyone of that. All the liberals on this board will continue to say: "wait until the XXX investigation is complete! Then he will be exposed!"

Have you not heard of the Republican led Senate intelligence report? are you trying to convince yourself or us that Trump actively working with a foreign country to undermine the election is made up?

I’ll pull out some parts of the report to clearly show how Trump and his campaign are traitors. Knew the about hacked emails that the Russian government was releasing and didn’t tell the FBI, didn’t tell any officials, but rather coordinated with them to take advantage and downplay the role of Russia interfering in the election.

The committee found that Russian President Vladimir Putin was personally behind the hack and leak operation that published stolen Democratic Party emails, and that WikiLeaks — the website that published them — played a key role and "very likely knew it was assisting a Russian intelligence influence effort."

The Trump campaign sought to take advantage of those leaks by asking for advance notice of the WikiLeaks disclosures, crafting public relations strategies around them, and even encouraging "further theft of information and continued leaks."

Former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort passed internal Trump campaign information to a Russian intelligence officer during the 2016 election, a new bipartisan Senate report concludes.

The findings draw a direct line between the president's former campaign chairman and Russian intelligence during the 2016 campaign.

Manafort, who was later convicted for financial fraud crimes, briefed Russian intelligence officer Konstantin Kilimnik on the campaign's polling data and how the Trump campaign sought to beat Hillary Clinton in the presidential election.

https://www.npr.org/2020/08/18/903512647/senate-report-former-trump-aide-paul-manafort-shared-campaign-info-with-russia

Here’s another article that details the Senate report and highlights key facts. It’s long, but there’s zero doubt that Russia was all over the Trump campaign and it’s obvious to anyone who’s brain hasn’t been fried by right wing news that Trump has an obsession with Putin and openly welcomed Russian influence in the election.

https://www.lawfareblog.com/collusion-reading-diary-what-did-senate-intelligence-committee-find

Not that this will change your mind, you’re way too far down the Trump cult but you don’t get away with just repeating lies when there’s overwhelming evidence from Republican led investigations that Trump was under the thumb of Putin.

[nate33]

The committee found that Russian President Vladimir Putin was personally behind the hack and leak operation that published stolen Democratic Party emails, and that WikiLeaks — the website that published them — played a key role and "very likely knew it was assisting a Russian intelligence influence effort."

The Trump campaign sought to take advantage of those leaks by asking for advance notice of the WikiLeaks disclosures, crafting public relations strategies around them, and even encouraging "further theft of information and continued leaks."

LOL. Are you people still mad about Trump's hilarious joke that maybe Putin has Hillary's missing emails and if he does he should release them? Do you honestly think that joke constitutes treason?

Former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort passed internal Trump campaign information to a Russian intelligence officer during the 2016 election, a new bipartisan Senate report concludes.

The findings draw a direct line between the president's former campaign chairman and Russian intelligence during the 2016 campaign.

Manafort, who was later convicted for financial fraud crimes, briefed Russian intelligence officer Konstantin Kilimnik on the campaign's polling data and how the Trump campaign sought to beat Hillary Clinton in the presidential election.

Manafort had a shady past and Trump definitely shouldn't have hired him, but it is far, far from certain that Trump had anything to do with his communications with Russia. The guy was brought in as campaign chairman under duress because Trump needed someone with experience to handle the nomination convention. He was brought on board in May of 2016 and fired just two months later. If Trump had some kind of secret working relationship with Russia, why would he fire the conduit after just 2 months?

I also object to the premise that Trump is somehow culpable in treasonous activity just because Russia may have been responsible for the hack and leak. There has been no evidence whatsoever that Trump was involved in the hack. Russia clearly preferred Trump over Hillary, but that doesn't make Trump a traitor. At worst, Trump was opportunistic, taking advantage of the situation. We had British spies meddling in the campaign directly at the behest of Hillary Clinton, why doesn't that make her a traitor?

Not that this will change your mind, you’re way too far down the Trump cult but you don’t get away with just repeating lies when there’s overwhelming evidence from Republican led investigations that Trump was under the thumb of Putin.

Again, if there is such overwhelming evidence, why hasn't Trump been prosecuted or so much as fined? I didn't read that whole long link you posted, but I skimmed some of it. What I saw was a bunch of circumstantial speculation that Trump was coordinating with Russia because the campaign appeared to be very interested in the Wikileaks leaks. But it's not a crime to hope that dirt being leaked about your opponent helps your campaign.

I'll add that we can see real world evidence that Putin rolls Democrat Presidents at will, but Trump kept him in check. The invasions of the Crimea and Ukraine took place on Obama's and Biden's watch, not Trump's. If Trump was such a patsy for Russia, why was Trump able to keep Putin in check and disrupt his economy with low energy prices, while under Biden, Putin grows stronger?

[nate33]

I'm not here to relitigate the Trump campaign. I don't have the time to argue 1 on 10 with you guys right now. I only posted in this thread in response to queridiculo's insinuation that Republicans are warmongers when I no longer think that's the case. And then PIF sucked me in by saying Trump was literally on the payroll of Putin.

[pancakes3]

nobody gives a fig about your dumb guy thoughts anyway. when people solicit your opinion, it's to make fun of your dumb guy takes. Love the idea that Putin is scared of republicans and waits for dems to win before launching invasions. Simply amazing.

[nate33]

nobody gives a fig about your dumb guy thoughts anyway. when people solicit your opinion, it's to make fun of your dumb guy takes. Love the idea that Putin is scared of republicans and waits for dems to win before launching invasions. Simply amazing.

I see the level of discourse on this thread meets my expectations.

This is actually the type of post that gets people banned, pancakes3. I don't feel comfortable moderating this board since nearly all of you disagree with me politically, but this is totally inappropriate.

[Kanyewest]

Trump has always been against Ukraine Trump campaign guts GOP’s anti-Russia stance on Ukraine

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/global-opinions/trump-campaign-guts-gops-anti-russia-stance-on-ukraine/2016/07/18/98adb3b0-4cf3-11e6-a7d8-13d06b37f256_story.html