Official Trade Thread - Part XXVII

[verbal8]

Fish, whats your latest iteration on how to get Ilyasova? Would it be a better use of resources to sign a FA like Patrick Patterson and then try to use Martell in a trade for some combo guard help?

Unless Miller is dealt, I don't see a huge need for a combo guard. Not that one should be passed up if available, since it is definitely a long term need. With Beal and Wall averaging 35 mpg and Miller at 15 mpg, that only will typically leave 11 mpg for the 4th guard. Webster and/or Glen Rice should be able to fill those mintues next season.

With Patterson it really comes down to the price. If he is available for part of the MLE, he could be a great addition. The whole thing(especially for 4 years) seems pretty steep for a guy who has been a quality back-up. One plus in adding Patterson would be it would make it possible to move Nene if there was a decent option. Patterson/Booker/Gooden isn't a great PF rotation, but I think you can get away with it if the other 4 positions are strong.

[Dark Faze]

Just learned that Texas has no state dax.

Gortat is so gone.

[Ruzious]

Just learned that Texas has no state tax.

Gortat is so gone.

Speaking as a tax guy, as long as you have a good tax planner, that matters far less than you think. I'll leave it at that, because it's already been discussed in detail before.

[dckingsfan]

Fish, whats your latest iteration on how to get Ilyasova? Would it be a better use of resources to sign a FA like Patrick Patterson and then try to use Martell in a trade for some combo guard help?

Unless Miller is dealt, I don't see a huge need for a combo guard. Not that one should be passed up if available, since it is definitely a long term need. With Beal and Wall averaging 35 mpg and Miller at 15 mpg, that only will typically leave 11 mpg for the 4th guard. Webster and/or Glen Rice should be able to fill those mintues next season.

If we bring on Satoransky - is there any need for Webster? You have Satoransky and Rice at SG and Porter at SF. Would a Webster trade for a rotational FC player be best? (big if - we re-sign Ariza)

[fishercob]

Pels trade: Withey, rights to Jackson,
Pels get: Webster

Pels get their desperately needed wing shooter -- a need heightened by Anthony Morrow's (45% from 3) decision to opt out of his contract

Bucks trade: Ersan "fish's Morris Almond + Laron Profit all rolled up into one" Ilyasova
Bucks get: rights to Pierre Jackson

Bucks get an unhappy guy out of town for a fresh start and clear his salary to aid their rebuild. They add Jackson, who could grow into a nice scoring spark off the bench

Wiz trade: Webster
Wiz get: Ilyasova, Withey

Wiz get the stretch big that may have won them the Indiana series, and a guy that can help keep Nene's minutes down. Withey had a late first round grade in YODA and didn't have a bad rookie year. He has upside as a rim protecting center, and could grow into a competent backup or a Brendan Haywood type.

Re-sign Gortat, Ariza, Gooden
Say a fond farewell to Booker, Singleton, Seraphin

Then you have

Wall/Dr. Dre
Beal/MLE/Rice
Ariza/Porter
Nene/Ersan/Gooden
Gortat/Gooden/Withey

You have a 2nd round pick and the MLE with which out the roster. I'd go hard after Patty Mills with the MLE, but assuming you can't get him, grab one of Meeks, Morrow CJ Miles, etc. Then shop in the bargain bins for another backup big and a third ballhandler.

[jivelikenice]

We'd have to include an additional salary to make that work, right?

[fishercob]

We'd have to include an additional salary to make that work, right?

I suppose. Perhaps you S&T to MIL one of the guys who you were planning on cutting ties with.

[dckingsfan]

I would bring in Satoransky and do a vet min deal for Kenyon Martin (or another vet like Gooden or Martin) and hold off on the MLE.

Wall/Dr. Dre/Satoransky
Beal/Rice/Satoransky
Ariza/Porter
Nene/Ersan/Martin
Gortat/Gooden/Withey

That is a pretty damn old FC - don't know if Wittman could control the minutes he played the group.

Maybe Martin is the wrong guy.

[jivelikenice]

We'd have to include an additional salary to make that work, right?

I suppose. Perhaps you S&T to MIL one of the guys who you were planning on cutting ties with.

Yeah, shouldn't be difficult to put together especially with someone like Singleton who may not have a market reardless

[jivelikenice]

I would bring in Satoransky and do a vet min deal for Kenyon Martin (or another vet like Gooden or Martin) and hold off on the MLE.

Wall/Dr. Dre/Satoransky
Beal/Rice/Satoransky
Ariza/Porter
Nene/Ersan/Martin
Gortat/Gooden/Withey

That is a pretty damn old FC - don't know if Wittman could control the minutes he played the group.

Maybe Martin is the wrong guy.

We can't really improve without using the MLE so I see no isse using it. I'd just try to keep it to 2-3 years max. It would be mistake totally bypass FA given the expsure we got in the playoffs. If you resign Gortat and Ariza and then decide not to use the MLE, you're punting on FA. Given that we may somewhat be a team that players want to play for now that would be a mistake. And its not as though we don't have a need for backup SG help and young frontcourt depth.

[dckingsfan]

I would bring in Satoransky and do a vet min deal for Kenyon Martin (or another vet like Gooden or Martin) and hold off on the MLE.

Wall/Dr. Dre/Satoransky
Beal/Rice/Satoransky
Ariza/Porter
Nene/Ersan/Martin
Gortat/Gooden/Withey

That is a pretty damn old FC - don't know if Wittman could control the minutes he played the group.

Maybe Martin is the wrong guy.

We can't really improve without using the MLE so I see no isse using it. I'd just try to keep it to 2-3 years max. It would be mistake totally bypass FA given the expsure we got in the playoffs. If you resign Gortat and Ariza and then decide not to use the MLE, you're punting on FA. Given that we may somewhat be a team that players want to play for now that would be a mistake. And its not as though we don't have a need for backup SG help and young frontcourt depth.

Good point. I guess it is really about who you can get for that MLE. If you could indeed get a rotational FC player - go for it.

[LyricalRico]

It looks like it is really 2 separate deals put together. The Grizzlies portion is Prince/22 pick for Miller. That could happen today(because both players are signed next year w/o options.

The Webster/Miller portion of the deal would have to happen after July 1st for the Pelicans to have cap space.

Exactly. As I mentioned in the post, the structure of the deal would have to be tweaked but visually I was representing who would end up where when it was all said and done.

[deneem4]

Il take hayward on potential alone...don't care what have ariza have done better...hayward is a better ball handler and can take pressure off wall and beal...that all that matters after this playoff...getting another ball handler who can create or a dominant big men and reliable stretch

Can Hayward play the D ? Can he get the steals and deflection that lead to Wall hitting Beal for transition 3`s ?

Who knows? He haven't been in our system so u can't really tell...gortat became an acceptable okafor...what makes u think Hayward can't be an acceptable ariza?

and maybe with another ball handler we can actually have a 1/2 court offense so we won't have to rely on transition 3s

[payitforward]

Fish, whats your latest iteration on how to get Ilyasova? Would it be a better use of resources to sign a FA like Patrick Patterson and then try to use Martell in a trade for some combo guard help?

Unless Miller is dealt, I don't see a huge need for a combo guard. Not that one should be passed up if available, since it is definitely a long term need. With Beal and Wall averaging 35 mpg and Miller at 15 mpg, that only will typically leave 11 mpg for the 4th guard. Webster and/or Glen Rice should be able to fill those mintues next season.

If we bring on Satoransky - is there any need for Webster? You have Satoransky and Rice at SG and Porter at SF. Would a Webster trade for a rotational FC player be best? (big if - we re-sign Ariza)

???

What makes you think either of these guys is an even adequate NBA player?

[payitforward]

Bucks trade: Ersan "fish's Morris Almond + Laron Profit all rolled up into one" Ilyasova
Bucks get: rights to Pierre Jackson

Doesn't this bounce off the trade checker because it's a big salary traded for a no salary at all? What am I missing??

[payitforward]

We'd have to include an additional salary to make that work, right?

I suppose. Perhaps you S&T to MIL one of the guys who you were planning on cutting ties with.

Yeah, shouldn't be difficult to put together especially with someone like Singleton who may not have a market reardless

No... Singleton is an unrestricted FA. So, lets say it's Seraphin (tho even so, I still think it bounces off the trade checker) -- why are the Bucks going to be willing to absorb non-producers just to... what? Get rid of Ilyasova?

As I wrote in a previous -- when you don't have trade assets, it's hard to make trades. Next someone will say S&T Booker in the deal.

[payitforward]

It looks like it is really 2 separate deals put together. The Grizzlies portion is Prince/22 pick for Miller. That could happen today(because both players are signed next year w/o options.

The Webster/Miller portion of the deal would have to happen after July 1st for the Pelicans to have cap space.

Exactly. As I mentioned in the post, the structure of the deal would have to be tweaked but visually I was representing who would end up where when it was all said and done.

Again -- I'm probably missing something, but I don't see how you tweak the structure of the deal to make it possible for us to give what you suggest and get back what you suggest.

Don't get me wrong -- not questioning whether it'd a good deal. I just can't figure out how it could possibly work. Now... maybe you don't know either! In which case we can agree to cross our fingers.

[fishercob]

Bucks trade: Ersan "fish's Morris Almond + Laron Profit all rolled up into one" Ilyasova
Bucks get: rights to Pierre Jackson

Doesn't this bounce off the trade checker because it's a big salary traded for a no salary at all? What am I missing??

I don't think the CBA governs how little salary a team came take back, just how much. Teams send out big salaries in to others' cap space with regularity (Zach Randolph to Memphis comes to mind, on a large scale).

If someone had the cap room to absorb his salary, we could trade Nene and take back nothing.

In this trade, we'd just be using New Orleans' cap space to trade Webster for Ilyasova. As was noted, a few tweaks may be required to make it completely CBA-kosher, but I think the fundamental structure works.

[payitforward]

Pels trade: Withey, rights to Jackson,
Pels get: Webster

Pels get their desperately needed wing shooter -- a need heightened by Anthony Morrow's (45% from 3) decision to opt out of his contract

Bucks trade: Ersan "fish's Morris Almond + Laron Profit all rolled up into one" Ilyasova
Bucks get: rights to Pierre Jackson

Bucks get an unhappy guy out of town for a fresh start and clear his salary to aid their rebuild. They add Jackson, who could grow into a nice scoring spark off the bench

Wiz trade: Webster
Wiz get: Ilyasova, Withey

Wiz get the stretch big that may have won them the Indiana series, and a guy that can help keep Nene's minutes down. Withey had a late first round grade in YODA and didn't have a bad rookie year. He has upside as a rim protecting center, and could grow into a competent backup or a Brendan Haywood type.

Re-sign Gortat, Ariza, Gooden
Say a fond farewell to Booker, Singleton, Seraphin

Then you have

Wall/Dr. Dre
Beal/MLE/Rice
Ariza/Porter
Nene/Ersan/Gooden
Gortat/Gooden/Withey

You have a 2nd round pick and the MLE with which out the roster. I'd go hard after Patty Mills with the MLE, but assuming you can't get him, grab one of Meeks, Morrow CJ Miles, etc. Then shop in the bargain bins for another backup big and a third ballhandler.

Note that without Booker, maybe we don't win the series vs. the Bulls, so that benefit vs. Indiana evaporates.

Just sayin'.... Doesn't mean I wouldn't want to have Ilyasova and Withey for Webster.

[dckingsfan]

Unless Miller is dealt, I don't see a huge need for a combo guard. Not that one should be passed up if available, since it is definitely a long term need. With Beal and Wall averaging 35 mpg and Miller at 15 mpg, that only will typically leave 11 mpg for the 4th guard. Webster and/or Glen Rice should be able to fill those mintues next season.

If we bring on Satoransky - is there any need for Webster? You have Satoransky and Rice at SG and Porter at SF. Would a Webster trade for a rotational FC player be best? (big if - we re-sign Ariza)

???

What makes you think either of these guys is an even adequate NBA player?

Opinion - I feel that the following players will be able to take on 10 min/gm roles next year - Porter/Rice/Satoransky.

Note: That if Porter eats up 10 min/gm, Websters 27 min/gm drops to 17 min/gm.

Webster played pretty well last year and I don't see him dropping off (much). So the risk is that the combination of Porter/Rice/Satoransky are not a replacement for Webster. But if Webster is dealt for FC depth it could be a net positive.

That is the thinking - but it only works if you can package Webster for a FC rotation player.

And it is a really bad move if Beal or Ariza go down.