Political Roundtable Part XVIII

[stilldropin20]

I think the money laundering piece will be the big drop. I can't even fathom what Mueller and his team have dug up. Keep in mind the FBI have also been tracking Trump's business dealings as well. Trump's biggest mistake was to take on the intelligence community with the amount of corruption he's involved with.

I think his mistake was running for POTUS. I don't think he thought he would win

I don't think Melania thought DT would win either...and for news to come out about his multiple affairs.

You can tell the First Lady is pissed. But as SD20 pointed out a few pages back...women have every right to display and express their feelings.

I don’t know man. I think Donald Trump has better numbers than you guys give him credit.

he went to Michigan. He hadno business winning Michigan went to Wisconsin.


The Mann campaign18 hours a day at 70years old. Five stops per day for the last week before the election that’s a lot of time on a plane for an old **** man.

Doesn’t sound like somebody who thought he would lose to me.

And this is why there are trumpeters like me. You guys have not caught onto the fact [and I think I might be able to speak for Nate is well ]but you guys are not caught onto the fact that we don’t necessarily like trump the person as much as we like the idea of trump. we want our political system is open outsiders.

Because I think Donald Trump will tell us the truth Maybe not immediately but eventually we’re going to learn the truth about some things that I think we should know. and the government is supposed to work for us so they owe us the truth. I just don’t think we’re going to get the truth though from established politicians.

We give each other **** on here.But This entire group is pretty capable of using their imagination figuring stuff out. You guys are collectively pretty intelligent. But

I want the game to be open outsiders running for local president so long as they’re prepared we could talk all day long about Donald chomp not being prepared to play politics especially with the outgoing a ministration he did not understand that he had a clean

Anyway I’m at above and beyond and still texted you ****


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

[cammac]

© Provided by thecanadianpress.com
VANCOUVER - A Vancouver illustrator said she's overwhelmed by the social media response to her cartoon depicting a victim of the recent school shooting in Florida.

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/vancouver-artists-shooting-cartoon-resonates/ar-BBJg10R?li=AAadgLE&ocid=spartandhp

[Zonkerbl]

Reminder, Nixon was brought-down on obstruction, Trump obstructing is an area that Mueller has been very aggressive in investigating.

The circumstances matter. If it turns out that Trump "obstructed" an investigation that didn't have any original crime, there won't be any impeachment.

Setting a precedent that it is ok for a President to shut down an investigation into legit crimes with national security consequences for political purposes? Think carefully Nate - what’s good for the goose is good for the gander. Suppose the next democratic president in 2020 shuts down an FBI investigation into killary- you would not be ok with that.

Trump was wrong to fire Comey. This investigation has already lasted an extra three months because of it. There has to be consequences to prevent future fascists from considering making the same mistake.

[Zonkerbl]

As much as SD20 and Nate want to use propaganda the net is closing in on the Trumpster.
This is just a small part of the package and it also makes mute the Trumpsters claims of innocence on behalf of Putin.
Shoes slowly drop!
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-02-16/mueller-is-said-to-still-be-investigating-collusion-with-russia

The great thing about these indictments is that it further deflates the limp balloon that was "The Memo" and wrests the narrative back to what this investigation is really about, which is Russian involvement in the 2016 election. Russian bots are looking pretty stupid on the internets, but deflection works-well with Trump supporters.

Yeah, this indictment serves several purposes -
1) it shows the investigation was 100% legit. Trump can't whine and complain about it because it also partially exonerates him - he didn't collude with *these* Russians.
2) Because the investigation was 100% legit, trying to shut it down is in fact obstruction of justice. The Republican quislings in Congress now will decide if that is an impeachable offense. We'll revisit the impeachment issue after the 2018 elections when the Democrats take over.
3) Since the whole point of the memo was to provide political cover for firing Rosenstein, these indictments blow the content and the purpose of the memo out of the water.

I'd inject a "3d chess vs. checkers" comment here but it's easy to underestimate the power of Trump's idiocracy. He'll probably wield his white privilege card with brute force and wiggle out of any consequences for his crimes - at least for a while.

[Zonkerbl]

© Provided by thecanadianpress.com
VANCOUVER - A Vancouver illustrator said she's overwhelmed by the social media response to her cartoon depicting a victim of the recent school shooting in Florida.

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/vancouver-artists-shooting-cartoon-resonates/ar-BBJg10R?li=AAadgLE&ocid=spartandhp

holy crap

[Zonkerbl]

Read on Twitter

F@#$ yeah we interfered in the Russian election. What's your point? It is our patriotic duty to push the scales of elections towards Democracy and against tyranny. Next you'll say we were wrong to go after Saddam Hussein. Or Osama bin Laden. Who Obama killed, by the way.

It is also our patriotic duty to prevent tyrannies from trying to tip the scales of our elections away from Democracy and towards ur-fascism. It's not that difficult a concept to grasp, I'm surprised you're struggling with it.

[cammac]

Trumps reaction to Muellers indictments were very telling he exhibited no anger at the Russians instead he used it as a feeble talking point about collusion. Even though simple minded surrogates picked it up as talking points rather than outrage against Russia.

Conducted political intelligence-gathering activities in the United States;

Hid their activities by setting up virtual networks in America that masked their extra-American communications;

Influenced the American election by using false personas to organize rallies for Trump, criticizing Muslims and spreading allegations of voter fraud by candidate Clinton;

Stole American identities to create controlled accounts; and

Destroyed evidence of their activities.

I have also heard nothing from Trump about the co-ordinated attack on USA forces and Kurdish allies in Syria by well equipped Russian Wagner Forces ( reality Russian Special Forces ) and Syrian & Iranian Troops. They were smashed and Russians had casualties of at least 100 and speculated many more.

Yet Trump has done nothing to in force the sanctions overwhelming passed in the house and congress and signed by Trump.

If any significant fraction of what is alleged in the latest indictment is true… then this tale is a stunning condemnation of Russian activity. A Russian organization with hundreds of employees and a budget of millions of dollars is said to have systematically engaged in an effort (code named “Project Lakhta”) to undermine the integrity of the election and, perhaps more importantly, to have attempted to influence the election to benefit then-candidate Donald Trump.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/2/17/1742323/-Trump-Will-Not-Act-Against-Russia-Because-He-Is-Very-Likely-Being-Blackmailed-By-Russia

[Zonkerbl]

I mean, what behavior other than being blackmailed explains Trump's behavior towards Russia? He can't say one bad thing about them or the pee tapes come out I guess.

[edit: Oh, I didn't know the pee allegation was that he hired prostitutes to pee on a bed Obama slept in. Oh for crying out loud how can you NOT believe that?!?!?!? That is EXACTLY the sort of thing he would do! I'm surprised he hasn't bragged about it yet!]

[Wizardspride]

Read on Twitter

?ref_src=twcamp%5Eshare%7Ctwsrc%5Em5%7Ctwgr%5Eemail%7Ctwcon%5E7046%7Ctwterm%5E3

[nate33]

Reminder, Nixon was brought-down on obstruction, Trump obstructing is an area that Mueller has been very aggressive in investigating.

The circumstances matter. If it turns out that Trump "obstructed" an investigation that didn't have any original crime, there won't be any impeachment.

Setting a precedent that it is ok for a President to shut down an investigation into legit crimes with national security consequences for political purposes? Think carefully Nate - what’s good for the goose is good for the gander. Suppose the next democratic president in 2020 shuts down an FBI investigation into killary- you would not be ok with that.

Trump was wrong to fire Comey. This investigation has already lasted an extra three months because of it. There has to be consequences to prevent future fascists from considering making the same mistake.

Setting a precedent that an outgoing political party can fabricate an unsubstantiated investigation and use it to thwart the next President's agenda is an even bigger problem. Even worse if they can then impeach the new President for "obstruction" of the fabricated crime.

[nate33]

Read on Twitter

F@#$ yeah we interfered in the Russian election. What's your point? It is our patriotic duty to push the scales of elections towards Democracy and against tyranny. Next you'll say we were wrong to go after Saddam Hussein. Or Osama bin Laden. Who Obama killed, by the way.

It is also our patriotic duty to prevent tyrannies from trying to tip the scales of our elections away from Democracy and towards ur-fascism. It's not that difficult a concept to grasp, I'm surprised you're struggling with it.

You are missing the point.

I'm not outraged that we are meddling in other elections. My point is that every major nation meddles in other elections to push their interests. The media is acting like this Russian meddling in 2016 is somehow a unique and dangerous attack on our democracy. It's completely normal. It happens every election. The only reason a big stink is being made of it is because it's a way to attack Trump and a way to justify Hillary losing.

[Zonkerbl]

Read on Twitter

F@#$ yeah we interfered in the Russian election. What's your point? It is our patriotic duty to push the scales of elections towards Democracy and against tyranny. Next you'll say we were wrong to go after Saddam Hussein. Or Osama bin Laden. Who Obama killed, by the way.

It is also our patriotic duty to prevent tyrannies from trying to tip the scales of our elections away from Democracy and towards ur-fascism. It's not that difficult a concept to grasp, I'm surprised you're struggling with it.

You are missing the point.

I'm not outraged that we are meddling in other elections. My point is that every major nation meddles in other elections to push their interests. The media is acting like this Russian meddling in 2016 is somehow a unique and dangerous attack on our democracy. It's completely normal. It happens every election. The only reason a big stink is being made of it is because it's a way to attack Trump and a way to justify Hillary losing.

Should I bother?

The media is not acting like this is a unique and dangerous attack on our democracy. Every news report *I've* read says that Russia attacks our elections EVERY YEAR but that this last year was exceptional. What the media storm is about is that while the attempt to manipulate crossed a line last year by breaking ACTUAL US LAWS (confirmed by a Republican appointed special prosecutor, by the way! Which Trump endorsed, somehow claiming that the indictments vindicated him) Trump is taking ZERO action against Russia and on the contrary goes out of his way to kiss Putin's butt every chance he gets. I don't have a problem with improving relations with Russia but Trump's behavior is *extreme.* Refusing to impose sanctions that passed with overwhelming bipartisan vote? What's that about? And don't haul out that tired bs about it being the "will of the people," Nate, you know that's a lie.

Not even going to respond to your tired hauling out of the old Killary whipping doll. For someone who claims to be making informed, fact based arguments, you inject a lot of irrelevant emotional bs into your posts. It's hard to take someone as angry as you seriously.

[Zonkerbl]

The circumstances matter. If it turns out that Trump "obstructed" an investigation that didn't have any original crime, there won't be any impeachment.

Setting a precedent that it is ok for a President to shut down an investigation into legit crimes with national security consequences for political purposes? Think carefully Nate - what’s good for the goose is good for the gander. Suppose the next democratic president in 2020 shuts down an FBI investigation into killary- you would not be ok with that.

Trump was wrong to fire Comey. This investigation has already lasted an extra three months because of it. There has to be consequences to prevent future fascists from considering making the same mistake.

Setting a precedent that an outgoing political party can fabricate an unsubstantiated investigation and use it to thwart the next President's agenda is an even bigger problem. Even worse if they can then impeach the new President for "obstruction" of the fabricated crime.

Every word in this post is wrong.

[Doug_Blew]

Read on Twitter

F@#$ yeah we interfered in the Russian election. What's your point? It is our patriotic duty to push the scales of elections towards Democracy and against tyranny. Next you'll say we were wrong to go after Saddam Hussein. Or Osama bin Laden. Who Obama killed, by the way.

It is also our patriotic duty to prevent tyrannies from trying to tip the scales of our elections away from Democracy and towards ur-fascism. It's not that difficult a concept to grasp, I'm surprised you're struggling with it.

You are missing the point.

I'm not outraged that we are meddling in other elections. My point is that every major nation meddles in other elections to push their interests. The media is acting like this Russian meddling in 2016 is somehow a unique and dangerous attack on our democracy. It's completely normal. It happens every election. The only reason a big stink is being made of it is because it's a way to attack Trump and a way to justify Hillary losing.

The US government publicly announced in October that it was "confident" Russia orchestrated the hacking of the Democratic National Committee and other political organizations of the Democratic Party.

You're ready to let that one go?

[gtn130]

The circumstances matter. If it turns out that Trump "obstructed" an investigation that didn't have any original crime, there won't be any impeachment.

Setting a precedent that it is ok for a President to shut down an investigation into legit crimes with national security consequences for political purposes? Think carefully Nate - what’s good for the goose is good for the gander. Suppose the next democratic president in 2020 shuts down an FBI investigation into killary- you would not be ok with that.

Trump was wrong to fire Comey. This investigation has already lasted an extra three months because of it. There has to be consequences to prevent future fascists from considering making the same mistake.

Setting a precedent that an outgoing political party can fabricate an unsubstantiated investigation and use it to thwart the next President's agenda is an even bigger problem. Even worse if they can then impeach the new President for "obstruction" of the fabricated crime.

What was fabricated?

Pretty sure firing Comey was real and the basis for the Mueller investigation.

Also, an aside: what kind of moron fires Comey when he’s innocent?

[gtn130]

I feel like the vast majority of these ‘Trump is innocent’ takes invariably have to also imply that he’s a totally incompetent moron to get himself into this situation as an innocent person.

[nate33]

The US government publicly announced in October that it was "confident" Russia orchestrated the hacking of the Democratic National Committee and other political organizations of the Democratic Party.

You're ready to let that one go?

No. Russia, China, and North Korea hack our systems all the time. Appropriate and measured retaliation is certainly necessary. I'm assuming we have cyberspies attacking their systems as well. But when your password is "password1", expect to be hacked. Also, don't fall for phishing scams. Oh, and keep your professional emails on the protected state.gov server.

[dckingsfan]

F@#$ yeah we interfered in the Russian election. What's your point?

A bit out of context but... Russia has tried many times before but unable to affect an outcome. What changed this year? Why were they successful and how do you stop it?

The answer is social media and hacking. Basically, the best hackers win. (Poke holes in this if I am wrong).

We just dumped how much into the military? And yet Russia was able to effectively undermine our democracy with a fraction of those dollars.

I think the point is that democracies that aren't functioning well are much more easily manipulated than tyrannical institutions at this time. And that doesn't have a warm fuzzy to it...

[gtn130]

The US government publicly announced in October that it was "confident" Russia orchestrated the hacking of the Democratic National Committee and other political organizations of the Democratic Party.

You're ready to let that one go?

No. Russia, China, and North Korea hack our systems all the time. Appropriate and measured retaliation is certainly necessary. I'm assuming we have cyberspies attacking their systems as well. But when your password is "password1", expect to be hacked. Also, don't fall for phishing scams. Oh, and keep your professional emails on the protected state.gov server.

What are your thoughts on 130 political appointees not having permanent security clearances?

Foremost national security threat of our lifetime superceding The Great Hillary Email Scandal of 2016 or nothingburger?

[nate33]

You're ready to let that one go?

No. Russia, China, and North Korea hack our systems all the time. Appropriate and measured retaliation is certainly necessary. I'm assuming we have cyberspies attacking their systems as well. But when your password is "password1", expect to be hacked. Also, don't fall for phishing scams. Oh, and keep your professional emails on the protected state.gov server.

What are your thoughts on 130 political appointees not having permanent security clearances?

Foremost national security threat of our lifetime superceding The Great Hillary Email Scandal of 2016 or nothingburger?

My thoughts are that the clearance process is too damn slow. I wonder if Obama people in the system are intentionally slow-walking the process to slow down the Trump Administration.