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2025 Draft Thread

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Re: 2025 Draft Thread 

Post#1241 » by tontoz » Sun Mar 30, 2025 10:33 pm

nate33 wrote:
Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:
nate33 wrote:Hartenstein is one of the best defensive bigs in the game. Last year, he was 5th in DRtg and 3rd in DBPM. This year, he is 1st in DRtg and 8th in DBPM.
Would the Wizards have drafted him from a physical standpoint before he became the NBA player he is?

I doubt it.

What's your point?



Actually the point is it isn't hard to find guys like that after they have developed. Just this past summer hartenstein and Poeltle were signed as free agents on reasonable deals.

We could have drafted Ware at 14 instead of Bub and he is a good center prospect. I don't see the point in drafting a center high unless he has shown to be a high level prospect, which Maluach hasn't. I see a lot of hopium but not a lot of production.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread 

Post#1242 » by nate33 » Sun Mar 30, 2025 11:06 pm

tontoz wrote:
nate33 wrote:
Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:Would the Wizards have drafted him from a physical standpoint before he became the NBA player he is?

I doubt it.

What's your point?



Actually the point is it isn't hard to find guys like that after they have developed. Just this past summer hartenstein and Poeltle were signed as free agents on reasonable deals.

I agree wholeheartedly.

I can buy into the idea that Sarr start games at PF alongside a burly center to limit the pounding he has to endure, and then slide over to center at crunch time to give the team the flexibility a switch-everything defense and the spacing of a 5-out offense. But I agree that we shouldn't sacrifice high pick capital to find that burly center. Those guys usually take a long time to develop, and when they finally do, they're not that expensive in free agency anyhow. It's better to just sign a fully developed version of that guy via free agency when we are ready to try and compete for the playoffs. Or, if necessary, trade a late FRP for one.

For now, we could try to sign a stopgap vet for cheap like we did with JV, and then hope that he becomes an asset at the Trade Deadline. Potential guys this summer include Steven Adams, Clint Capela, Kevon Looney and maybe Mason Plumlee (though I doubt it's possible he could play himself into positive value). But I wouldn't break the bank on any of them. I'd rather just play Sarr and Vukcevic, get dominated on the glass, and tank our way to a bottom 6 finish to guarantee one more lotto pick.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread 

Post#1243 » by payitforward » Mon Mar 31, 2025 12:53 am

9 and 20 wrote:...a lesser version of Mobley but better version of Jarrett Allen....

You sure Mobley is a better player than Allen? If so... what makes you think so?
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread 

Post#1244 » by prime1time » Mon Mar 31, 2025 1:38 am

nate33 wrote:
tontoz wrote:
nate33 wrote:I doubt it.

What's your point?



Actually the point is it isn't hard to find guys like that after they have developed. Just this past summer hartenstein and Poeltle were signed as free agents on reasonable deals.

I agree wholeheartedly.

I can buy into the idea that Sarr start games at PF alongside a burly center to limit the pounding he has to endure, and then slide over to center at crunch time to give the team the flexibility a switch-everything defense and the spacing of a 5-out offense. But I agree that we shouldn't sacrifice high pick capital to find that burly center. Those guys usually take a long time to develop, and when they finally do, they're not that expensive in free agency anyhow. It's better to just sign a fully developed version of that guy via free agency when we are ready to try and compete for the playoffs. Or, if necessary, trade a late FRP for one.

For now, we could try to sign a stopgap vet for cheap like we did with JV, and then hope that he becomes an asset at the Trade Deadline. Potential guys this summer include Steven Adams, Clint Capela, Kevon Looney and maybe Mason Plumlee (though I doubt it's possible he could play himself into positive value). But I wouldn't break the bank on any of them. I'd rather just play Sarr and Vukcevic, get dominated on the glass, and tank our way to a bottom 6 finish to guarantee one more lotto pick.

The issue I have with this approach is where do the Wizards separate themselves? You have 5 starting positions. Sarr is locked in at the 4. Even if he works out it's likely he'll never be as good as Mobley, Chet, Wemby etc. Because we have Sarr at the 4 you're now automatically writing off the 5 position and saying let's just get a random journeyman to play the 5. Ok. So now we are down to 3 positions. And PG, SG and SF. So we are supposed to find some combination of those 3 positions to out produce their counterparts on other teams. We can't afford to just write off the center position. And we can't afford to just copy what everyone else is doing. We have to look for the new thing.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread 

Post#1245 » by doclinkin » Mon Mar 31, 2025 1:51 am

dobrojim wrote:According to Tankathon, we currently have the 42nd and 48th picks in this draft.


Show me how and I’ll believe it. But Tankathon never updated their mock after the trade deadline.

What’s more likely. That Tankathon has more correct info than the nba press releases and David Aldridge.

Or that they don’t know where those picks are going so they didn’t change their chart.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread 

Post#1246 » by tontoz » Mon Mar 31, 2025 1:57 am

prime1time wrote:
The issue I have with this approach is where do the Wizards separate themselves? You have 5 starting positions. Sarr is locked in at the 4.


Nobody on this roster is " locked in". Right now we have a bunch of bad players. The only young guy who looks like he can become good in the near future is Kyshawn.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread 

Post#1247 » by 9 and 20 » Mon Mar 31, 2025 2:51 am

payitforward wrote:
9 and 20 wrote:...a lesser version of Mobley but better version of Jarrett Allen....

You sure Mobley is a better player than Allen? If so... what makes you think so?


Eye test and Mobley was a higher draft pick.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread 

Post#1248 » by 9 and 20 » Mon Mar 31, 2025 2:52 am

tontoz wrote:
prime1time wrote:
The issue I have with this approach is where do the Wizards separate themselves? You have 5 starting positions. Sarr is locked in at the 4.


Nobody on this roster is " locked in". Right now we have a bunch of bad players. The only young guy who looks like he can become good in the near future is Kyshawn.


Time to rebuild! Enough of this treadmill. They need to get serious about the process.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread 

Post#1249 » by MDStar » Mon Mar 31, 2025 2:55 am

What do we get is Memphis actually falls into the play-in and loses? From what I can see, the pick we got from them is lottery protected but I don’t know what happens afterwards.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread 

Post#1250 » by DCZards » Mon Mar 31, 2025 3:06 am

nate33 wrote:I agree wholeheartedly.

I can buy into the idea that Sarr start games at PF alongside a burly center to limit the pounding he has to endure, and then slide over to center at crunch time to give the team the flexibility a switch-everything defense and the spacing of a 5-out offense. But I agree that we shouldn't sacrifice high pick capital to find that burly center. Those guys usually take a long time to develop, and when they finally do, they're not that expensive in free agency anyhow. It's better to just sign a fully developed version of that guy via free agency when we are ready to try and compete for the playoffs. Or, if necessary, trade a late FRP for one.

For now, we could try to sign a stopgap vet for cheap like we did with JV, and then hope that he becomes an asset at the Trade Deadline. Potential guys this summer include Steven Adams, Clint Capela, Kevon Looney and maybe Mason Plumlee (though I doubt it's possible he could play himself into positive value). But I wouldn't break the bank on any of them. I'd rather just play Sarr and Vukcevic, get dominated on the glass, and tank our way to a bottom 6 finish to guarantee one more lotto pick.

I agree for the most part that a you can find a good big to play alongside Sarr amongst the inexpensive free agents. But I’ve come around to the thinking that, if I’m drafting 4-6, Malauch just might be both the BPA and someone who can team with Sarr and Bilal to form an awesome defensive frontline. Not to mention the defensive prowess of Kyshawn.

I’d draft Malauch and hope for the offensive development of Bub and AJ, the continued scoring of Poole, and the possibility of drafting more perimeter scorer with our second FRP this year or in the 2026 draft.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread 

Post#1251 » by doclinkin » Mon Mar 31, 2025 3:11 am

tontoz wrote:I don't see the point in drafting a center high unless he has shown to be a high level prospect, which Maluach hasn't. I see a lot of hopium but not a lot of production.


How not. He's only playing 20 mins a game but his advanced numbers are pretty eye-bugging. It's not in his blocks and steals, its in the on/off numbers. Players don't drive the middle when he is there. FG% drop when he is in the paint. Now we see him playing better in the tourney, and as the season grew longer he's gotten better. Numbers improved, minutes increased.

But no production? Who else is hitting 76% from 2. With a 73% True Shooting and EFG. That's unstoppable.

One of the youngest players in the draft, only been playing for 3 years, naturally he will have holes in his game. But upside matters. there's only one player bigger in the game at the NBA level. 4.0 GPA at Duke. 76% FT shooter, when usually the 7+ footers miss more due to the flat arc on their FT shots. His rebounding numbers are lower on defense in part because they have him guarding the perimeter. Centers don't do that at the NCAA level.

You want production draft a senior. But what Maluach can become is not replicable by a generic plug in Big. Wait til the measurements come out. Then watch him leap up the mocks. I would not be surprised to see him taken at #3. Too big, too nimble, too smart, too physical and competitive. Learning very quickly. I would have taken him over Sarr last year. Even #1 overall.

Dat echoes what I have said. Run a Cav's style offense. But the FT% suggests Maluach will be able to develop a corner 3 in the way that Jarrett Allen hasn't. Adding that Brook Lopez wrinkle to the game. With better mobility and hands.

On defense. Rebounding, fine. Let our 2nd line rebounders clean up the misses these two force. I think Maluach grabs more when he is full time interior player. But if not: A rebounder is easy to find. Til his hands and smarts catch up with his delayed reflexes. Repetitions should fix that in his case. It's minutes not aptitude that holds him back here. The fact that he will struggle at first is a feature not a bug. We get our defensive core early, then build offense on top of that. Every year has ballhandling guards who can shoot from outside, drive to the interior. Not every year has the 2nd tallest reach in the NBA, with a brain and wheels to move.

Yes it will take time for him to reach the potential he shows. And his upside on defense is higher than his likely achievables on offense. But in a postseason run, the sort of D he could allow a team to play would show up in the W/L column more significantly than the box score numbers suggest.

edit to add: check Maluach's movement on this defensive sequence. And how every time they tried to penetrate he was waiting and they forced a pass elsewhere:

https://www.reddit.com/r/CollegeBasketball/comments/1jn6nya/dukes_defensive_rotations_in_a_possession_from/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread 

Post#1252 » by doclinkin » Mon Mar 31, 2025 3:14 am

MDStar wrote:What do we get is Memphis actually falls into the play-in and loses? From what I can see, the pick we got from them is lottery protected but I don’t know what happens afterwards.


We lose the pick. That's it.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread 

Post#1253 » by nate33 » Mon Mar 31, 2025 4:21 am

I’m not opposed to drafting Maluach. But I’m not wild about the Sarr/Maluach as a tandem. I think it’s too much invested in players who are 3rd options on offense at best. Ultimately it’s hard to pay two guys like that when we would still need to find and eventually pay our #1 option scorer and our #2 option scorer.

If we draft Maluach, I’d be keeping an eye out for a Sarr trade where we turn him into someone who projects as a #2 option scorer.

I wouldn’t panic and make a trade right away or anything, but I’d keep an eye out, unless one of the bigs made a significant leap in offensive ability.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread 

Post#1254 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Mon Mar 31, 2025 4:25 am

nate33 wrote:
Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:
nate33 wrote:Hartenstein is one of the best defensive bigs in the game. Last year, he was 5th in DRtg and 3rd in DBPM. This year, he is 1st in DRtg and 8th in DBPM.
Would the Wizards have drafted him from a physical standpoint before he became the NBA player he is?

I doubt it.

What's your point?
It had to do with Hartenstein not being a Wizards kind of player, someone they'd never draft because of agility and measurables at draft time.

I was drawing an analogy. He's really good, even if he's a defensive player.

The player I'm sick of talking about was the comparison. He's going to be solid defensively, and people will be hearing me say I tried to tell you.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread 

Post#1255 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Mon Mar 31, 2025 4:26 am

nate33 wrote:
prime1time wrote:
nate33 wrote:Long for their position, average or better athleticism, and a good work ethic. They want sound defenders and they're less concerned with polished offensive skills, figuring that can teach that over time. It's the OKC formula.

OKC formula requires an elite 3 level scorer. Who is ours?

Every team requires an elite scorer. That's the hardest thing to find - particularly one who is not a defensive liability.

We don't have one yet.
Queen is an elite scorer.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread 

Post#1256 » by nate33 » Mon Mar 31, 2025 4:29 am

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:
nate33 wrote:
Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:Would the Wizards have drafted him from a physical standpoint before he became the NBA player he is?

I doubt it.

What's your point?
It had to do with Hartenstein not being a Wizards kind of player, someone they'd never draft because of agility and measurables at draft time.

I was drawing an analogy. He's really good, even if he's a defensive player.

The player I'm sick of talking about was the comparison. He's going to be solid defensively, and people will be hearing me say I tried to tell you.

I just don’t see it. The guy is top heavy and moves like Thomas Bryant, only with less wingspan. I just don’t see why one would project him to be a good defender.

If I’m wrong, I’ll eat crow. I just don’t think I am.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread 

Post#1257 » by dobrojim » Mon Mar 31, 2025 4:37 am

doclinkin wrote:
dobrojim wrote:According to Tankathon, we currently have the 42nd and 48th picks in this draft.


Show me how and I’ll believe it. But Tankathon never updated their mock after the trade deadline.

What’s more likely. That Tankathon has more correct info than the nba press releases and David Aldridge.

Or that they don’t know where those picks are going so they didn’t change their chart.


OK, Tank is part of the internet so yes, I agree it could be, and maybe is, wrong. That said, I have yet to
see a comprehensive chart that shows what picks are going where. Maybe it's there are too many
contingencies to figure out before while there are still games to be played. Sorry if I misled anyone.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread 

Post#1258 » by nate33 » Mon Mar 31, 2025 4:38 am

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:
nate33 wrote:
prime1time wrote:OKC formula requires an elite 3 level scorer. Who is ours?

Every team requires an elite scorer. That's the hardest thing to find - particularly one who is not a defensive liability.

We don't have one yet.
Queen is an elite scorer.

He is a good scorer, but I highly doubt he will an elite first option scorer because bigs rarely are. It’s just too hard to get them touches on every half court set.

The only legit #1 option bigs in the last 15 years have been Jokic, Embiid, and Giannis. Are you predicting Queen will be that good? Because if he isn’t that good, then you’ve got a guy more like Julius Randle. And I don’t think you can win with him.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread 

Post#1259 » by prime1time » Mon Mar 31, 2025 6:24 am

tontoz wrote:
prime1time wrote:
The issue I have with this approach is where do the Wizards separate themselves? You have 5 starting positions. Sarr is locked in at the 4.


Nobody on this roster is " locked in". Right now we have a bunch of bad players. The only young guy who looks like he can become good in the near future is Kyshawn.

The guy who's shooting 36.8% from the field this year? lol. When you draft a guy at 2 he's locked in. And if he goes bust then the people that drafted him usually go with him. Sarr and the people who drafted him are intertwined.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread 

Post#1260 » by SUPERBALLMAN » Mon Mar 31, 2025 7:18 am

nate33 wrote:
prime1time wrote:
nate33 wrote:Long for their position, average or better athleticism, and a good work ethic. They want sound defenders and they're less concerned with polished offensive skills, figuring that can teach that over time. It's the OKC formula.

OKC formula requires an elite 3 level scorer. Who is ours?

Every team requires an elite scorer. That's the hardest thing to find - particularly one who is not a defensive liability.

We don't have one yet.




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