Countdown to Ernie Grunfeld Firing

[hands11]

Booker outplayed Drummond last night. You would NEVER say that about Seraphin or Vesley. Those 2 are d-league calibre players.

Was Bookers primary match up Drummonds or Monroe ?

Now go look at the numbers again.

[TGW]

Booker outplayed Drummond last night. You would NEVER say that about Seraphin or Vesley. Those 2 are d-league calibre players.

Was Bookers primary match up Drummonds or Monroe ?

Now go look at the numbers again.

Booker was on Drummond, and he clearly outplayed him.

Booker had 10 pts, 9 reb, 4 ast, and 1 blk. Drummond had 4 pts, 7 rebs, and 3 TOs. Gortat was on Monroe (btw great coaching move by Whitman to put Booker on the more offensively challenged Drummond).

If Vesely or Seraphin ever had a game like Booker did last night, you would be knob-slobbing all day today.

[hands11]

You know I love Nene off the bench so lets not act like I don't. Its what I wanted before the season started. Well, one of him or Okafor.

If that's the case, then this conversation should be over.

If we all agree that Gortat should start. And we all agree that it's working to have Nene come off the bench, then the rest is academic. Booker is without question the only other person on the roster capable of handling starting PF duties. There is a gap the size of the Grand Canyon between Booker and either of Vesely, Seraphin or Singleton.

The only other conceivable option would be to start Ariza at PF, but then we lose our wing depth.

I'm comfortable with my original post on the topic.

[hands11]

Booker outplayed Drummond last night. You would NEVER say that about Seraphin or Vesley. Those 2 are d-league calibre players.

Was Bookers primary match up Drummonds or Monroe ?

Now go look at the numbers again.

Booker was on Drummond, and he clearly outplayed him.

Booker had 10 pts, 9 reb, 4 ast, and 1 blk. Drummond had 4 pts, 7 rebs, and 3 TOs. Gortat was on Monroe (btw great coaching move by Whitman to put Booker on the more offensively challenged Drummond).

If Vesely or Seraphin ever had a game like Booker did last night, you would be knob-slobbing all day today.

So Drummonds was the PF or Booker was our center ?

Booker scored 2 pts on Monroe. Zero on Drummonds His other 8 pts came against scrubs

[TGW]

^^^There was no positions out there. It was just bigman on bigman, and Booker won.

[DCZards]

I'm comfortable with my original post on the topic.

Don't recall your original post, Hands, so I'm curious as to who you would start at PF...given that you prefer Nene coming off the bench.

[hands11]

I'm comfortable with my original post on the topic.

Don't recall your original post, Hands, so I'm curious as to who you would start at PF...given that you prefer Nene coming off the bench.

First post on this page.

Actually, I would prefer he start, but we don't have the big man depth to do that. So I prefer he come off the bench so we have Webster and him anchoring the 2nd unit. Specially if he has a min limit.

My position was that there is no good answer. I was just making general observations about where the team is in a comment to another post.

But from other posts I'm made on the topic, my position was to keep it fluid. Its fine to start Booker, but if Gortat/Booker is getting crushed, adjust before its to late and don't bring that back to start the 2nd half.

Right now I see it as a discovery time. To bad Kevin can't play. They need that as a fall back when they go against big boy teams. He and Nene together with the 2nd line has promise. Ves should also get his cracks at it.

But the real answer is to get another better front court player if the combo of Booker, Kevin and Ves can't get it done.

Again. I'm fine with Booker starting there some night. I just don't see him as a very night starter at PF. Specially if Gortat is the center. Not against young big front courts. We win a game starting them last night. Doesn't mean its going to work moving forward. It didn't work well against Boston. It didn't work well against MIN.

[hands11]

^^^There was no positions out there. It was just bigman on bigman, and Booker won.

Ah. Gotcha.

Well for 6 of his pts those big men where scrubs.

[TGW]

Hands—I don't think anyone would try and argue that Booker is a long-term solution as a starter. The argument that's being made is that if we're going to continue to bring Nene off the bench, then Booker is the one you have to start in Nene's place because he is vastly better than Serpahin/Vesely.

If we could somehow upgrade the spot, then that would be great. But as of now, Booker is the best man for the job by far.

[leswizards]

The Wizards are going to be a .500 ball club this season, win the 4th or 5th seed, and make it to the second round because the east is so horrendous this year, and there are only 3 or 4 good teams in the conference. Ted is going to consider the season a success, and the Wizards are going to get stuck with EG for another few seasons even though he has blown nearly every decision possible the last few seasons.

[leswizards]

The Wizards are going to... make it to the second round....

If the Wizards do make it to the second round, hopefully they get hot and lucky at the right time and make it to the conference finals as well. Anything thing can happen in a 7 game series.

[DCZards]

My position was that there is no good answer. I was just making general observations about where the team is in a comment to another post.

But from other posts I'm made on the topic, my position was to keep it fluid. Its fine to start Booker, but if Gortat/Booker is getting crushed, adjust before its to late and don't bring that back to start the 2nd half.

But the real answer is to get another better front court player if the combo of Booker, Kevin and Ves can't get it done.

Again. I'm fine with Booker starting there some night. I just don't see him as a very night starter at PF. Specially if Gortat is the center. Not against young big front courts.

I believe it would be a mistake to keep the second half starter "fluid" making it some sort of guessing game for your own players. Players, and their teammates, need to have at least some consistency in their roles and the in-game starting lineups. I think that's why you rarely, if ever, see teams switching starting lineups at halftime.

If Booker (or Gortat) are not playing well or getting abused by a particular match up, I think you limit their minutes, assuming there's a better option.

I do share your view that there is no real answer for a starting PF when your choices are Booker, Ves and Seraphin. Although, Booker has been the most consistent of the three, especially as a rebounder, and would be my choice as the starter.

[TGW]

The Wizards are going to be a .500 ball club this season, win the 4th or 5th seed, and make it to the second round because the east is so horrendous this year, and there are only 3 or 4 good teams in the conference. Ted is going to consider the season a success, and the Wizards are going to get stuck with EG for another few seasons even though he has blown nearly every decision possible the last few seasons.

Isn't it ironic that in EG and Whitman's contract years, you have one of the weakest Eastern Conferences in recent memory? Several teams under .500 are going to make the playoffs, only to get destroyed by Indiana or Miami. Making the playoffs this year is simply false hope, and I think it would be a mistake to make a decision off of one year rather than 10 years of solid data.

But I don't expect Ted to make the right move. He likes to be "right," and he wants to be the "I told you so" guy in the room, so I expect him to resign EG and company.

[hands11]

My position was that there is no good answer. I was just making general observations about where the team is in a comment to another post.

But from other posts I'm made on the topic, my position was to keep it fluid. Its fine to start Booker, but if Gortat/Booker is getting crushed, adjust before its to late and don't bring that back to start the 2nd half.

But the real answer is to get another better front court player if the combo of Booker, Kevin and Ves can't get it done.

Again. I'm fine with Booker starting there some night. I just don't see him as a very night starter at PF. Specially if Gortat is the center. Not against young big front courts.

I believe it would be a mistake to keep the second half starter "fluid" making it some sort of guessing game for your own players. Players, and their teammates, need to have at least some consistency in their roles and the in-game starting lineups. I think that's why you rarely, if ever, see teams switching starting lineups at halftime.

If Booker (or Gortat) are not playing well or getting abused by a particular match up, I think you limit their minutes, assuming there's a better option.

I do share your view that there is no real answer for a starting PF when your choices are Booker, Ves and Seraphin. Although, Booker has been the most consistent of the three, especially as a rebounder, and would be my choice as the starter.

Of course ideally you wouldn't want to keep changing. But we are not in an ideal situation. And changing it up is what we did against Boston and it worked.

http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?id=400489266

No Kevin S is leaving their options even more limited. Specially if Ves can't keep his fouling rate down.

[nate33]

Of course ideally you wouldn't want to keep changing. But we are not in an ideal situation. And changing it up is what we did against Boston and it worked.

http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?id=400489266

No Kevin S is leaving their options even more limited. Specially if Ves can't keep his fouling rate down.

I still have no idea what you are complaining about. Booker started in the 3rd quarter in the Boston game yet you are pointing to it as an example of Wittman doing the right thing.

Wittman did exactly what we have been saying he should do and he is doing the opposite of what you advocate. He starts Booker for continuity sake regardless of circumstances, but is willing to shorten his minutes if the matchups aren't optimal.

[hands11]

Of course ideally you wouldn't want to keep changing. But we are not in an ideal situation. And changing it up is what we did against Boston and it worked.

http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?id=400489266

No Kevin S is leaving their options even more limited. Specially if Ves can't keep his fouling rate down.

I still have no idea what you are complaining about. Booker started in the 3rd quarter in the Boston game yet you are pointing to it as an example of Wittman doing the right thing.

Wittman did exactly what we have been saying he should do and he is doing the opposite of what you advocate. He starts Booker for continuity sake regardless of circumstances, but is willing to shorten his minutes if the matchups aren't optimal.

Who was complaining. That's not the opposite of what I said. I said I was fine with his starting, just pull him if its not working. Only real difference in what you are saying is you say always start him and always start him in the 2nd. Yeah. Ok. I'm not tied to the 2nd part like you are.

How did we get here from my post on the other page in response to this ...

After last nights debacle, where it was clear every one of EG's recent moves were poor decisions, i.e. drafting Otto, drafting Beal, thinking Gortat was worth a 1st in a loaded draft, Ted should can his ass. Instead Ted will blog about how clever he is for retaining a GM and a coach on lame duck seasons and how that pushed his team into the playoffs! Awesome Ted! Worst conference in sports history and you'll make the playoffs while being 10 games under .500. Party in DC!

[nate33]

Mostly right now, I want a new coach. Our offense sucks. Team isn't learning quick enough. Randy is supposed to be this defensive coach yet time after time I hear Wall saying we didn't play any defense.

He is in love with this pairing of Booker and Gortat which repeatedly get outplayed. Its just not a good pairing most night. Yeah Bookers line looks nice, but Gortat doesn't play well with him out there and the other team produces more then they do combined. AJ also always had a nice line. Problem is, he gave up more then he scored and him being a black hole on defense broke the defense down for the entire team.

Maybe I'm crazy, but that sounds to me like a criticism of Wittman starting Booker. And then when we ask you for an alternative solution, you say that Wittman is doing the right thing given his options.

[hands11]

Mostly right now, I want a new coach. Our offense sucks. Team isn't learning quick enough. Randy is supposed to be this defensive coach yet time after time I hear Wall saying we didn't play any defense.

He is in love with this pairing of Booker and Gortat which repeatedly get outplayed. Its just not a good pairing most night. Yeah Bookers line looks nice, but Gortat doesn't play well with him out there and the other team produces more then they do combined. AJ also always had a nice line. Problem is, he gave up more then he scored and him being a black hole on defense broke the defense down for the entire team.

Maybe I'm crazy, but that sounds to me like a criticism of Wittman starting Booker. And then when we ask you for an alternative solution, you say that Wittman is doing the right thing given his options.

Are you looking to argue ? Cuz I'm not.

I commented on a post about how Otto and Beal were bad picks ( Otto while I liked him early in the draft wasn't on my final list so it he breaks out as the best, I would be wrong there). I commented on our top ranked line ups of which we have 3 using only 6 players. That lead to me talking about our weakest rotations and what could happen to help them there... different players or add a new player. Right now, Booker is playing the best. He is the most reliable. I always said that about him dating back to preseason so nothing has changed there. But while he produces rebounds, etc, he often gets scored on a lot and if not him, he leave Gortat exposed to get scored on. Its not an ideal pairing. I actually think he would work better with Nene then Gortat. Maybe I am wrong there. Just a gut feeling.

I have taken the position in the past that knowing Booker is a pretty predictable in what he can do, that could also make him a good fall back, start Ves and give him enough opportunities starting with Gortat with Nene and Webster in the 2nd group. I would equally yank Ves if he wasn't working out in that position over a series of games as I would if Booker wasn't. Its just evaluating because I don't see the position as set unless unless it's Nene and most of us agree the team is better off with Nene in the 2nd unit.

I'm not just looking at one or two wins. I want to see these options evaluated. Not sure why that seems so hard to follow. Is it because its a measured approach and open minded ? Because it has nuance ?

For now, I get what Randy is doing and why. Its not hard to follow. He is going with what he sees as his most reliable option because he knows he needs wins to save his job. I'm just hoping he doesn't get to locked into it. Cuz when its not working because its a mismatch, its sets up an environment where the team get creamed. Not only does Booker get outplayed but it exposed Gortat and makes him look like rss.

I see the team as still growing. They are still gelling. And lots rides on Wall to make it work. But as a growing, gelling team that isn't winning a title this year, I want to see options evaluated. I don't think Ves, Kevin or Singleton are the complete lost causes like some do. Sure I get frustrated by them. But hey, I didn't think Crawford was a lost cause either. There isn't a right about it. I just want to see it evaluated. Maybe they are total lost causes. Maybe some feel they have seen enough. Me.. I haven't. I want to see this in these rotations with the players that are healthy and Nene off the bench. I haven't seen that yet. So I'm open to it. But I wanted Crawford as the starting PG last year when Wall was out. I felt he could do it.

I am also no close minded to Otto working out. Actually, I think he could break out at any time now. I want to see more of him and I see how that can open up some S4 line ups with TA at the 4.

Its just my preference. Not sure why that is an issue.

I wanted them to sign Randy when they did. I felt he deserved a shot. Since then I have seen a lot of things. He isn't that nimble. I like that he installed a defense and focuses on it. Just not in love with his offense or how quickly he makes adjustments. I think there are better coaches out there and I think we are in a better position to get one of them. It may be a nuanced view but I have a nuanced view. Guess that doesn't work for black and white thinkers. But it doesn't make it a bad view.

[dckingsfan]

You lost me at starting Vesely. And yes Vesely and Singleton are lost causes. And yes, Crawford was a lost cause in this environment. Vesely, Singleton and Seraphin will be gone at years end (caveat, they might keep Seraphin for the min).

They are all done - stick a fork in 'em.

Moving on...

[nate33]

Vesely, Singleton and Seraphin will be gone at years end (caveat, they might keep Seraphin for the min).

Yup. Vesely and Singleton are definitely gone. Seraphin will only be kept if the price is very low. Seraphin at least can fill a role in certain situations. The guy can play above average post defense.

It'll be interesting to see if his recent good play is just an aberration, or if it's a product of playing with Nene and is therefore sustainable. In the last 4 games, he has averaged 21 points and 9 boards per 36 minutes (TS% .622, ORtg 118). Obviously, if he can keep that up, then this is an entirely different conversation.