Official Trade Thread XV: 12/22/10 - 5/3/11

[20MexicanosIn1Van]

I wish we tried to get Erden. We could've offered more than a 2nd round pick.

Howard for Erden + Harangody + Daniels (expiring) + 1st would've worked. I think Boston would've done this in heart beat considering they gave away Erden, Harangody, and Daniels. If Boston doesn't want to include the pick that's fine too. Erden and Harangody are young so they fit the "go young" strategy but they (at least Erden) play smart and tough basketball.

Going out and getting young basketball players doesn't necessarily mean that they are low BBIQ and soft players. I think EG gets this confused sometimes.

[Ruzious]

In fact, Blatche had a moment kinda like that last season.

At least one of them won't be on the team next season.

[Bunzilla]

I can't help but to feel like any interest McGee gained from the dunk contest was instantly dispersed following his own outburst and Wall's comments.

[Hoopalotta]

My understanding is that McGee and Randy Wittman are prone to get into it with this having been going on all season. I wouldn't even rule out the idea that Wittman is actually trying to get McGee to yell back at him. There could be a McGee deal at some point, but this particular instance doesn't really change anything as far as I'm concerned.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Just read about McGee's shouting match with the coaches. Meh, I'm tired of his act too. Adn although Nick Young has improved, I'd rather roll with Jordan Crawford than commit to Young with a longterm deal.

Wiz trade: McGee, Blatche, Yi, and Young
Clippers trade: Kaman, Aminu, and future first (unprotected, payable in 2012 or 2013)

We give the Clippers some short-term salary relief and give them another high flyer to market. We get every past and present knuckle-head off the team and essentially receive two lottery picks.

Then we follow it up with this (structured as two separate deals):

Wiz trade: Bibby and Howard
Celtics trade: Nate, Daniels, Harangody, and 2011 first

Kaman/Seraphin
Lewis/Booker
Aminu/Thornton
Crawford/Evans
Wall/Nate

At team that still stinks but at least they'll try hard every night. Our 2012 cap space isn't affected and we continue to stockpile picks. If you take off the "let's overrate our own players" glasses, it's a pretty good scenario IMO.

McGee's a good player and a good dunker.

These coaches are 40-97.

I can't say I blame the young man one bit as many times as Flip has given him the quick hook and lost the same old way.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I think most of the posters on this site are about as right as Flip is good as a coach when it comes to McGee.

[WashWiz54]

I thought McGee would get it but the more and more I watch of him the more I question it. I still think it's a good possibility he turns into something but I'm certainly no longer 100% sure.

I just really hope the kid isn't Stro Swift 2.0 (who I held on belief to for way too long).

[Hoopalotta]

Dwight just isn't happening unless Wall has a Rose-esque rise where he's considered a legit MVP candidate. Too bad the Wiz gave up Memphis' first for Critter. They'd have to pay the piper this year. Essentially the Wiz would have 3 first this draft, albeit a low teens and high twenties, but once you get into consolidation packages it starts to get to be about quantity rather than quality. McGee/Memphis 1st/Hawks 1st/Wiz protected 2012 first sort of looks like a good package for Bogut...ah well, fun to dream.

I'm comfortable with the slow approach, but Bogut's just about the only realistic target I can think of that sounds intriguing as a target for a quick turnaround consolidation trade. If we're talking about bringing in a vet making some money (or soon to get paid), my first question is "would we still stink?". Sadly, with most of the names coming up, I'm thinking yes, yes we'd still stink, so I don't really see the point in short-cutting things.

But 26-27 isn't that old for a center and all the Buck's metrics as far as "tough stuff" are top 3-6 (OP FG% at the rim, OP Points in the paint, defensive rebounding, overall defensive efficiency and so on), so you've gotta wonder that if we imported a good bit of that if we'd be right on the warpath. Their problem is that the offense stinks, so the question would be if Wall and assorted shooters could get us into middle efficiency offensively. I'm thinking the answer is probably "yes".

I don't know if they'd trade Bogut or not, but we could put together some sort of a package I'm sure, though we're now short on expiring contracts. But they'd probably want to huck some of last year's bad gets in there and the truth is that the Gooden/Maggette/Salmons hydra is so calamitously conceived that even Rashard would represent salary relief going the other way against any two of those guys (an absolutely shocking admission; just say it: "Rashard is salary relief". None of you can say it, can you? The words just don't come out.). Those deals are just so constraining and go for so long that I'm afraid that we might just then get stuck not far from where the Bucks are now (I probably find Salmons the least offensive option, but Maggette is on the shortest deal; Gooden strikes me as the worst from amongst their bad salary as he's got guaranteed money out through 2027 or something like that).

I'm interested as to what a realistic a package for Bogut would be.

Too easy:
Washington Out: M. Bibby, J. McGee, J. Crawford (or whoever) & 5th Pick
Washington Out: A. Bogut

Too punitive:
Washington Out: R. Lewis, J. McGee, 5th, 21st & 35th Picks
Washington in: A. Bogut, J. Salmons & D. Gooden

Mayhap the twain shall meet somewhere in betwixt. If we could arrange things to where we had a big pocket of cap space, we might well be good enough to where we actually could attract more talent and build up into being a proper contender.

[Silvie Lysandra]

McGee's a good dunker.

ftfy

McGee is a tall, long player who's really athletic but is soft, stupid and devoid of basketball skills...tell me again why he's going to even be a marginal starter in the NBA? In fact, as of now he probably wouldn't crack the Celtics' rotation, even post-Perkins.

He's the center version of Gerald Green, who had stretches of looking like a stud before the fact that he had a room temperature IQ overshadowed his physical gifts.

Get him and Blatche out of here, at least so we can look at our actual young bigs - I think Seraphin will be a better player than McGee in about 3 years, because he actually does center things, and Booker, while he won't put up better stats than Blatche, is more likely to contribute to a winning team.

[Illuminaire]

Bogut seems like a final piece kind of move. I don't think I'd want to break our warchest going for him before we had a chance to add more talent at other positions.

Also, CCJ - you already agreed earlier in the season that Flip was getting McGee to play better, and that part of the reason was the quick hook. Are you flip-flopping on us?

Let's all be realistic here. McGee has otherworldly talent... and he barely uses it. You can place part of the blame on the coaching staff, and that's fair. Part of their job is to find a way to get him motivated. But a good portion of the blame HAS to go on McGee too; part of his job is to work hard, develop his game, and listen to his coaches.

We keep hearing anecdotal stories about how McGee doesn't really listen to his coaches or teammates. Maybe those are exaggerated. But even if they're only partially true, giving McGee a free pass is not going to help him become a better player or a better person. Sometimes the means determine the end, and the means here is telling McGee to man up.

Whether he does so or not is his own responsibility.


PS: I do agree that there have been specific games where Flip has been impatient with McGee. I just don't see it all the time, nor believe it was always unwarranted. While it helps us to have a scape goat, the problems with this team seem to be more complicated than just "it's Flip's fault!" or "it's McGee's fault!"

[Hoopalotta]

Bogut seems like a final piece kind of move. I don't think I'd want to break our warchest going for him before we had a chance to add more talent at other positions.

Yeah, my position by default is it makes more sense not to make a consolidation trade as of now as we're basically further than one (realistically attainable) player away and lack a proper core to win with whomever we'd be plugging in. But, in taking stock of the league and who might be available, Bogut as a defensive center would work out a lot better than many of the other names bandied about in the thread here. I'd say that's true by a rather wide margin too.

Realistically, and given that we're on the hook for about $40 million to Lewis, Wall, Blatche and Bibby next year, it does indeed seem like there's not enough slack in the rope to properly hop-scotch our way into anything transformative.

[nate33]

I wouldn't give up THAT much for Bogut. Bogut is a good player but his injury issues concern me. I'd do Hoopalotta's "too easy" trade of McGee + 2011 lotto pick + minor pieces for Bogut. I wouldn't give up more than that.

I wonder if Miami would trade Blatche for Haslem? It could make sense if we convinced Miami that Blatche can play center. Blatche can spread the floor offensively so Wade and Lebron can drive the lane. I guess it's a little late now, but that might have made sense at the Trade Deadline. Still, it might be something worth consideration this summer. My guess is that OKC and Dallas are going to do what it takes to retain Chandler and Perkins. That takes the only two good defensive centers off the market. Miami needs someone to plug there.

I'd love to start next year with a starting frontcourt of Haslem and Bogut, with Booker and Seraphin backing them up. Now THAT's a core of smart, tough SOB's who Wall could lead into battle.

[Ruzious]

Bogut would obviously help the Wiz, but he wouldn't be an ideal fit. Milwaukee maximizes his abilities at both ends of the court, but I don't think that would be the case in Washington. He's best in a half court based offense and is strictly a low post scorer. He's not going to be flying up and down the court with Wall. And defensively, Milwaukee tries to funnell things straight into him, so his lack of lateral quickness isn't exposed, and he gets more blocked shots than he did pre Skiles. He's one of the best bigs in the game, but he's not a great player.

[Rafael122]

We give up young McGee and a lotto pick for Bogut? GTFO.

OK, I'm in the "Dwight Howard is a pipedream" camp, but based on what's been going on the last 12 months, how possible is it?

Hear me out, we have enough young talent on the roster (by 2012, our roster will basically consist of a bunch of guys in their early to mid 20s) that we could probably give up a package that would include McGee and at least two first round picks for Howard. Probably more players. Or we could go after him as a free agent, I don't know. Ted is a businessman, he knows how to make money, he's a great marketing guy. Dwight probably won't be nearly as marketable here as he would be in L.A., Brooklyn, or NY itself, but I wouldn't put it past the guy to make a pitch for him. He will be 26 in the summer of 2012, we'd have max cap space, we'd have young talent, and most importantly, Wall-Howard would be our 1-2 punch. You add in a draft pick, such as Derrick Williams manning the 3 or 4...heck it wouldn't matter, Dwight makes everyone around him better defensively.

Pipe dream, maybe, but I wouldn't put our chances at 0%. Now if Ted came out tomorrow and said we're not going after major free agents the next 2 years, that's a different story.

[nate33]

We have to win some ball games before Howard considers coming here. He's not going to leave a 55-win team in Orlando to join a 25-win team in Washington. The Wizards need to win at least 40 games with their young talent alone before Howard even thinks about joining. The way things look now, I don't see how it's possible.

[mhd]

Which is why I thought the Howard in 2012 idea is a complete pipedream. I would have done the Baron Davis trade that Cleveland did, subbing Hinrich+filler for Davis and the unprotected 1st.

[nate33]

Which is why I thought the Howard in 2012 idea is a complete pipedream. I would have done the Baron Davis trade that Cleveland did, subbing Hinrich+filler for Davis and the unprotected 1st.

That's paying an additional $20M ($5M next year, $15M in 2013) for what looks like the 11th pick in the draft. If you argue that Davis is worth roughly $4M in actual production in 2013 as Wall's backup, then it's really like paying $16M for the 11th pick.

Hinrich cost us $14M after cash considerations. He's probably worth $5M a year in actual production so we really only paid about $4M for the #17 pick.

[mhd]

Which is why I thought the Howard in 2012 idea is a complete pipedream. I would have done the Baron Davis trade that Cleveland did, subbing Hinrich+filler for Davis and the unprotected 1st.

That's paying an additional $20M ($5M next year, $15M in 2013) for what looks like the 11th pick in the draft. If you argue that Davis is worth roughly $4M in actual production in 2013 as Wall's backup, then it's really like paying $16M for the 11th pick.

Hinrich cost us $14M after cash considerations. He's probably worth $5M a year in actual production so we really only paid about $4M for the #17 pick.

Yeah, you are probably right Nate. I did post a trade of McGee+expirings (Yi+Thorton+Hamadi) for Ben Gordon+Detroit's unprotected 1st. That pick looks to be the 6th in the draft. I consider this draft to be a 6 player draft (Irving, D. Williams, Kanter, Jonas V, Sullinger, P. Jones), so we could have set ourselves up nicely.

[Ruzious]

Throwing this out there as an offshoot of the Biedrins/Javale trade thoughts, Howzabout

Biedrins for Blatche, Booker, and the Atlanta pick?

Biedrins has been down the last 2 years I think due to injuries, but before then he had 2 straight years with a 19 PER - even though GS doesn't let him be a scorer. Granted, his rebounding rate is probably exaggerated by GS's run and gun style. Still, his per 36 minutes/game averages are 12.1 boards and 11.6 points. And he's still just 24. He's making 9 mil a year for 3 more years, but Blatche was going to be making good money, too, towards the end of his contract. Combined the salaries of Blatche, Booker and the pick, it would effectively be pretty much cap neutral when it matters.

I just wonder if there's some untapped potential in Biedrins - as he's never been considered a fit in GS's system. He's shot near 60% from the field (wish he could foul shots), and he's an athletic strong unselfish 7 footer with a very good attitude. Split the center position between him and Javale, and let Javale also play some PF - both play around 30 minutes a game. And it lets you avoid matching up Javale against the more physical centers.

[nate33]

I don't see why we're giving up Booker or the pick, Ruzious. I figure Blatche at $7M a year is worth about as much as Biedrins at $9M a year. Both guys are young, talented and disappointing after showing flashes.

Another problem is that we'd be taking on Biedrins more substantial contract with more 2013 money owed. It hurts any free agency plans. That may not be a dealbreaker, but it's an issue.