Moderators: nate33, montestewart, LyricalRico
WallToWall wrote:SUPERBALLMAN wrote:Would Philly do Simmons, Maxey, 1st for Beal?
Right now, Phi brain trust thinks that a player who hasnt seen the floor this year is worth much more. They think Simmons is worth a handful of 1st round picks and some good, if not, great players in return. Till they come to their senses, nothing realistic can be done.
CntOutSmrtCrazy wrote:SUPERBALLMAN wrote:Would Philly do Simmons, Maxey, 1st for Beal?
I've admittedly been against trading for Simmons, and still stand against my critique of him as a player, but you'd have to jump all over this as the Wizards.
With that said, we are talking about Morey here, and giving us Maxey and a 1st watching how watching Beal's performance this season imagine them offering that kind of pack. I suppose maybe the Embiid window puts a lot more pressure on them, and Beal would likely look a lot better next to Embiid. Then again, why not wait to pursue Harden, who is better?
Frichuela wrote:More chat on Twitter about Sabonis to the Wizards. Following each other on IG means nothing but maybe there are some ongoing negotiations…Problem is who are we giving up in a hypothetical trade…
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Frichuela wrote:More chat on Twitter about Sabonis to the Wizards. Following each other on IG means nothing but maybe there are some ongoing negotiations…Problem is who are we giving up in a hypothetical trade…
?s=21
pcbothwel wrote:3 way trade.
DC In: Sabonis & White (And Min Filler from IND)
Bulls In: KCP, Harrell, Rui, Holiday
Pacers In: Pat Williams, DJJ, TBJ, Two Pick swaps that skirt around current pick obligation to OKC.
- Pacers need to rebuild. Pat Williams and two pick swaps is damn good.
- Bulls need a 2/3 3&D wing (Caruso & DJJ are out for ~season), legit backup C, and a PF
- Wiz need to swing big and a backup PG upgrade.
Sabonis, Gafford, and Bryant isnt a clean fit, but I think it could work as Gafford can guard 4's and be weakside shot blocker with Sabonis. Sabonis would be a 4 and stretch the floor a bit here. When playing with Bryant, Sabonis will flip and guard 4's and then in the post while Bryant stretches.
Again, its clunky and not my favorite, but trying to make chicken salad...
pcbothwel wrote:3 way trade.
DC In: Sabonis & White (And Min Filler from IND)
Bulls In: KCP, Harrell, Rui, Holiday
Pacers In: Pat Williams, DJJ, TBJ, Two Pick swaps that skirt around current pick obligation to OKC.
- Pacers need to rebuild. Pat Williams and two pick swaps is damn good.
- Bulls need a 2/3 3&D wing (Caruso & DJJ are out for ~season), legit backup C, and a PF
- Wiz need to swing big and a backup PG upgrade.
Sabonis, Gafford, and Bryant isnt a clean fit, but I think it could work as Gafford can guard 4's and be weakside shot blocker with Sabonis. Sabonis would be a 4 and stretch the floor a bit here. When playing with Bryant, Sabonis will flip and guard 4's and then in the post while Bryant stretches.
Again, its clunky and not my favorite, but trying to make chicken salad...
CntOutSmrtCrazy wrote:pcbothwel wrote:3 way trade.
DC In: Sabonis & White (And Min Filler from IND)
Bulls In: KCP, Harrell, Rui, Holiday
Pacers In: Pat Williams, DJJ, TBJ, Two Pick swaps that skirt around current pick obligation to OKC.
- Pacers need to rebuild. Pat Williams and two pick swaps is damn good.
- Bulls need a 2/3 3&D wing (Caruso & DJJ are out for ~season), legit backup C, and a PF
- Wiz need to swing big and a backup PG upgrade.
Sabonis, Gafford, and Bryant isnt a clean fit, but I think it could work as Gafford can guard 4's and be weakside shot blocker with Sabonis. Sabonis would be a 4 and stretch the floor a bit here. When playing with Bryant, Sabonis will flip and guard 4's and then in the post while Bryant stretches.
Again, its clunky and not my favorite, but trying to make chicken salad...
If the plan is to keep Beal, I could live with going after Sabonis, I just y don't want Deni included. Rui I can live with though there's a lot to like about him, and I could swallow toughly maybe if Kispert (though I'm start to really like his style of play) was thrown in as well, but to me Deni is a piece you are going to need to be taken serious in meaningful games and to me would be a huge mistake to include him in a deal.
WallToWall wrote:pcbothwel wrote:3 way trade.
DC In: Sabonis & White (And Min Filler from IND)
Bulls In: KCP, Harrell, Rui, Holiday
Pacers In: Pat Williams, DJJ, TBJ, Two Pick swaps that skirt around current pick obligation to OKC.
- Pacers need to rebuild. Pat Williams and two pick swaps is damn good.
- Bulls need a 2/3 3&D wing (Caruso & DJJ are out for ~season), legit backup C, and a PF
- Wiz need to swing big and a backup PG upgrade.
Sabonis, Gafford, and Bryant isnt a clean fit, but I think it could work as Gafford can guard 4's and be weakside shot blocker with Sabonis. Sabonis would be a 4 and stretch the floor a bit here. When playing with Bryant, Sabonis will flip and guard 4's and then in the post while Bryant stretches.
Again, its clunky and not my favorite, but trying to make chicken salad...
In this hypothetical trade, we loose TBJ, Harrell and Hach. We gain Sabonis and White. I dont see how the end result is a better team. We will be thin in the front court, loosing much toughness, a stretch big, and a bench. We do gain, arguably, a better stretch big.
Benjammin wrote:If they trade for Grant it would be so Wizards. To overpay for a guy who really doesn't help you win.
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I actually agree with this. He's better as the 3ed or 4th banana and that's what he would be here behind Brad and Kuz. You can debate on Brad and Kuz being 1 and 2 all day long but having grant, Bryant and Spencer as your 3-5 options is pretty good.pcbothwel wrote:Benjammin wrote:If they trade for Grant it would be so Wizards. To overpay for a guy who really doesn't help you win.
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Yeah. Im underwhelmed, but so long as we dump Bertans and keep Deni.... I can live.
The only hope is that he settles into his role as 2nd/3rd fiddle and becomes a better player.
It wouldnt be unheard of. Barnes, Crowder, Aaron Gordon, and even Tim Hardaway are guys that flashed young in smaller roles, got a big deal to be a more prominent role, saw a drop in efficiency and has since climbed back.
Gordon and Barnes in particular. Barnes flashed with GSW before getting the big contract with Dallas. Didnt live up to expectations and was then moved to the Kings. His minutes and usage have settled back into a 2nd/3rd banana role and looked great the last two years.
Grant jumped from a low usage Bench Player/4th option to a high usage 1st option quickly. Maybe he finds his stride somewhere in the middle for his Prime. The fact that his FT% has dramatically increased shows me something.
Years 1-3=62%, Years 4-6 = 72%, Years 7-8 = 85%. Between that and his Team USA participation, this definitely shows a guy who loves basketball and works.
2 issues clearly stand out with him that should improve in a lesser role:
1) His AST:TOV ratio is ~1:1. He is forced to create more than he should and it hurts his effectiveness
2) His shots at the rim have dropped in half a portion of his shots and been completely replaced with mid range/long twos.
A smaller role would suit him... no matter where that is.
Also, Detroit is trash. He signed there and immediately had Blake Griffin pout and quit on the team. Killian Hayes has been one of the worst players in the NBA and Cade is a few years away.
Beal and Dinwiddie are better than any player they have on that roster. All 3 of our Centers would start for them.
lastemp3ror wrote:Seeing the options being presented to try to improve the team around Beal, I am very underwhelmed. Will the team improve with either Grant or Sabonis, sure. Will this team be a championship team, not even close. Thus proving, the only real option is to trade Beal.
nate33 wrote:lastemp3ror wrote:Seeing the options being presented to try to improve the team around Beal, I am very underwhelmed. Will the team improve with either Grant or Sabonis, sure. Will this team be a championship team, not even close. Thus proving, the only real option is to trade Beal.
Exactly.
This reminds me of the year after we landed Arenas. Arenas was a stud so management panicked and immediately traded all of their future assets to put a win-now team around him. The traded an opportunity to draft Iggy for Jamison. Then they traded an opportunity to draft Curry for Mike Miller. The first trade got us to 45 wins and then we regressed to 41. The second trade got us to 43 wins and then we collapsed.
We did a similar thing after drafting Wall, Beal and Porter. We traded a pick for Gortat and another pick for Morris. We lost out on the upside of guys like Clint Capela or Pascal Siakam in order to get steady vets who didn't move the needle. That team peaked at 49 wins.
If your foundation isn't good enough, you should never trade the future for now. I just don't understand how a team that hasn't won 50 games in 40 years can continue to make the same mistakes.
SUPERBALLMAN wrote:Sabonis intrigues me, he's really good. But I'm not sure is he more of a center of PF?
Anyone think we could land Sabonis AND Grant?
Maybe something with Bertans & Deni to Indy, and Trez, Winston, Todd to Detroit?