Official 2023 Wizards OFFSEASON Thread

[penbeast0]

Never deal a quarter for 3 nickels or two dimes, always deal a quarter for 3 dimes, (unless you have to give up a nickel or more to make room in your pocket to stretch the metaphor to its breaking point) lol.

I see Kispert as a high floor, low ceiling player who is unlikely to be a difference maker anywhere but fills a role every team wants. If you think the odds of one of the 3 players developing into a better NBA player than Kispert is above 50%, you take the deal and work on getting them minutes to see if they can take advantage.

I'm not sure but what Andrew Wiggin is already the better player though neither we, nor OKC needs another 2. They are the same age, similar offensive value with Mann a slight edge in passing, Wiggins is the better playmaker.

It's a problem getting him and Johnny Davis minutes if you still believe in Davis but if you can get Wiggins for Kispert and get a shot at Garunda and Mann or Ty Ty thrown in (and I like them better than PBJ and Rollins from what little I know), I'd do it.

[TGW]

Question: Would you deal Kispert for two of Garuba, Wiggins, Mann, and/or Ty Ty? For 3 (and worry about finding roster spots later)?

Absolutely not. Kispert is a bonafide NBA rotation player on any team. His skillset makes him a contributor, whether it be the Nuggets or the Wizards.

The other guys you listed are not. I don't know why people are in such a hurry to trade Kispert for a bunch of end-rotation players that you can get for a throwaway 2nd rounder. Just stop.

[nate33]

Never deal a quarter for 3 nickels or two dimes, always deal a quarter for 3 dimes, (unless you have to give up a nickel or more to make room in your pocket to stretch the metaphor to its breaking point) lol.

I see Kispert as a high floor, low ceiling player who is unlikely to be a difference maker anywhere but fills a role every team wants. If you think the odds of one of the 3 players developing into a better NBA player than Kispert is above 50%, you take the deal and work on getting them minutes to see if they can take advantage.

I'm not sure but what Andrew Wiggin is already the better player though neither we, nor OKC needs another 2. They are the same age, similar offensive value with Mann a slight edge in passing, Wiggins is the better playmaker.

It's a problem getting him and Johnny Davis minutes if you still believe in Davis but if you can get Wiggins for Kispert and get a shot at Garunda and Mann or Ty Ty thrown in (and I like them better than PBJ and Rollins from what little I know), I'd do it.

Again, these guys are probably going to be available if we just wait. There's no need to give up a quality asset.

Please stop trying to give away Kispert. He is good.

Watch on YouTube

[penbeast0]

May be available, may not be, though having Dawkins as GM is an advantage. And I only want to deal Kispert for a good return such as a potentially better player (which I think Wiggins at least arguably is) or a 1st; not just a late second or cap space.

Wright, Shamet, Gallinari, I am happy to sell cheap though I really like Wright (but he's over 30). Tyus Jones I'd want a premium on.

[AFM]

I wouldn't even trade a quarter for 3 dimes. Basketball is played 5v5. Having a bunch of average players isn't that helpful.

[payitforward]

Question: Would you deal Kispert for two of Garuba, Wiggins, Mann, and/or Ty Ty? For 3 (and worry about finding roster spots later)?

No. Never deal a quarter for a few dimes/nickels/pennies...
We not only downgrade, but it doesnt fit our timeline. If we trade Kispert, it needs to be for a pick or player from the 2023 draft.

A great question!

To be honest, there is not much to choose between Kispert & Wiggins as far as their 2 years of NBA productivity goes. & that's despite the fact that they were #15 & #55 in the same draft.

Plus, if you compare their numbers in both their Junior years in college, there's virtually no difference.

Kispert blew up his Senior season. OTOH, Wiggins played against much tougher competition.

The two guys are also virtually the same age.

Meanwhile, Garuba is only 21. & he's had 2 solid seasons (but only @1200 minutes overall).

I like Kispert, but I'd trade him for Wiggins & Garuba.

[payitforward]

I wouldn't even trade a quarter for 3 dimes. Basketball is played 5v5. Having a bunch of average players isn't that helpful.

Correct -- but it's not at all clear that's the situation here.

[pcbothwel]

Question: Would you deal Kispert for two of Garuba, Wiggins, Mann, and/or Ty Ty? For 3 (and worry about finding roster spots later)?

No. Never deal a quarter for a few dimes/nickels/pennies...
We not only downgrade, but it doesnt fit our timeline. If we trade Kispert, it needs to be for a pick or player from the 2023 draft.

A great question!

To be honest, there is not much to choose between Kispert & Wiggins as far as their 2 years of NBA productivity goes. & that's despite the fact that they were #15 & #55 in the same draft.

Plus, if you compare their numbers in both their Junior years in college, there's virtually no difference.

Kispert blew up his Senior season. OTOH, Wiggins played against much tougher competition.

The two guys are also virtually the same age.

Meanwhile, Garuba is only 21. & he's had 2 solid seasons (but only @1200 minutes overall).

I like Kispert, but I'd trade him for Wiggins & Garuba.

Kispert is better than Wiggins and Garuba was given away despite the fact that there are over 300 players making more than him.

This trade has no direction. The ONLY reason to trade Kispert is to get a higher ceiling player and/or extend our timeline. This accomplishes neither.

[nate33]

Kispert easily put up better scoring numbers than Wiggins.

Kispert averaged 14.1 points per 36 on a TS% of .657 versus Wiggins 13.3 points on .607 TS%. Also, Kispert gets up over twice the number of 3PA's per 36 (6.6 versus 3.4) and makes them at a better clip (.424 versus .393), meaning he is a much better floor spacer making life easier for his teammates. Kispert also commits fewer turnovers per 36 (0.9 versus 1.5) and fewer fouls (1.7 to 3.1)

Wiggins only real advantage of Kispert is that he pulls down a lot more rebounds (5.8 to 3.6). But I believe rebounding need to be analyzed in context. OKC plays smallball all the time with Wiggins at "power forward" almost exclusively. In all the lineups I see on bball reference, there is a center and then 6-6 200 pound Wiggins is at forward alongside either 6-6 195 pound Jalen Williams or 6-4 Isaiah Joe. Of course Wiggins is going to get more rebounds. He is guarding players that play closer to the basket, and he doesn't have taller teammates "stealing" rebounds from him. Meanwhile Kispert is never at PF and he actually plays SG almost half the time; and SG's are often told to ignore defensive rebounding and leak out for a fast break.

Finally, Kispert put up his superior numbers for a lot more minutes (2100 versus 1300) and Kispert started and faced starting level competition for 60% of his games played.

[DCZards]

Fans are often guilty of overrating the players on their favorite team. But sometimes they underrate players on that team. I think we’re seeing some of the latter with Kispert.

[doclinkin]

I'm not sure but what Andrew Wiggin is already the better player though neither we, nor OKC needs another 2.

You mean Aaron Wiggins? Because there may be a debate about Andrew Wiggins, but he plays for Golden State. Aaron plays for OKC.

I'd bet on take Kispert, though I like Aaron Wiggins progression, statistically he looks like he has untapped upside.

[payitforward]

...The ONLY reason to trade Kispert is to get a higher ceiling player and/or extend our timeline....

Actually, you've nailed it.

I was thinking with the metaphor of a scale in mind. If the side w/ the assets you are acquiring is a little heavier than the side with the assets you are sending out, then you make the trade. But that's a lousy metaphor: a trade is a tool. An implement you use to make a desired change. & you can only make so many of them.

Right now, our overall goal is precisely as you put it: "to get... higher ceiling player(s) and/or extend our timeline." This trade doesn't serve either purpose.

[payitforward]

Kispert easily put up better scoring numbers than Wiggins.

Kispert averaged 14.1 points per 36 on a TS% of .657 versus Wiggins 13.3 points on .607 TS%. Also, Kispert gets up over twice the number of 3PA's per 36 (6.6 versus 3.4) and makes them at a better clip (.424 versus .393), meaning he is a much better floor spacer making life easier for his teammates. Kispert also commits fewer turnovers per 36 (0.9 versus 1.5) and fewer fouls (1.7 to 3.1)

Wiggins only real advantage of Kispert is that he pulls down a lot more rebounds (5.8 to 3.6). But I believe rebounding need to be analyzed in context. OKC plays smallball all the time with Wiggins at "power forward" almost exclusively. In all the lineups I see on bball reference, there is a center and then 6-6 200 pound Wiggins is at forward alongside either 6-6 195 pound Jalen Williams or 6-4 Isaiah Joe. Of course Wiggins is going to get more rebounds. He is guarding players that play closer to the basket, and he doesn't have taller teammates "stealing" rebounds from him. Meanwhile Kispert is never at PF and he actually plays SG almost half the time; and SG's are often told to ignore defensive rebounding and leak out for a fast break.

Finally, Kispert put up his superior numbers for a lot more minutes (2100 versus 1300) and Kispert started and faced starting level competition for 60% of his games played.

Yup. You are correct point by point. It would be a poor idea to trade Kispert for Aaron Wiggins & Garuba. My bad.

[Dat2U]

With Kispert, I value the shooting, especially when he's aggressive and can get off a shot (rare). The late 2nd half run with increased usage was encouraging but I would need to see alot more of that to buy in. Offensively I think he works better as a SF where he can do a little more off the dribble against bigger wings vs quicker guards.

The concerns lie in that he brings very little else of real value to an NBA team outside of his shooting thus far. He's not a playmaker or shot creator. He's a ball mover but not a great passer. He's not getting you much in the way of rebounds, steals or blocks. He gets targeted frequently and can't defend any position at an adequate level.

If other teams see value in a guy like that, I'd be all ears.

[AFM]

Dat also thinks he's fine as hell

[badinage]

With Kispert, I value the shooting, especially when he's aggressive and can get off a shot (rare). The late 2nd half run with increased usage was encouraging but I would need to see alot more of that to buy in. Offensively I think he works better as a SF where he can do a little more off the dribble against bigger wings vs quicker guards.

The concerns lie in that he brings very little else of real value to an NBA team outside of his shooting thus far. He's not a playmaker or shot creator. He's a ball mover but not a great passer. He's not getting you much in the way of rebounds, steals or blocks. He gets targeted frequently and can't defend any position at an adequate level.

If other teams see value in a guy like that, I'd be all ears.

Do these flaws mean he’s not good for what he is, or do they mean that he’s not a star? Being a role player is not a knock — 85 pct of the league = role players of one kind or another.

What I hear you saying is, you wouldn’t build around him/consider him a core piece. That’s fair. But then again, he might continue to surprise. Already, I would say he is a better player than what I expected coming into the league. And he hasn’t even played three years.

[payitforward]

Here's an interesting piece on the Wizards need for Center depth (& depth at the 4 as well):

https://wizofawes.com/2023/07/26/3-centers-the-washington-wizards-should-target-to-fill-their-frontcourt-need/

The writer identifies three young players he thinks might be gettable:

Jericho Sims, Zeke Nnaji, & Kenneth Lofton Jr.

I like Sims a lot, & I've opined on Lofton often enough that it's obvious he's one of my favorite long-shot stories. Don't know much about Nnaji.

Anyone think these are interesting ideas??

[nate33]

Here's an interesting piece on the Wizards need for Center depth (& depth at the 4 as well):

https://wizofawes.com/2023/07/26/3-centers-the-washington-wizards-should-target-to-fill-their-frontcourt-need/

The writer identifies three young players he thinks might be gettable:

Jericho Sims, Zeke Nnaji, & Kenneth Lofton Jr.

I like Sims a lot, & I've opined on Lofton often enough that it's obvious he's one of my favorite long-shot stories. Don't know much about Nnaji.

Anyone think these are interesting ideas??

Garuba, of course.

But if we can't find a young guy with upside, I'd be happy with just Muscala. Intentionally leave the position thin so that when injuries inevitably strike, the team is unable to overcome them. That way, they ultimately secure a bottom 4 finish.

The ideal narrative would be that the team plays really well when healthy, but unfortunately, injuries derailed the season. It keeps morale up while getting us lotto balls.

[doclinkin]

Garuba, of course.

But if we can't find a young guy with upside, I'd be happy with just Muscala. Intentionally leave the position thin so that when injuries inevitably strike, the team is unable to overcome them. That way, they ultimately secure a bottom 4 finish.

The ideal narrative would be that the team plays really well when healthy, but unfortunately, injuries derailed the season. It keeps morale up while getting us lotto balls.

The Grunfeld plan. Only with center instead of PG.

[FAH1223]

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