The Javale McGee Appreciation Thread

[JonathanJoseph]

Basketball coaches look at a sweeping hook shot and say "I wish today's player would take that shot more often because it can't be blocked."

Are you serious? Why would anyone want to try to block a 15 foot hook shot? They WANT McGee to take those ridiculous shots.

There is no basketball coach on any level who has ever wanted their player to take a 15 foot hook shot. McGee took 2 of them yesterday. That's very different than a 5-7 foot hook shot.

[Ruzious]

Basketball coaches look at a sweeping hook shot and say "I wish today's player would take that shot more often because it can't be blocked."

Are you serious? Why would anyone want to try to block a 15 foot hook shot? They WANT McGee to take those ridiculous shots.

There is no basketball coach on any level who has ever wanted their player to take a 15 foot hook shot. McGee took 2 of them yesterday. That's very different than a 5-7 foot hook shot.

Back in the real old days - when players took set shots rather than jump shots, 15 foot long hook shots were very common. And Lew Alcindor perfected hook shots generally around 10 feet from the hoop. It is a shame nobody uses his sky hook - it was a pretty shot. I'd love it if Javale took a month next summer to work with Kareem on the sky hook - it certainly looked a lot more fluid than Javale's odd looking hook.

[JonathanJoseph]

Basketball coaches look at a sweeping hook shot and say "I wish today's player would take that shot more often because it can't be blocked."

Are you serious? Why would anyone want to try to block a 15 foot hook shot? They WANT McGee to take those ridiculous shots.

There is no basketball coach on any level who has ever wanted their player to take a 15 foot hook shot. McGee took 2 of them yesterday. That's very different than a 5-7 foot hook shot.

Back in the real old days - when players took set shots rather than jump shots, 15 foot long hook shots were very common. And Lew Alcindor perfected hook shots generally around 10 feet from the hoop. It is a shame nobody uses his sky hook - it was a pretty shot. I'd love it if Javale took a month next summer to work with Kareem on the sky hook - it certainly looked a lot more fluid than Javale's odd looking hook.

For starters, this is not the old days. Further, you are talking about one of the greatest ever and even Kareem kept them within 10 feet.

Javale took 2 hooks from 15 feet and a 17 foot jump shot in only 8 attempts. The effort is there but its not clear that the IQ is. This franchise cannot afford to invest big $ into another player with low IQ.

[pancakes3]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHWer104 ... re=related

[fishercob]

Well when you put it that way, Vale, it's perfectly clear.

[Nivek]

That instructional video from Javale...how am I going to say this?...betrays a lack of knowledge about Kareem's hook shot. He dismisses Kareem's technique by saying "everyone wants to hold the ball out here" (and extending his arm) and then saying, "Everyone can't be Kareem." Javale then talks about the need to keep the ball close to the body. Except, go to youtube and watch Kareem shoot the sky hook -- Kareem always kept the ball close to his body. It was a "sky" hook because he got such good elevation and extension, and his release point was so high.

[DCZards]

I like the idea of Javale developing a hook shot. Yes, it should be closer than 15 feet but I think I saw McGee knock down a couple of 12-15 foot hooks a couple of days ago,

I've often wondered why more big men don't develop a hook shot similar to the one mastered by Kareem---probably the best center of all time. Javale has a size and length similar to Jabbar and if he even comes close to shooting a hook as well as Kareem....look out.
Of course, it would also help if Javale had Kareem's discipline, focus and b'ball IQ.

[Ruzious]

Are you serious? Why would anyone want to try to block a 15 foot hook shot? They WANT McGee to take those ridiculous shots.

There is no basketball coach on any level who has ever wanted their player to take a 15 foot hook shot. McGee took 2 of them yesterday. That's very different than a 5-7 foot hook shot.

Back in the real old days - when players took set shots rather than jump shots, 15 foot long hook shots were very common. And Lew Alcindor perfected hook shots generally around 10 feet from the hoop. It is a shame nobody uses his sky hook - it was a pretty shot. I'd love it if Javale took a month next summer to work with Kareem on the sky hook - it certainly looked a lot more fluid than Javale's odd looking hook.

For starters, this is not the old days. Further, you are talking about one of the greatest ever and even Kareem kept them within 10 feet.

Javale took 2 hooks from 15 feet and a 17 foot jump shot in only 8 attempts. The effort is there but its not clear that the IQ is. This franchise cannot afford to invest big $ into another player with low IQ.

Pardon me for actually taking what you said seriously - it won't happen again. I was responding to YOUR comment "There is no basketball coach on any level who has ever wanted their player to take a 15 foot hook shot."

[Ruzious]

That instructional video from Javale...how am I going to say this?...betrays a lack of knowledge about Kareem's hook shot. He dismisses Kareem's technique by saying "everyone wants to hold the ball out here" (and extending his arm) and then saying, "Everyone can't be Kareem." Javale then talks about the need to keep the ball close to the body. Except, go to youtube and watch Kareem shoot the sky hook -- Kareem always kept the ball close to his body. It was a "sky" hook because he got such good elevation and extension, and his release point was so high.

It's sad. Unfortunately, whenever Javale thinks for himself, there's a giant misconception he's apparently latched onto somehow. Again, it'd be such a bonus if he'd spend some time with Kareem to learn the sky hook. If anyone was born to emulate the mechanics that Lew Alcindor used, it's Javale McGee. And frankly, if I'm the GM or Ted Leonsis, I arrange for it. Waiting for McGee to take the bull by the horns and be proactive is probably not the smartest thing to do.

[Nivek]

I agree on all counts, Ruz. McGee clearly spent time in the offseason working on his game. He has gotten better -- and I like that he's shooting hooks. Kareem would be an ideal teacher of the mechanics of playing in the post and shooting the hook. Kareem's postup skills were unreal. He had a lot more than the hook. If Javale emulated Kareem's mechanics on the hook, he'd be a dangerous weapon.

[pancakes3]

1 - kareem has a chappy reputation and a high opinion of himself. i don't think he'd "lower" himself to be a big man coach for Javale. probably not even for dwight.

2 - there really isn't anything kareem could bring that any other big man coach wouldn't be able to except for prestige. it's up to mcgee to get in the hours, practicing hook shots, mikan drills, etc. and frankly all that should have started in middle school - not now.

3 - i agree with nivek's assessments of the hook. it's a huge misconception, and not just with mcgee, that the hook shot is "hooked in". the arm comes into play very little save perhaps to elevate the shot. if you look at the mechanics of it, it's no different than a regular shot, except your arm is turned 90 degrees. you still need to get extension on the arm and most of the propulsion is in the wrists. the swinging trebuchet motion is reserved for guys like me and montestewart whose hands aren't big enough to pull it off and we need to cradle it with the help of centrifugal forces.

[Black Eyed Sooz]

Who knows whether Kareem would be willing to mentor JaVale, but at least he could probably get Lisa Leslie to help him out- she is apparently tutoring his half sister about how to play the low post- check out this article from the LA Times from a year ago.

My sense is that JaVale probably hasn't been real receptive to that kind of one on one tutoring, but he is slowly maturing and will probably be interested in it down the road.

As awkward as he still looks out there, he has worked on his game and made some improvements.

[hands11]

I have seen a few encouraging signs from McGee this year in the areas I most wanted to see them.

The last two games he is minimizing the number of straight up head scratching bone headed plays he makes on offense and he has been fighting more for position on D. The few that he has made aren't as bad. Last game he got a rebound and tried to put it back in a hurry while off balance. He regressed on that play. He just needs to stick to slowing down and staying balanced. He should have converted that. The more he does the right things, the more he will realize what he needs to do and what works. That will build his confidence and team confidence.

Second, he has been playing more aggressive. He actually posted up D Howard twice and beat him. That did not go unnoticed by me.

Two games isn't enough to fully convince me but it just might be a the start of him corner getting turn.

If he shows these same thing tonight, that will be a really good sign.

I did a post in a game thread recently about how this adds up. If Wall plays like a floor manager PG and hits that J was some consistency and McGee keeps doing what he has done the last two games at center, this team will have made a major step forward. Add Seraphin as the stronger center and things will start the gel. Flip will finally have the minimum basic pieces he needs. PG and Center.

From there, Nick and Lewis have to start hitting 3's at their historic averages. Neither is so far. Odds are that doesn't last.

[Nivek]

1 - kareem has a chappy reputation and a high opinion of himself. i don't think he'd "lower" himself to be a big man coach for Javale. probably not even for dwight.

Kareem has been humbled a bit since his playing days. He knows that his aloofness and irritability from his younger days has likely cost him a chance to be a head coach in the NBA. Plus, he's had some financial setbacks. One reason he played as long as he did was that he needed the money.

2 - there really isn't anything kareem could bring that any other big man coach wouldn't be able to except for prestige. it's up to mcgee to get in the hours, practicing hook shots, mikan drills, etc. and frankly all that should have started in middle school - not now.

Agreed. One thing about Kareem, though was that he was a true technician on the post. The benefit of stature/reputation is that it MIGHT be a shortcut through knuckleheaded/youthful resistance.

[DCZards]

I believe Kareem welcomes the opportunity to work with/coach young ballplayers. He coached a youth basketball team on an Apache Indian reservation in Arizona and Jabbar has been credited for helping develop Andrew Bynum.

Kareem has every right to have a high opinion of himself. Few people have accomplished as much as he has---both on and off the court. But Nivek is right, Kareem has been humbled in recent years by suggestions that his often sullen and ornery attitude has led to him being shut out of post-NBA career opportunties.

[hands11]

Really liking the drop step move he added on the left block.

Seems like he has figured out that he need to spin, then gather himself, THEN go up.

Against MN he tried to add a move from the right block but it didn't work. He spun but the defender was there. Seems he didnt set the play up by first feeling for the player to determine what position they were in. This is the maturity part of the move. He will need to read, then react. But I really like that he is working on these moves and making some progress. Maybe the right side move should be more a baby hook.

This is a very important piece in his progress.

The kid desperately needed at least one move that he could go to when he gets the ball there. Now he has something to build from.

McGee is looking a lot smarter this year. The kid is slowly starting to look like an NBA center. He seems more focused and he is fighting harder for position on both sides. Still making some mistakes but given his progress, I can live with some mistakes.

So even in an 0-8 start. McGee gets some props.

[Ruzious]

I believe Kareem welcomes the opportunity to work with/coach young ballplayers. He coached a youth basketball team on an Apache Indian reservation in Arizona and Jabbar has been credited for helping develop Andrew Bynum.

Kareem has every right to have a high opinion of himself. Few people have accomplished as much as he has---both on and off the court. But Nivek is right, Kareem has been humbled in recent years by suggestions that his often sullen and ornery attitude has led to him being shut out of post-NBA career opportunties.

Yup. And from the quotes I've heard from him over the years, he really really wants to be wanted by an NBA team. I think he would jump at the chance - if an NBA team came up to him said - Please do what Hakeem did for Howard.

And he's a legend - larger than life. Maybe I'm wrong about McGee, but if If I'm him, and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar is teaching me, I pay a helluvalot more attention than I do to Gene Banks. That's no knock on Banks, but Kareem is like a basketball god - and they've got the same kind of physical attributes. I mean... you couldn't conjure up anyone better. Then again, I'm probably biased since I grew wanting to be Lew Alcindor... and came up a foot and a half short.

[Nivek]

The thing that drives me nuts about McGee are those wasted shots he throws up. Those little no-jump, flat-footed flip shots, or those sidewinder jumpers that no prayer of going in. With his physical advantage over opponents, there's just no reason for that kind of shot. They're the kind of shots a 10-year old might attempt while playing against his dad or an older brother.

[GoneShammGone]

The thing that drives me nuts about McGee are those wasted shots he throws up. Those little no-jump, flat-footed flip shots, or those sidewinder jumpers that no prayer of going in. With his physical advantage over opponents, there's just no reason for that kind of shot. They're the kind of shots a 10-year old might attempt while playing against his dad or an older brother.

Well, on the positive side, last year that description applied to every shot he took. This year, we are actually seeing fewer of those, with more legit looking big-man moves instead. Now I think he resorts to those mostly when he's off-balance due to contact from defenders. I think he needs to slow down a bit and gather himself before starting a move... hopefully that comes with experience. Also, he still needs to be stronger, so he can absorb more contact without being thrown off. So he has a ways to go, but at least there's been measurable progress.

[Nivek]

Agreed, GSG -- those shots are less frequent. They're still too frequent, but they're going away.