DCZards wrote:stilldropin20 wrote:
if we are not going to make this part "fair" then why do the rest? Why is education so important, than say leisure? Let me tell, i'm extremely educated. but im not part of the leisure class. I'll trade my education to be a part of the leisure class any day of the week and twice on sunday. In short, Ive heard no valuable argument as to why I should pay for some kids education down the block. No one paid for mine and i made it out of the ghetto just fine. and it wasnt the education. it was my exposure to living in my father's neighborhood and briefly going to prep school-not because anything i learned there. it was because i got exposed to a different lifestyle. and i saw that if if i applied myself "anything" was possible.
tall guys get to play basketball. handsome guys n gals get to be movie stars, and smart guys get to "get rich." Hot chicks get the rich guy. and rich guys get the hot chicks. big booty chicks get to be instagram models and dudes with big dongs get to be porn stars. whats fair about it?
there is nothing fair about it? So why are we so consumed in making little things like grammar school education fair? as if thats even possible because the real education begins and starts in the home with the parents. grammar school education barely moves the needle. now if you want to seize the wealth. im all ears and im all about it. and right after then you can make education fair. but again, its a waste of time. Kids that want to succeed and are willing to put in the work will find a way.
SD20, maybe it's just me, but why do your arguments often seem to contradict themselves. On the one hand, you're all for helping the little guy ("man of the people") and you sometimes sound genuinely concerned about the poor. Then you turn around and ask why you should pay for a kid's education and suggest that a grammar school education is not important.I WANT my taxpayer money used to help disadvantaged kids get a quality education, an education that will, hopefully, prepare them to be productive citizens and help them to rise out of the ghetto. And the evidence clearly shows that one way to help ensure that a kid is well-educated is making sure they have access to good early childhood education programs and quality grammar/elementary schools.
ok. addressing the bold.
i think i finally understand this disconnect where you guys feel like i contradict myself.
I am sometimes making arguments attempting to use experience, emotion, and sometimes strictly logic. and the logic part is the disconnect.
when i say...if (yada yada yada) then (yada yada yada). i am sometimes attempting to make a logic based argument instead of my actual feelings. and I'm asking for you guys to
engage the logic instead of the emotion or whatever personal part of my storyline you feel is a contradiction. I guess my personal storyline is more interesting than the politics? Well thats why i brought it to the table. To encourage you guys to engage (the logic).
For example when i say if we do not level the playing field with wealth accumulation, then why do so with education???? THAT IS NOT A RHETORICAL QUESTION. thats is a legitimate logic argument. and a serious question. I want to know why you guys believe we should put up some kind of guise that we can level the playing field with education. And i want to hear th elogic behind it. The basic question I keep presenting over and over and in various forms isis why are we pretending life is fair? Is it that hard to break it to your children that life aint fair? again, not rhetorical.
Not everyone is beautiful and not everyone is born with a 10 inch dinger and not everyone has wealthy parents. So why are we pretending that those are level playing fields? They are not.
and espeically when it come to wealth as opposed to genetics, we actually can level this playing field. We actually can close loop holes to hide wealth and tax trusts and individual upon death at high rates. even make it a part of the constitution as opposed to just the tax code. We could permanently level the income playing field. where genetically life will never ever be fair. and in education...quite frankly...that wont ever be fair either but
real success is more often about who you know and what ever genius(ideas) you may have. and "genius" is more about genetics and environment than education in my experience
So again, my question is...why is it so important to address some of these inequities in life and not all of them? Or why are we just interested in addressing some of them?
For the most part, I just dont understand the logic presented here. In fact seldem is logic even considered on this board. this board is about narratives and ideology. Which i get. i do. perfectly. But i think its extremely lazy. the logic is lazy. So lazy, that i dont think you guys think about these things even a little bit sometimes.
Like fairness for example. what exactly is the hang up? Do you NOT want to tell your children life aint fair? that's fine with me. All parents get to play God. thats how we set it up. But life will let them know soon enough. (and if I'm a millionaire doctor dating playboy models and I feel it. let me assure you everyone eventually feels eventually)
But getting back to the logic behind creating a "fair" world. The logic i hear most often is extremely lazy and of first and second order. No 3rd and 4th order logic going on here. and imo the logic used here often does little more than put bandaids on on deep rooted complex issues like heart disease. and IF your neighbors with different ideologies to "pay for those band aids" there has to be some logic as to why. and frankly some of us dont think band aids are appropriate and dont want to send good money after bad.
that does not mean we(I) dont believe in education. I do. very much so.
Let me explain. Education to me is more than the just the ABC's and 1,2,3's. "education" to me means preparing a child for adulthood by giving them the backbone of a learning basis on which to build.
But not everyone has the will power nor the memory nor the determination to be a PhD or MD or DDS. Or engineer. lawyer. Education is not the key for everyone not necessarily in the traditional sense(for everyone). And we need people to do different jobs. the whole USE cant be just doctors. we need plumbers and dishwashers too. Some people are better with their hands and bodies. Some people's long term success is better served developing personalities and for some its their bodies (in this new world of social media).
So I dont mean to imply that we dont need to educate people. and i didn't think that i did imply that. There is baseline level of education and i think we provide that. I'm not saying all kids receive it. I will raise my hand and say that i did not receive that education. I had issues and ADHD and i was extremely immature as well as the youngest kid in class. I struggled to keep up early on simply because i just wanted to have fun in class and i was not interested in learning yet. Not until much later in life. But the base line education was certainly there for me to receive.[/b] Even in the crumby schools. But it was harder to receive it there because really bad kids distracted teachers and kept the rest of the kids from learning. But again the education was there. bad kids from really bad houses screwed that up though. not the education system
Still, some people had waaaaaaaay better education opportunities than i received. Like Say Ivanka Trump. She was educated far better than i ever was. But I'm just wondering why "we" are so convinced that should have had the same education as Ivanka? what have my parents done to deserve that for my me???? And again, by education, i mean all of it. I did not have the access to the white house, to uber wealthy investment bankers willing to invest in me just based on my last name alone, talent agencies, anything, and all of it!!! All that comes with being a "Trump" or a Clinton or Bezos etc. I never got that. But i did get a solid baseline education(al) opportunity. and ended up a Doctor.
and none of you guys care that Ivanka got a better education than me, Right? You dont care and and frankly you shouldn't.
so why is it so important that a kid from a family that brings in 15K per year get the same access, priveledge, exerience as akid who parent earn $80k? why is it so important to attempt to level this playing field but not level the palying field between me and ivanka trump? Keep in mind I grew up with parents that at times(years) brought in less than $15K. So not only did I not get the full ivanka experience and access. I didn't even get the police officer down the street level of access and opportunities (not the entire time and in fact rarely).
so what exactly is this fuss about? especially if we are never ever going to actually level the playing field? So long as we have elite and uber wealthy families this will never ever actually be fair. and the only way to level the education field is by leveling the wealth inequity field first. and you guys have no interest in leveling the wealth inequity field. You dont want to take the money back from the uber wealthy.
so why are we pretending to make it fair and equal on the lower end??????? The logic here doesn't tie in. Its not logical. its not feasible. Its not even possible. all you can do is to provide a base level of education. its up to the parents to make their children as ready as possible to receive it. And you do that by making money and getting out of the poor neighborhood. and by getting the bad kids out of the school system in these poor neighborhoods.
And thats your real problem in "education." parents are having children that clearly are not ready to be parents. education starts at home by teaching your child how to behave in school. so your logic needs to start here or at least address this issue. and this one is deep rooted. why do we have teenagers (15,16,17,18) having children? multiple children? and why are we rewarding this with entitlements? Why are we teaching human beings that having childrens is a way of life? we have 2 and 3 generations still stuck on this poorly designed welfare system. I spent the majority of my childhood on food stamps, free lunch, and welfare. Its a terrible nipple uncle sam dangles out there that encourages long term lethargy and self pity. generations of it.
and this is a tough conversation. most people that are affect by this type of welfare are not emotionally developed enough to have this type of conversation before their emotions get in the way of logic. and its never long before the liberal left is ready to throw out accusations like racism before you can even get into the meat and potatoes of this conversation which makes it even more difficult.
so
use your logic and tell me how you plan on making life fair and
most importantly why its so (proportionately) important to be fair at the (proportionate) expense of the middle class and not at the expense of the wealthy elite class? why cant my kids get the same education and life experience of Malia Obama and Ivanka Trump? Why dont I get to work in the white house? Why dont I get to inherit the Clinton foundation and Clinton family trust? All the education "bull crap" aside? I'm never going to get that, right? Jeff Bezos is never going to give me ownership in Amazon, right. And I dont deserve it right? Because why exactly? oh, because my parents were drug addicts? I got it. I already understand that logic. I got it when i was 15 and that's why I took charge of my own life and blazed my own trail. So i want to know what you guys mean about making education better? or fair? or more fair? why are we even pretending its fair? and why do it at the expense of the upper middle class or even the lower upper class
but never at the expense of the upper upper class?? why are they always
untouchable? Why is the leisure class constantly untouched and keep in mind, i want a more fair "system." I'm not arguing that it should not be as fair as possible. My argument is that if we are all on some type of journey to "the top," then why take from those that are barely out of the woods?
and I make this same argument about the NBA draft. their would be more teams that could compete for championships if we didn't give the best players in the draft to the poorest teams who often are not trying to win. Instead, we should award the best 9th seeds with the number 1 and 2 picks. and 10th seeds with the 3rd and 4th. and reward the playoff teams with a significant amount of MORE money. hear me out. you put 20% of the entire salary pool into escrow and award it to the playoff teams with the top teams getting the lions share of that extra 20%. You solve tanking, days off, effort, energy, everything. you solve it all right there. teams at the bottom will fight significantly harder to make the playoffs. sign more vets. etc. teams will fight for that 20%. then you award the best teams to not make the playoffs with the top picks in the draft which will help those teams fight to make the playoffs the following year and get that extra 20%. and you reward coahcing and ownership the same way with that extra 20% of league revenue. then You award the bottom teams with a tiny bit more cap space to go after free agents and give them all the later first and a lot of the 2nd round picks. Crap ownership with crap management wont make money and will be forced to sell their teams.
instead we have a system where top talent goes to bottom feeder teams like sacramento and the palyers do nothing more but learn how to lose. Its very difficult to not be the Kings year in and year out and there is little incentive for them to not just accept their profitable TV deal money (entitlements) and barely try year in and year out as they get stuck developing young guys instead of just playing solid basketball with vets.
anyway. that's my 2 cents.
like i said, its a full rebuild.
