2012 NBA Draft - Part II

[Dat2U]

Craft's lateral quickness is ridiculous. He does have all-NBA defensive potential but offensively he's looks like the next Eric Snow.

[Nivek]

Craft's lateral quickness is ridiculous. He does have all-NBA defensive potential but offensively he's looks like the next Eric Snow.

I agree on all counts. If he's selective enough on offense, I think he could have a long career as a backup PG. If I could give him some advice, I'd tell him to shoot a gazillion NBA threes per day starting now. He's already a good passer and an outstanding defender, and he finishes inside reasonably well. Add the deep ball and he'd make a solid player for someone coming off the bench.

[truwizfan4evr]

Watching that video we don't have to worry about Anthony Davis not joining the nba draft. WE will have the second most ping pong balls in this year draft. If new Orleans has a better record then wizards at the end of season . So bob cats and wizards are the favorite to get him. Lets tank for Davis

[Dark Faze]

Davis/Thomas + Lamb would be fantastic for us. We need to see if we can deal some players to grab a top 6 pick. Between Ves/Booker/Singleton we should have the pieces to get it done.

[nuposse04]

I might be the only guy on here that would take a chance on PJ III if he was on the board at a pick we could get later on in the first round. Ideally I'd have a MKG+ PJ III draft.

[The Consiglieri]

I would if the player we got to go with him was a high BBIQ outstanding character guy (Davis, MKG, and Beal seem the best fit for that, and Robinson seems to have at least half of that), AND we amnesty Blatche. The room is almost fine, we just need to bounce Blatche and get a great coach and GM, and the room should be good w/a quality draft. But PJ3 if we keep Blatche and dont improve with our F.O. and say drafted Drummond would be a disaster.

Still, while PJ3 is in play for me on our board, there are a ton of guys I'd take over him, as he's just (for now) a bad fit for us, he'd be much better off landing on a team like OKC, or either LA squads, in New York, or in Memphis or Houston etc. He needs to go to a team with a great lockeroom, and leadership already in place. If he's the star of the show he'll wilt in the glare of the lights.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Since I read the SI, (4/2/2012), Final Four issue, about how Thomas Robinson helped Withey become a beast, I can't help but like Robinson more. He is a very hard worker and he's going to be a good teammate. He's the kind of player that can handle the position of team captain. He's a worker and a leader.

I still like the young talent better but Robinson is a very solid pick.

[hands11]

Craft is short, but he's freaky quick, very strong and has great anticipation. He had a better than 2/1 turnover ratio, and he was decent from 3pt range (.359) although he didn't shoot it very much. As far as converting inside -- he had a 2pt percentage of .554, which was 2nd best among PGs this season. I don't envision him as a starter, but he was fairly efficient, played smart, and his defense is for sure an NBA skill. It's not like I'd take him in the lottery, but I could see a team taking him in the 2nd round and then having him as a solid reserve PG for the next few years.

He's a future pro basketball player. He's just not an NBA player, at least not yet. I think it's fair to say no one works harder on the court in the NCAA. He has to develop a J to have a chance to stick in the NBA.

Davis better already have started stuffing his face and hitting the weights because he is going to be pushing around in the NBA if he doesn't.

[SUPERBALLMAN]

With our 2nd rounders I'm liking Doron Lamb and Hollis Thompson. We need shooters.

[jangles86]

Why is there no talk about Drummond on here? If we have a top two pick were going to select him or Davis, no doubt. The McGee trade was done with the hope we get a shot at Davis or Drummond. There is no chance we reach at two for Robinson, when we have booker. Kidd-Gilchrist is pretty unlikely due to the fact his biggest weakness is shooting....same as our franchise player.

Personally I'd be very happy with Drummond. We would start Nene and Serephin next year and have Drummond developing off the bench.

Centers with drummonds potential come around once every 5-6 years and there's usually only one or two teams who have a shot at them

Players like Robinson MKG Beal and Harrison are in the lottery every year. If we need shooting then we can trade our second rounders for a low 1st rounder and take William Buford from Ohio

*raises bat for 100 posts*

[truwizfan4evr]

Why is there no talk about Drummond on here? If we have a top two pick were going to select him or Davis, no doubt. The McGee trade was done with the hope we get a shot at Davis or Drummond. There is no chance we reach at two for Robinson, when we have booker. Kidd-Gilchrist is pretty unlikely due to the fact his biggest weakness is shooting....same as our franchise player.

Personally I'd be very happy with Drummond. We would start Nene and Serephin next year and have Drummond developing off the bench.

Centers with drummonds potential come around once every 5-6 years and there's usually only one or two teams who have a shot at them

Players like Robinson MKG Beal and Harrison are in the lottery every year. If we need shooting then we can trade our second rounders for a low 1st rounder and take William Buford from Ohio

*raises bat for 100 posts*

Cant really arugue with that. That make sense. We do need shot blocking. There shooters all over this draft.

[jangles86]

.... Although if Cody Zeller were to declare (highly unlikely) then I wouldn't be surprised seeing him sky rocket into contention for top 2. He is rated on a few boards as 2013's number 1 pick. He could compliment our roster massively.

I actually wouldn't be against grabbing Tyler Zeller somehow, if he were to fall to the 20's?
Both Zellers have great post game and are solid rebounders with great ball iQ

A euro prospect by the name of Even Fournier Makes for interesting reading. Great size for a 2 guard (6-7)with excellent Footwork, he sounds like a crafty mover as well. Might help Keveen Serephin ?

[Nivek]

Why is there no talk about Drummond on here? If we have a top two pick were going to select him or Davis, no doubt. The McGee trade was done with the hope we get a shot at Davis or Drummond. There is no chance we reach at two for Robinson, when we have booker. Kidd-Gilchrist is pretty unlikely due to the fact his biggest weakness is shooting....same as our franchise player.

Personally I'd be very happy with Drummond. We would start Nene and Serephin next year and have Drummond developing off the bench.

Centers with drummonds potential come around once every 5-6 years and there's usually only one or two teams who have a shot at them

Players like Robinson MKG Beal and Harrison are in the lottery every year. If we need shooting then we can trade our second rounders for a low 1st rounder and take William Buford from Ohio

*raises bat for 100 posts*

There has been discussion of Drummond. My opinion is that picking him that high will end up being a huge mistake. Kwame 2.0. I wouldn't touch him in the top 5. In my stuff, I have him with a late 1st round score (if I recall correctly), and that's based mostly on his physical attributes. His on-court production was poor for someone as physically gifted as he is.

[Ed Wood]

I'm not sure what exactly it is that would make Drummond such a rare prospect, honestly. Last year wasn't a particularly exceptional draft for big guys and you had three big men, Kanter, Valanciunas and Biyombo who weren't to me substantially less appealing. Biyombo is actually a pretty similar prospect in particulars as well. Both are mostly valued for athletic ability rather than actual on-court achievement. If anything Biyombo was a little more impressive in a very limited sample of play in Spain though we're talking about a very limited sample here.

In 2010 there was Derrick Favors, who seems like a very close analog of Drummond. Very athletic, not overwhelming in college, still quite young. Favors has been pretty good this year after an okay first year but he was also significantly better in college than Drummond despite also being viewed as a letdown, and also, as is the case with Drummond, having a less than ideal situation around him.

In 2009 Hasheem Thabeet was seen as a singular combination of size and mobility, and while he was older, he had also come off of a much more successful season at the same school. He scored more while shooting a higher percent, shot more foul shots at a much higher conversion rate and blocked more shots. If anything Drummond's year is closer to Thabeet's freshman season, during which he was viewed as very tall but not particularly noteworthy otherwise.

While I certainly don't regard these as gospel Ken Pomperoy's statistical comparison system has him pegged as most similar to (in order) Soloman Alabi, Trevor Booker as a freshman, Robin Lopez and Jackie Carmichael. The correlation scores are pretty solid as well, which again suggests that at least Drummond's performance is not especially unusual.

So while I realize athletic is the word of the day I'm not seeing it, what makes Drummond such an unusual prospect?

[SUPERBALLMAN]

Why is there no talk about Drummond on here? If we have a top two pick were going to select him or Davis, no doubt. The McGee trade was done with the hope we get a shot at Davis or Drummond. There is no chance we reach at two for Robinson, when we have booker. Kidd-Gilchrist is pretty unlikely due to the fact his biggest weakness is shooting....same as our franchise player.

Personally I'd be very happy with Drummond. We would start Nene and Serephin next year and have Drummond developing off the bench.

Centers with drummonds potential come around once every 5-6 years and there's usually only one or two teams who have a shot at them

Players like Robinson MKG Beal and Harrison are in the lottery every year. If we need shooting then we can trade our second rounders for a low 1st rounder and take William Buford from Ohio

*raises bat for 100 posts*

There has been discussion of Drummond. My opinion is that picking him that high will end up being a huge mistake. Kwame 2.0. I wouldn't touch him in the top 5. In my stuff, I have him with a late 1st round score (if I recall correctly), and that's based mostly on his physical attributes. His on-court production was poor for someone as physically gifted as he is.

I don't see taking him that high. I just think of too many instances of big men with impressive physical tools (size/mobility combo) that just don't have the desire or basketball skill. Guys like Kwame, Stromile Swift, Marcus Fizer, Chris Washburn, Benoit Benjamin, Michael Olowokandi, Darko Milicic come to mind.

I certainly don't see taking him over Robinson for example when Robinson is so superior in aspects such as effort, leadership, intensity, physicality, basketball IQ, because Drummond is an inch taller. I may be wrong of course, but I think it would be a mistake. I think we've had enough Blatche's and McGee's and Kwame's and I'm happy the route we seem to be taking with guys like Nene and Booker.

To me Davis, Robinson, Beal, MKG are my top 4 in that order. I'll be happy with any of those 4 and can see any of them fitting in perfectly with this team. IMO they all are high in character, effort, work ethic, bball-IQ, skill, upside, team player, defense, fit a need, and are the type of players we should be looking at with a high pick.

[Ruzious]

Some "experts" still have Drummond at #2, because he goes roughly 6'11 260 as a freshman - with very good length and athleticism. Going into UConn, he had a rep as an unselfish player who was adept at passing. Basically, the only times he got the ball at UConn was when he got offensive rebounds. Part of that was his fault for being a raw frosh, but I think the bulk of that was lack of commitment made by the team to work him into the offense; ie - poor long-term planning and coaching - and selfish guard play. He's also an excellent natural shot-blocker. Unfortunately, there was basically no development of his game during his entire frosh year, and it's hard to tell how much that's damaged his future growth potential.

[Dark Faze]

The rule I've always went by is that passivity is never a result of the system but the player.

I agree with the jist of what you just said Ruzious, but look at a guy like Perry Jones at Baylor or Barnes at UNC...guys who have the talent but have excuses for not turning it on or showing aggressiveness. Drummond didn't learn how to play basketball and was done a disservice by his HS and AAU coaches. He danced around the perimeter shooting jumpers. It's not going to translate.

It's very easy to go for potential but we don't have the time for it. Changing the culture means IQ/Effort/Skill over potential. Pass on Drummond.

[The Consiglieri]

Why is there no talk about Drummond on here? If we have a top two pick were going to select him or Davis, no doubt. The McGee trade was done with the hope we get a shot at Davis or Drummond. There is no chance we reach at two for Robinson, when we have booker. Kidd-Gilchrist is pretty unlikely due to the fact his biggest weakness is shooting....same as our franchise player.

Personally I'd be very happy with Drummond. We would start Nene and Serephin next year and have Drummond developing off the bench.

Centers with drummonds potential come around once every 5-6 years and there's usually only one or two teams who have a shot at them

Players like Robinson MKG Beal and Harrison are in the lottery every year. If we need shooting then we can trade our second rounders for a low 1st rounder and take William Buford from Ohio

*raises bat for 100 posts*

There has been discussion of Drummond. My opinion is that picking him that high will end up being a huge mistake. Kwame 2.0. I wouldn't touch him in the top 5. In my stuff, I have him with a late 1st round score (if I recall correctly), and that's based mostly on his physical attributes. His on-court production was poor for someone as physically gifted as he is.

No offense, but that's kind of nuts Nivek. Like your stuff and all the work you put in, but there's a reason he was rated #1 for the '12 draft last summer. He's not suddenly no better than 25th-30th because he had a poor year (like all of UConn) as a freshman. What the hell did Robinson due as a freshman? Nada. He wasn't near anywhere good enough to start as a freshmen.

Drummond was hugely disappointing, hugely, and the stories about him having a 90's personality (entitlement and crappy work ethic and motor) this summer are deeply alarming. There is plenty reason to be terrified of making him the pick, especially for us. However, he is the second most talented player in the draft, perhaps THE most talented, and that alone locks him in top 5, and reasonably so, and I dont disagree that he probably should go #2 considering the talent in this draft. The problem is that teams like ours and New Orleans and Charlotte cannot afford to swing and miss if we're at 2, and Drummond could be a complete whiff in a way that Robinson, MKG, and Beal are HIGHLY unlikely to be.

All that being said, again, he's probably the most physically talented player with the highest upside in the draft. It's absurd to suggest he shouldn't be going till the back end of round 1 to me. That's taking one of the key aspects of being successfull in the NBA (having the physical talent and athleticism to measure up and dominate as well) and completely ignoring it as an evaluative tool. Nobody in this pool has better tools for success in the NBA than Drummond. Nobody. The problem, unfortunately is mental make up, and motor, which is huge as well, but there are 1 million kids a year with great mental make up, motors, and skills that play the game that wont ever sniff the old CBA or Will Ferrell's Semi-Pro, let alone the NBA. How many kids are there like Drummond? This year? Two.

[The Consiglieri]

Some "experts" still have Drummond at #2, because he goes roughly 6'11 260 as a freshman - with very good length and athleticism. Going into UConn, he had a rep as an unselfish player who was adept at passing. Basically, the only times he got the ball at UConn was when he got offensive rebounds. Part of that was his fault for being a raw frosh, but I think the bulk of that was lack of commitment made by the team to work him into the offense; ie - poor long-term planning and coaching - and selfish guard play. He's also an excellent natural shot-blocker. Unfortunately, there was basically no development of his game during his entire frosh year, and it's hard to tell how much that's damaged his future growth potential.

I think he ended up at the worst school imaginable. UConn didnt have any leadership this year, the coach had health problems, no continuity to speak of, it was a completely unstable environment to try and integrate one of the top 2 most highly prized recruits. It just turned out awful for him.

I have no idea how to rate him at this point other than to say that We cant afford to take him at 2,3 or 4 but must consider him at 5.

At the end of the day, picking him and him busting for us is something that isn't remotely difficult for me to imagine, but its equally easy for me to imagine us passing on him, taking what turns out to be an above average starter, and watching Drummond become one of the two or three best big men in the league 5+ years from now. Picking him and passing on him could be totally catastrophic unless we land the #1 overall pick in which case I believe we'll be fine even if he does live up to his past hype.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

In 34 games, Andre Drummond shot 26-88 from the FT line. I did a double take, but that .295 FT shooting is correct. The young man made only 30% of his FTs. Worse or better, depending on how you look at it, Drummond only went to the line about 2 1/2 times per game.