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Line-ups, rotation, analysis thread.

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Re: Line-ups, rotation, analysis thread. 

Post#1261 » by doclinkin » Thu Dec 29, 2022 10:29 pm

Dat2U wrote:

So how do we find our Morant, SGA or even Darius Garland without tanking & limted trade resources to do anything more than ride a treadmill?


Fortunately historically many great PGs have been under-drafted. SGA went #11 and has been traded already in his career. Garland went #5. Curry #7. Reasonably high but not unobtainable. Occasionally there is a Morant or Magic who go at the top, but teams often slip on the shorter skilled players. Haliburton. Etc. I think you can get good value bargain hunting for PGs with extra picks.
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Re: Line-ups, rotation, analysis thread. 

Post#1262 » by doclinkin » Thu Dec 29, 2022 10:37 pm

barelyawake wrote:Obviously, Dat, you COULD get lucky with late picks. You COULD find a guy who was on a bench and never got a chance to shine. Or some star has to demand a trade. It certainly involves a lot of luck, either way.

I personally think we are a Siakam away from a championship. I’m good with Goodwin, Wright, Davis and Deni handling point.


I lean towards Dat's view with this. Not strictly that we need a playmaking PG to win a championship. I don't see that the dynasty teams have been led by the game's smallest players. Stef being the notable exception. But that you need a player who can carry the team and force refs to call fouls and exert his will vs opponents. That means a player who can call their own number and create improbable buckets no matter what defense the scouts have junked together to stop them. I don't see a Siakam being that guy.

Me I'd look for players in the draft with high FT/FGA ratio, regardless of position. And solid AST totals for their position, especially in non PG wing players. Though if you get a Jokic (or a Gasol brother) then cool. Salt in some defensive rebounding that is good for their spot and you know you have a player who cares about the little things, dirty work, winning more than looking pretty.

Since b-ref went behind a paywall I haven't been scouting statistics much. But those players are often available late lotto, mid-draft and tend to stand out when they make it to the bigs.
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Re: Line-ups, rotation, analysis thread. 

Post#1263 » by nate33 » Thu Dec 29, 2022 10:48 pm

doclinkin wrote:
Dat2U wrote:

So how do we find our Morant, SGA or even Darius Garland without tanking & limted trade resources to do anything more than ride a treadmill?


Fortunately historically many great PGs have been under-drafted. SGA went #11 and has been traded already in his career. Garland went #5. Curry #7. Reasonably high but not unobtainable. Occasionally there is a Morant or Magic who go at the top, but teams often slip on the shorter skilled players. Haliburton. Etc. I think you can get good value bargain hunting for PGs with extra picks.

Typically though, what you can find later in the lottery is a combo guard like a Terry Rozier, Immanuel Quickley or Colin Sexton - guys that are perceived as undersized shooting guards more so than point guards. But everyone once in a while, one of those undersized shooting guards figures out how to be a playmaker and becomes a true primary guard - like Lillard, SGA or Mitchell.

Man, it was such a failure to miss out on Haliburton.
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Re: Line-ups, rotation, analysis thread. 

Post#1264 » by payitforward » Thu Dec 29, 2022 11:00 pm

Dat2U wrote:...So how do we find our Morant, SGA or even Darius Garland without tanking & limted trade resources to do anything more than ride a treadmill?

What's the problem? How about drafting well?

If we'd had the #10 pick in...

2009 we could have had Jrue Holiday.
In 2010, make it Paul George
In 2011 Kawhi Leonard
In 2012 Draymond Green
'13 -- Giannis
'14 -- Nikola Jokic
'15 -- Devin Booker
'16 -- Damontas Sabonis
'17 -- Donovan Mitchell
'18 -- SGA
'19 -- Brandon Clarke
'20 -- Tyrese Halliburton
'21 -- Trey Murphy
'22 -- Tari Eason

& I'm sure I could supply a second list &, a 3d list as well, at the same #10 spot -- each of which would suffice to establish us as one of the best teams in the league.
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Re: Line-ups, rotation, analysis thread. 

Post#1265 » by AFM » Fri Dec 30, 2022 12:15 am

Talk to these fellas PIF. It's like they don't get it.
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Re: Line-ups, rotation, analysis thread. 

Post#1266 » by deneem4 » Fri Dec 30, 2022 12:44 am

payitforward wrote:
Dat2U wrote:...So how do we find our Morant, SGA or even Darius Garland without tanking & limted trade resources to do anything more than ride a treadmill?

What's the problem? How about drafting well?

If we'd had the #10 pick in...

2009 we could have had Jrue Holiday.
In 2010, make it Paul George
In 2011 Kawhi Leonard
In 2012 Draymond Green
'13 -- Giannis
'14 -- Nikola Jokic
'15 -- Devin Booker
'16 -- Damontas Sabonis
'17 -- Donovan Mitchell
'18 -- SGA
'19 -- Brandon Clarke
'20 -- Tyrese Halliburton
'21 -- Trey Murphy
'22 -- Tari Eason

& I'm sure I could supply a second list &, a 3d list as well, at the same #10 spot -- each of which would suffice to establish us as one of the best teams in the league.


I honestly like deni as a point
Issue is confidence and aggressiveness
Deni with kuzma mindset would be an excellent guard, and he’s still young enough
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Re: Line-ups, rotation, analysis thread. 

Post#1267 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Fri Dec 30, 2022 6:33 am

Dat2U wrote:
nate33 wrote:
barelyawake wrote:We just need leadership and a superstar.

That's kind of the problem though, isn't it? We don't have a superstar, and we are not going to get a superstar as long as we keep gunning for the 10th seed.


In theory we have an ideal

2nd option: Beal
3rd option: KP
4th option/bench scoring: Kuz/Rui
Elite perimeter defenders: Avdija/Wright
Solid role players who hit 3s: Morris/Kispert
Rim runner/shot blocker: Gafford

That's a solid rotation... in theory... what's missing from being a serious team in the East? An elite PG/shot creator. How do you get that with Barton, Davis & maybe one of one of your other rotation guys like Kuz/Morris or Wright and no available 1sts? You can't. Maybe Charlotte gives up on the season and gives you Rozier on the cheap. I don't think that significantly moves the needle either.

So how do we find our Morant, SGA or even Darius Garland without tanking & limted trade resources to do anything more than ride a treadmill?


That kid that came out of Auburn one year early…the super-quick PG, he would help.

Fuller?
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Re: Line-ups, rotation, analysis thread. 

Post#1268 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Fri Dec 30, 2022 6:55 am

payitforward wrote:
Dat2U wrote:...So how do we find our Morant, SGA or even Darius Garland without tanking & limted trade resources to do anything more than ride a treadmill?

What's the problem? How about drafting well?

If we'd had the #10 pick in...

2009 we could have had Jrue Holiday.
In 2010, make it Paul George
In 2011 Kawhi Leonard
In 2012 Draymond Green
'13 -- Giannis
'14 -- Nikola Jokic
'15 -- Devin Booker
'16 -- Damontas Sabonis
'17 -- Donovan Mitchell
'18 -- SGA
'19 -- Brandon Clarke
'20 -- Tyrese Halliburton
'21 -- Trey Murphy
'22 -- Tari Eason

& I'm sure I could supply a second list &, a 3d list as well, at the same #10 spot -- each of which would suffice to establish us as one of the best teams in the league.


This season there will LIKELY be a future star selected after pick 10.
Tre Johnson is the future of the Wizards.
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Re: Line-ups, rotation, analysis thread. 

Post#1269 » by tleikheen » Sat Dec 31, 2022 9:13 am

1st round pick (24 yrs old) Hachimura 29 minutes 16pts/7 rebs
!st round pick (23 yrs old) Kispert 38 minutes 11pts/5rebs
1st round pick (21 yrs old) Deni Avidja 28 minutes 13 pts/7 regs /6 assists
another young player (23 yrs old) Gafford 26 minutes 11 pts/8 rebs/4 blocks

Our young players get alot of flack as failures and the spotlight shines on KP ,Kuz and Beal (rightfully so) but the young guys are stepping up.
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Re: Line-ups, rotation, analysis thread. 

Post#1270 » by leswizards » Sat Dec 31, 2022 11:57 am

For a long time, I have been saying give Gafford more minutes, and you get the chorus of he and kp can’t be on the court at the same time. He starts the last 2 games, and the Wizards get 2 of their 3 biggest wins of the season. Of course, it was against bad teams. Still, I like it.
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Re: Line-ups, rotation, analysis thread. 

Post#1271 » by nate33 » Sat Dec 31, 2022 2:30 pm

leswizards wrote:For a long time, I have been saying give Gafford more minutes, and you get the chorus of he and kp can’t be on the court at the same time. He starts the last 2 games, and the Wizards get 2 of their 3 biggest wins of the season. Of course, it was against bad teams. Still, I like it.

FWIW, the Wizards were +10 in the 13 minutes where Porzingis and Gafford shared the floor, and +9 in the 35 minutes that only 1 of them was on the floor.

My general impression isn't so much that Gafford and Porzingis have some unique chemistry that makes the twin towers duo extremely effective. It's simply that Gafford is a good player and should be playing 25-30 minutes rather than just the 15 minutes that Porzingis sits. Also, the extra minutes that Gafford is getting seems to be coming from Will Barton, which is obviously a good thing.
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Re: Line-ups, rotation, analysis thread. 

Post#1272 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Sat Dec 31, 2022 2:32 pm

tleikheen wrote:1st round pick (24 yrs old) Hachimura 29 minutes 16pts/7 rebs
!st round pick (23 yrs old) Kispert 38 minutes 11pts/5rebs
1st round pick (21 yrs old) Deni Avidja 28 minutes 13 pts/7 regs /6 assists
another young player (23 yrs old) Gafford 26 minutes 11 pts/8 rebs/4 blocks

Our young players get alot of flack as failures and the spotlight shines on KP ,Kuz and Beal (rightfully so) but the young guys are stepping up.


Huge +1

Also, TOMMY SHEPPARD drafted them. TED LEONSIS chose to retain HIS GM.

I think ONCE WES JR PLAYED THE RIGHT PLAYERS
(Big Lineup)
(No emphasized Beal bal isos)
(More letting Kuzma and Advidja handle the ball)

Combined with WRIGHT (a Tommy FA add)

Now the pieces are in place, tlekheen is correct;

Young guys are stepping up.
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Re: Line-ups, rotation, analysis thread. 

Post#1273 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Sat Dec 31, 2022 2:32 pm

It’s okay to go from COMPLETE NEGATIVE to positive outlook
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Re: Line-ups, rotation, analysis thread. 

Post#1274 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Sat Dec 31, 2022 2:33 pm

Porzingis

Is a beast
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Re: Line-ups, rotation, analysis thread. 

Post#1275 » by payitforward » Sun Jan 1, 2023 1:01 am

tleikheen wrote:1st round pick (24 yrs old) Hachimura 29 minutes 16pts/7 rebs
!st round pick (23 yrs old) Kispert 38 minutes 11pts/5rebs
1st round pick (21 yrs old) Deni Avidja 28 minutes 13 pts/7 regs /6 assists
another young player (23 yrs old) Gafford 26 minutes 11 pts/8 rebs/4 blocks

Our young players get alot of flack as failures and the spotlight shines on KP ,Kuz and Beal (rightfully so) but the young guys are stepping up.

An excellent point -- it's especially nice to see it from Rui.
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Re: Line-ups, rotation, analysis thread. 

Post#1276 » by tleikheen » Sun Jan 1, 2023 8:45 pm

Quietly but surely Deni is turning a corner .He is ready to attack the basket more and shooting without hesitation. This isnt to say he's going to turn in to high quality offensive player but he is becoming efficient. His forte will be that glue guy ,doing everything else that helps win games .
I get excited seeing him paired up with Rui who has that scorers mentality but Deni is stronger in the intangibles. Also we're seeing Rui,Deni,Kuz and KP on the court together and the ball still moves amongst them .
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Re: Line-ups, rotation, analysis thread. 

Post#1277 » by nate33 » Sun Jan 1, 2023 9:02 pm

tleikheen wrote:Quietly but surely Deni is turning a corner .He is ready to attack the basket more and shooting without hesitation. This isnt to say he's going to turn in to high quality offensive player but he is becoming efficient. His forte will be that glue guy ,doing everything else that helps win games .
I get excited seeing him paired up with Rui who has that scorers mentality but Deni is stronger in the intangibles. Also we're seeing Rui,Deni,Kuz and KP on the court together and the ball still moves amongst them .

Avdija always seems to play better when there is an injury to the backcourt so he gets to fill in as a secondary ball handler.
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Re: Line-ups, rotation, analysis thread. 

Post#1278 » by Dat2U » Sun Jan 1, 2023 9:23 pm

nate33 wrote:
tleikheen wrote:Quietly but surely Deni is turning a corner .He is ready to attack the basket more and shooting without hesitation. This isnt to say he's going to turn in to high quality offensive player but he is becoming efficient. His forte will be that glue guy ,doing everything else that helps win games .
I get excited seeing him paired up with Rui who has that scorers mentality but Deni is stronger in the intangibles. Also we're seeing Rui,Deni,Kuz and KP on the court together and the ball still moves amongst them .

Avdija always seems to play better when there is an injury to the backcourt so he gets to fill in as a secondary ball handler.


So maybe dealing Kuz unlocks his game.
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Re: Line-ups, rotation, analysis thread. 

Post#1279 » by nate33 » Sun Jan 1, 2023 9:38 pm

Dat2U wrote:
nate33 wrote:
tleikheen wrote:Quietly but surely Deni is turning a corner .He is ready to attack the basket more and shooting without hesitation. This isnt to say he's going to turn in to high quality offensive player but he is becoming efficient. His forte will be that glue guy ,doing everything else that helps win games .
I get excited seeing him paired up with Rui who has that scorers mentality but Deni is stronger in the intangibles. Also we're seeing Rui,Deni,Kuz and KP on the court together and the ball still moves amongst them .

Avdija always seems to play better when there is an injury to the backcourt so he gets to fill in as a secondary ball handler.


So maybe dealing Kuz unlocks his game.

Perhaps.

But we will miss some of the things that Kuzma does. I know the efficiency isn't there, but he is one of the few guys that can take the ball straight to the rim in transition or against a slow weakside rotation.

I understand the Kuzma detractors. And maybe trading him is the thing to do. But I also think Kuzma is a real talented player who can be a winning player if he just scales down the usage a little bit. He is the kind of guy that can do some stuff in a playoff game. And you need that once teams have sniffed out all of your offensive gimmicks and have ultimately neutralized your role players.
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Re: Line-ups, rotation, analysis thread. 

Post#1280 » by DCZards » Sun Jan 1, 2023 11:04 pm

Yup…lower usage, better shot discipline…and Kuz absolutely becomes the kind of talent you need to win in the NBA. Those teams looking to trade for him know that.

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