Official Trade Thread - Part XXV

[hands11]

Ariza + Singleton for Ed Davis + Bayless + Koufos

PG - Wall/Bayless/Maynor
SG - Beal/Rice
SF - Webster/Porter
PF - Nene/Davis/Booker
C - Gortat/Koufos/Vesely/Seraphin

I'd probably flip Vesely and Maynor and get a shooting guard.

EG can't draft, but he might be able to pull off a good trade. Then once we are good, we will have only late draft picks which will cover his weakness because last first round picks are a crap shoots and projects and EG is all about crap shoots and projects. He gets extended for another 4 year contract.

[Dat2U]

The more I think about it, the more I like this move from a risk perspective going forward.

Wizards trade: Otto Porter Jr., Jan Vesely, Kevin Seraphin & Eric Maynor
Raptors trade: Amir Johnson & Kyle Lowry

Benefits:

*Amir Johnson is a 26 yr old PF signed through '14-'15 who has improved year after year to become a solid starting PF. He's someone I'd view as a core piece and would try to extend him long term.

*A rental of Kyle Lowry who probably still has designs on being a starter elsewhere but would make one helluva 3rd guard behind Wall & Beal for the next five months (and ease the minutes & mileage on both)

*A cap neutral deal in which the Wizards can manage to stay under the tax line by taking on less than $320K in salary and won't lose any cap room in the offseason by swapping Maynor & Porter's deals for Johnson's.

*As long as were able to keep Johnson, it's a worthy deal. Johnson's presence would give us Nene's potential replacement long term and in the short term really strengthen the roster without sacrificing guys that are contributing now.

Even if Porter turns out to be a very solid player (which I still don't doubt), he'll have a hard time matching Amir's current level of play. Plus Amir plays the more important position and will play his best ball over the next 3-4 years. To me, that helps the Wizards win games more than anything else. Solid, consistent play on the interior... that more than anything else, more than the overpaid veteran locker room leaders, more than the hollow wins at the end of April after gagging all year long, more than the empty proclamations of playoffs or else which is laughable because in the current climate of the East, all you have to do to make the playoffs is not purposely tank.

[mhd]

The more I think about it, the more I like this move from a risk perspective going forward.

Wizards trade: Otto Porter Jr., Jan Vesely, Kevin Seraphin & Eric Maynor
Raptors trade: Amir Johnson & Kyle Lowry

Benefits:

*Amir Johnson is a 26 yr old PF signed through '14-'15 who has improved year after year to become a solid starting PF. He's someone I'd view as a core piece and would try to extend him long term.

*A rental of Kyle Lowry who probably still has designs on being a starter elsewhere but would make one helluva 3rd guard behind Wall & Beal for the next five months (and ease the minutes & mileage on both)

*A cap neutral deal in which the Wizards can manage to stay under the tax line by taking on less than $320K in salary and won't lose any cap room in the offseason by swapping Maynor & Porter's deals for Johnson's.

*As long as were able to keep Johnson, it's a worthy deal. Johnson's presence would give us Nene's potential replacement long term and in the short term really strengthen the roster without sacrificing guys that are contributing now.

Even if Porter turns out to be a very solid player (which I still don't doubt), he'll have a hard time matching Amir's current level of play. Plus Amir plays the more important position and will play his best ball over the next 3-4 years. To me, that helps the Wizards win games more than anything else. Solid, consistent play on the interior... that more than anything else, more than the overpaid veteran locker room leaders, more than the hollow wins at the end of April after gagging all year long, more than the empty proclamations of playoffs or else which is laughable because in the current climate of the East, all you have to do to make the playoffs is not purposely tank.

LOVE the deal Dat, but I don't think Masai does it. He'd rather trade Lowry and Amir seperately (and I don't think Amir is available) to get more assets.

Amir is a quality young PF. I think the asking price for him would be Porter by himself.

[long suffrin' boulez fan]

The more I think about it, the more I like this move from a risk perspective going forward.

Wizards trade: Otto Porter Jr., Jan Vesely, Kevin Seraphin & Eric Maynor
Raptors trade: Amir Johnson & Kyle Lowry

Benefits:

*Amir Johnson is a 26 yr old PF signed through '14-'15 who has improved year after year to become a solid starting PF. He's someone I'd view as a core piece and would try to extend him long term.

*A rental of Kyle Lowry who probably still has designs on being a starter elsewhere but would make one helluva 3rd guard behind Wall & Beal for the next five months (and ease the minutes & mileage on both)

*A cap neutral deal in which the Wizards can manage to stay under the tax line by taking on less than $320K in salary and won't lose any cap room in the offseason by swapping Maynor & Porter's deals for Johnson's.

*As long as were able to keep Johnson, it's a worthy deal. Johnson's presence would give us Nene's potential replacement long term and in the short term really strengthen the roster without sacrificing guys that are contributing now.

Even if Porter turns out to be a very solid player (which I still don't doubt), he'll have a hard time matching Amir's current level of play. Plus Amir plays the more important position and will play his best ball over the next 3-4 years. To me, that helps the Wizards win games more than anything else. Solid, consistent play on the interior... that more than anything else, more than the overpaid veteran locker room leaders, more than the hollow wins at the end of April after gagging all year long, more than the empty proclamations of playoffs or else which is laughable because in the current climate of the East, all you have to do to make the playoffs is not purposely tank.

If we ship out Otto, I think we need a young, two way big. Ariza's play this year makes me want to keep him. So, Otto for Len. Throw a max offer at Monroe, let Marcin and everyone else walk, resign Ariza.

Six nice core pieces plus two years of Nene.

Wall/ / Fart
Beal/ grjr
Ariza/webby
Monroe/nene
Len/vet min guy

[nate33]

The more I think about it, the more I like this move from a risk perspective going forward.

Wizards trade: Otto Porter Jr., Jan Vesely, Kevin Seraphin & Eric Maynor
Raptors trade: Amir Johnson & Kyle Lowry.

I'm less enthusiastic about that move, Dat2U. While I agree that Amir will probably equal or exceed Porter in terms of long term production, my concern is that Amir is an unrestricted free agent in just one more year. He'll either walk, or we will end up paying him a pretty hefty salary, which reduces his appeal.

I think the trade could have legs if we could ship Lowry off to another team in exchange for a longer term asset, but if we're the ones keeping Lowry, I don't think it's the right package for us.

[mhd]

The more I think about it, the more I like this move from a risk perspective going forward.

Wizards trade: Otto Porter Jr., Jan Vesely, Kevin Seraphin & Eric Maynor
Raptors trade: Amir Johnson & Kyle Lowry.

I'm less enthusiastic about that move, Dat2U. While I agree that Amir will probably equal or exceed Porter in terms of long term production, my concern is that Amir is an unrestricted free agent in just one more year. He'll either walk, or we will end up paying him a pretty hefty salary, which reduces his appeal.

I think the trade could have legs if we could ship Lowry off to another team in exchange for a longer term asset, but if we're the ones keeping Lowry, I don't think it's the right package for us.

Well, we could gain some assets in a Lowry S&T deal (although he'll get at max, a Jarrett Jack type deal).

[pcbothwel]

I still think the Ariza for Davis/Bayless trade is better for a few reasons.

1) Otto has higher value as an asset and a chance to be a better player than Ariza sooner.
2) Memphis has Davis as a 3rd big with no indication he will start, while Amir is the Starter for the Raps
3) Davis is a RFA this year and I think you can have him cheaper and longer than Amir.
4) If you compare Davis and Amir at the same age, you'll see the exact same player..though it should be stated that Amir had 3 more years in the NBA at the same age and was a more finished product at 24.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... 01&y2=2012

[nate33]

I never like the "all in" move to trade our 1st for Gortat, but what's done is done. With that move, we are pretty much committed to the talent that we have on the roster. We can make some lateral trades, but there isn't much we can do to boost the overall talent level, unless we get some kind of major steal in the 2nd round like a Chandler Parsons, or if we find a starting caliber player off the free agency junk heap like Martell Webster.

With that in mind, I'd like to see some fine tuning of our current roster. I think we have sufficient talent to be a quality, second round playoff team (assuming a little more improvement out of Wall and significant improvement out of Beal) but I don't love how everyone fits. Beal, Webster and Ariza are perfect swing men for a Wall-led team, and Nene is a good 3rd big/closer who can provide veteran leadership and late game heroics in limited minutes. The problem is our starting front court. I want a true defensive anchor at center, and a starting-caliber stretch four who can rebound. That's the combination that would help Wall reach superstar status.

So somebody needs to find a way to package Gortat + Porter + filler and land us a Asik/Sanders type of center plus an Ilyasova/Anderson type of PF. I want this lineup:

PG Wall
SG Beal/Webster
SF Ariza/Webster
PF Anderson/Nene
C Sanders/Nene

That's a scary team who can beat anybody if Wall is hot.

[fishercob]

I never like the "all in" move to trade our 1st for Gortat, but what's done is done. With that move, we are pretty much committed to the talent that we have on the roster. We can make some lateral trades, but there isn't much we can do to boost the overall talent level, unless we get some kind of major steal in the 2nd round like a Chandler Parsons, or if we find a starting caliber player off the free agency junk heap like Martell Webster.

With that in mind, I'd like to see some fine tuning of our current roster. I think we have sufficient talent to be a quality, second round playoff team (assuming a little more improvement out of Wall and significant improvement out of Beal) but I don't love how everyone fits. Beal, Webster and Ariza are perfect swing men for a Wall-led team, and Nene is a good 3rd big/closer who can provide veteran leadership and late game heroics in limited minutes. The problem is our starting front court. I want a true defensive anchor at center, and a starting-caliber stretch four who can rebound. That's the combination that would help Wall reach superstar status.

So somebody needs to find a way to package Gortat + Porter + filler and land us a Asik/Sanders type of center plus an Ilyasova/Anderson type of PF. I want this lineup:

PG Wall
SG Beal/Webster
SF Ariza/Webster
PF Anderson/Nene
C Sanders/Nene

That's a scary team who can beat anybody if Wall is hot.

I think the answer may be less exciting, nate. Rather than shuffling the deck around, the best path to improvement may just be to get better.

Charlotte -- CHARLOTTE -- is second in the league in defensive efficiency. Their top five guys in minutes played are Kemba, Henderson, Al Jefferson, McROberts and Jeff Taylor. Yes, Al Jefferson -- always noted as a defensive sieve -- and McRoberts (hardly ever noted for anything) are anchoring the second best defense in the league.

So maybe the real key is just to hire the next branch from the Riley coaching tree -- the Van Gundy's, Tommy Thibs, and now Steve Clifford have all built dominant NBA defenses.

I'm not opposed to upgrading talent wherever possible, but I think our current roster can perform better, particularly with some more experience to our young guys.

[nate33]

Charlotte -- CHARLOTTE -- is second in the league in defensive efficiency. Their top five guys in minutes played are Kemba, Henderson, Al Jefferson, McROberts and Jeff Taylor. Yes, Al Jefferson -- always noted as a defensive sieve -- and McRoberts (hardly ever noted for anything) are anchoring the second best defense in the league.

So maybe the real key is just to hire the next branch from the Riley coaching tree -- the Van Gundy's, Tommy Thibs, and now Steve Clifford have all built dominant NBA defenses.

Interesting. I had no idea Charlotte was playing such good defense. That is indeed shocking considering Al Jefferson is manning the paint. Food for thought.

[verbal8]

Trevor Ariza and Chris Singleton for Tayshaun Prince, Ed Davis and their 2014 1st.

Not a fan of taking on Prince, and I'm not convinced MEM would part with a pick considering their lack of depth and need to start planning for the future. What if we let them keep their pick and we get Bayless instead of Prince?

The Ariza for Bayless/Davis deal was well received on the trade board - it got an affirmative vote in King of the Trade Board. At this point(Ariza continuing to play well), the Wizards might even be able to dump Maynor. I wouldn't mind Prince and a pick, but I think Memphis is more inclined to deal players.

[FAH1223]

Ariza + Singleton for Ed Davis + Bayless + Koufos

PG - Wall/Bayless/Maynor
SG - Beal/Rice
SF - Webster/Porter
PF - Nene/Davis/Booker
C - Gortat/Koufos/Vesely/Seraphin

I'd probably flip Vesely and Maynor and get a shooting guard.

I know Gasol is going to come back but Memphis isn't going to give us two bigs.

[verbal8]

I almost PREFER his style of game oppose to Gortat. He's considerably younger and probably a much better defender. I know the Lakers have dreams of getting guys like Love or Melo (lol) so he might be attainable on a longer term deal. I think giving Hill say, 4 32 million dollar deal while paying Ariza would be far better moving forward.

It's not that simple. We'd have to renounce Bird Rights on both Gortat and Ariza to have the cap room to sign Hill.

With the amount of money he will command in Free Agency, I think it is a choice of Gortat or Jordan Hill. However Ariza and Hill could likely be signed in the cap space the Wizards would have available. I don't think that Hill will command $8 million/year.

[fishercob]

Charlotte -- CHARLOTTE -- is second in the league in defensive efficiency. Their top five guys in minutes played are Kemba, Henderson, Al Jefferson, McROberts and Jeff Taylor. Yes, Al Jefferson -- always noted as a defensive sieve -- and McRoberts (hardly ever noted for anything) are anchoring the second best defense in the league.

So maybe the real key is just to hire the next branch from the Riley coaching tree -- the Van Gundy's, Tommy Thibs, and now Steve Clifford have all built dominant NBA defenses.

Interesting. I had no idea Charlotte was playing such good defense. That is indeed shocking considering Al Jefferson is manning the paint. Food for thought.

Zach Lowe on the subject. Worth a read.

[Upper Decker]

Unfortunately I see no way Milwaukee does that trade. Players like Sanders, when healthy, are immensely valuable. Not only that, but Porter provides little to no incentive to down grade from Sanders to Gortat. Even though Giannas was the most raw rookie in the class and Porter was the most NBA ready, Giannas has looked like a potential difference maker, while Porter has looked like a bum. The Bucks wouldn't want a thing to do with Porter.

For the immediate future there are only three ways for this team to make a jump. 1) Beal needs to become a much more efficient player—as in stop settling for low percentage 20-foot jumpers and become more of a dribble penetration threat (possible IMO), 2) Porter needs to develop into player who was worthy of the #3 pick (unlikely IMO), or 3) Wiz trade Porter for a young big who needs a change of scenery and that player breaks out—Kanter, Leonard, or the like (not as likely).

So much is riding on Porter developing into a very good player. Being capped out and without draft picks his development is our only hope. NBA franchises just cannot overcome the failure of a #3 pick.

[Rafael122]

Ariza + Singleton for Ed Davis + Bayless + Koufos

PG - Wall/Bayless/Maynor
SG - Beal/Rice
SF - Webster/Porter
PF - Nene/Davis/Booker
C - Gortat/Koufos/Vesely/Seraphin

I'd probably flip Vesely and Maynor and get a shooting guard.

I know Gasol is going to come back but Memphis isn't going to give us two bigs.

Yeah, I was just throwing **** at the wall to see what sticks. I don't think Memphis matches up as a trade partner. Prince has 2 years left on his deal, and on the down slope of his career.

[verbal8]

Unfortunately I see no way Milwaukee does that trade. Players like Sanders, when healthy, are immensely valuable. Not only that, but Porter provides little to no incentive to down grade from Sanders to Gortat. Even though Giannas was the most raw rookie in the class and Porter was the most NBA ready, Giannas has looked like a potential difference maker, while Porter has looked like a bum. The Bucks wouldn't want a thing to do with Porter.

Rumor is that the Bucks are looking to move Sanders. I think their interest in Porter depends on how they see Giannas is he a huge SF or is he a PF? If they see him as a PF(even if he isn't there strength-wise yet), they almost have to deal Sanders and/or Ersan. Also it doesn't make a ton of sense to have a lot of money committed long term when your core is Giannas/Henson etc. You can also argue the Bucks current roster construction doesn't make a lot of sense

[Ruzious]

Unfortunately I see no way Milwaukee does that trade. Players like Sanders, when healthy, are immensely valuable. Not only that, but Porter provides little to no incentive to down grade from Sanders to Gortat. Even though Giannas was the most raw rookie in the class and Porter was the most NBA ready, Giannas has looked like a potential difference maker, while Porter has looked like a bum. The Bucks wouldn't want a thing to do with Porter.

Rumor is that the Bucks are looking to move Sanders. I think their interest in Porter depends on how they see Giannas is he a huge SF or is he a PF? If they see him as a PF(even if he isn't there strength-wise yet), they almost have to deal Sanders and/or Ersan. Also it doesn't make a ton of sense to have a lot of money committed long term when your core is Giannas/Henson etc. You can also argue the Bucks current roster construction doesn't make a lot of sense

I don't see it, because of the poison pill in the CBA. Sanders signed a 4/44 extension that starts next season. He gets paid roughly 3 mil this season. That means the Bucks have to treat the trade as if they're trading a 3 mil salary BUT... any team they'd trade him to has to average his current year salary with his extended salaries, so it's (3 mil plus 44 mil) divided by 5 years = 9.4 mil that they have to treat as taking in. It's possible to work something out, but you're going to have to do some advanced math and probably get a 3rd and maybe 4th team involved.

[verbal8]

Unfortunately I see no way Milwaukee does that trade. Players like Sanders, when healthy, are immensely valuable. Not only that, but Porter provides little to no incentive to down grade from Sanders to Gortat. Even though Giannas was the most raw rookie in the class and Porter was the most NBA ready, Giannas has looked like a potential difference maker, while Porter has looked like a bum. The Bucks wouldn't want a thing to do with Porter.

Rumor is that the Bucks are looking to move Sanders. I think their interest in Porter depends on how they see Giannas is he a huge SF or is he a PF? If they see him as a PF(even if he isn't there strength-wise yet), they almost have to deal Sanders and/or Ersan. Also it doesn't make a ton of sense to have a lot of money committed long term when your core is Giannas/Henson etc. You can also argue the Bucks current roster construction doesn't make a lot of sense

I don't see it, because of the poison pill in the CBA. Sanders signed a 4/44 extension that starts next season. He gets paid roughly 3 mil this season. That means the Bucks have to treat the trade as if they're trading a 3 mil salary BUT... any team they'd trade him to has to average his current year salary with his extended salaries, so it's (3 mil plus 44 mil) divided by 5 years = 9.4 mil that they have to treat as taking in. It's possible to work something out, but you're going to have to do some advanced math and probably get a 3rd and maybe 4th team involved.

It does have to be part of a bigger deal, playing with the ESPN trade checker it looks like it could be done with a deal in the 9 to 12 million dollar range. MIL has to take back more to balance out the Poison Pill, but they can take up to 50% more.

It gets a lot easier if you have a 3rd team with a TPE or cap space. For example the Wizards could send Porter and Harrington to the Bucks if a 3rd team will take Seraphin or Booker for cap space or a TPE.

[fishercob]

Unfortunately I see no way Milwaukee does that trade. Players like Sanders, when healthy, are immensely valuable. Not only that, but Porter provides little to no incentive to down grade from Sanders to Gortat. Even though Giannas was the most raw rookie in the class and Porter was the most NBA ready, Giannas has looked like a potential difference maker, while Porter has looked like a bum. The Bucks wouldn't want a thing to do with Porter.

Rumor is that the Bucks are looking to move Sanders. I think their interest in Porter depends on how they see Giannas is he a huge SF or is he a PF? If they see him as a PF(even if he isn't there strength-wise yet), they almost have to deal Sanders and/or Ersan. Also it doesn't make a ton of sense to have a lot of money committed long term when your core is Giannas/Henson etc. You can also argue the Bucks current roster construction doesn't make a lot of sense

I don't see it, because of the poison pill in the CBA. Sanders signed a 4/44 extension that starts next season. He gets paid roughly 3 mil this season. That means the Bucks have to treat the trade as if they're trading a 3 mil salary BUT... any team they'd trade him to has to average his current year salary with his extended salaries, so it's (3 mil plus 44 mil) divided by 5 years = 9.4 mil that they have to treat as taking in. It's possible to work something out, but you're going to have to do some advanced math and probably get a 3rd and maybe 4th team involved.

Yeah, they're not trading Sanders. They're not trading Giannis. They're probably not trading Henson because he's young and cheap. The guy to go after is Ilyasova because he's signed long term and is having a down year because of injuries and their overall suckitude.

I wouldn't want to give up Porter for him (I know some would), and I'm skeptical that we could entice them with a package of just expirings and Glen Rice. If we could, I'd be all over that. If they make Ilyasova available I think other teams are going to be able to outbid us, unless, perhaps, we include Porter.