Political Roundtable Part XXIX

[Zonkerbl]

Hilarious that Rand Paul is flat out, proudly admitting he is a white supremacist in public. Weird flex.

[Ruzious]

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Lol, Tucker starts out by agreeing that white supremacists are awful and then goes hey... uhhh... duhhhh.... what is a white supremacist, anyway? Maybe... they're ok afterall. How dare you attack them!

You can watch the Fox/Republican planned stupidity level rising one step at a time. It's a strategy.

[Zonkerbl]

Did Biden say he was going to throw white supremacists in jail? WTF is Tucker talking about? It's stupid - I mean if you want to criticize Biden, jump straight to defunding the police - "Biden said he doesn't want to defund the police. But he also wants to eliminate white supremacy. Can't do one without the other dude! Gotcha!"

[Pointgod]

Hilarious that Rand Paul is flat out, proudly admitting he is a white supremacist in public. Weird flex.

It’s like the guy that randomly yells out

“Who told you I had problems satisfying my wife?!”

These dumbasses are always telling on themselves

[pancakes3]

I voted for Biden. I dislike Trump intensely. His actions and attitudes likely have caused an additional 100-200,000 deaths of Americans because of COVID. But I'm not sure what the purpose of this thread is, particularly with the word "roundtable" in it. It seems more like an echo chamber circle jerk to me. For example, I believe there is systemic racism, but that CRT as a whole is a terrible way to address it. While I'm not to the point where Rod Dreher is for example regarding a woke technocracy leading to a social credit system, it has led to a chilling atmsophere in academia as an example.

When we now frequently have headlines like "Lactating Individuals..." instead of women or mothers is a symptom and signal of a culture that celebrates pseudo-reality. We have menstruators, chest-feeders, front holes, etc. We have Asian-Americans and other minorities being considered "white adjacent" or concepts such as "multiracial whiteness" to explain that the attitudes of certain groups are not suitably monolithic.

So perhaps there should be a change to the title of this thread that more accurately reflects its reality.

the last 4 notable conservative voices on here were:

SD20 who was openly racist, peddling bootstrap theory and how minorities are, as a monolith, welfare queens.

Da1andOnly who was religiously brainwashed to be a single-issue abortion voter, who felt the sting of our capitalistic-driven health care system, repented for 2 days, and was back on his bullsh*t about how he saw a bunch of black kids deal drugs at Gaithersburg HS, therefor all black ppl are drug dealers who deserve their mandatory minimums.

Nate and Popper, who are in varying degrees, having their brains poisoned by Fox Commentary - not even Fox news. Whenever a criticism of Trump pops up, it's only met with "obama did x, and hillary would have done y" instead of engaging the the substantive argument at hand. There's some tremendous psychology at work when Nate is able to be a fan of the wizards yet recognize its faults in players, management, and ownership, but fail to apply it as a fan of America, and recognizing its faults in its citizens, politicians, and leadership.

But I could write thousands if not millions of additional words on the absolute sham that the Republican Party is currently. About their lack of agenda/platforms, about their hypocrisy, about the lack of care for their fellow citizens, about their fellow man. It's a very intricate and deliberate system of lies that have been perpetuated for the past 40 years to remain in power. It's the party of the lazy man who needs to provide 0 solutions, and hide behind lies and norms.

And they're able to be funded to execute this because with a lack of solutions, a lack of regulations, a lack of oversight, corporations and the wealthy are free to do whatever they please, and they'll bankroll this as best they can. of course corporate dollars also flow to Democrats, but that's a hedge, in case radical reformists do seize power, centrists in the party will be able to keep the progress in check. No billionaire is going to give Bernie money but they'll gladly give Biden/Hilary money to keep the reforms "sensible."

But in parting, the door to this thread is wide open, and it swings both ways. Nice of you to poke in, but don't let it hit you on the ass on the way out. If you want to have an actual debate over quibbling over words - I'll trade you "lactating person" for Biden's recent proposal to change "alien" from the US Code to "noncitizen."

[Zonkerbl]

For many many years in the aughts this thread was dominated by conservative voices. Arguably it was a conservative "circle jerk." Now that members of this thread have proven the bankruptcy of those views, the thread has become less conservative, particularly as the conservative voices have quit the thread. Conservatives are only, apparently, comfortable talking with people who agree with their erroneous, alternative-fact based views propagated by Fox News propaganda. Conservatism has become a dogma-driven religion rather than a logically coherent set of policy recommendations based on facts. So yeah, the only people having fact based policy discussions in this thread are lefties like us. That's a choice the conservatives have made, to adopt a made up set of facts and, at best, cherry picked anecdotes to justify their biases. You won't find that here.

[Ruzious]

This forum is sooooo much better than it used to be. And there's plenty of differences between the posters. I've certainly learn a lot by listening to them.

[dckingsfan]

For many many years in the aughts this thread was dominated by conservative voices. Arguably it was a conservative "circle jerk." Now that members of this thread have proven the bankruptcy of those views, the thread has become less conservative, particularly as the conservative voices have quit the thread. Conservatives are only, apparently, comfortable talking with people who agree with their erroneous, alternative-fact based views propagated by Fox News propaganda. Conservatism has become a dogma-driven religion rather than a logically coherent set of policy recommendations based on facts. So yeah, the only people having fact based policy discussions in this thread are lefties like us. That's a choice the conservatives have made, to adopt a made up set of facts and, at best, cherry picked anecdotes to justify their biases. You won't find that here.

I still consider myself a progressive on some issues, moderate on others and conservative on some (specifically fiscal issues).

But let's face it, the Republican party did a hard turn toward fascism, white nationalism and a hard turn away from truth and science.

At this point as a moderate you can't support the Rs at even a local or state level - it is an inherently corrupt organization.

And I still think this is a problem for the long-term viability of the country. Either the Rs need to remake themselves or get obliterated and a new party(ies) need to emerge.

But I think that is going to be a very long road. What I am fascinated by is the group that admits Trump was a cluster but can't swing to the other side. They literally hate the Ds so much that they would have thrown away our democracy.

I truly don't understand this... I do understand the white nationalists and the single issue abortion folks. The rest, not so much.

[Zonkerbl]

It's perfectly understandable. If you don't like liberal policies, your only option is the Republican party. If someone were to create a third party to cater to fact based conservative policy principles, noone from that party, or the Republican party, would get elected for the next several decades. Our first past the post political system forces conservatives into this box. It's very unfortunate.

I suppose the conservative states could secede and then adopt a system in their new constitution that allows for more than two parties to exist. That might actually be the best way forward, with all the conservative states gone we lefties could abolish the 2nd amendment and do all sorts of things we can't do now, like defund the police/decriminalize drugs and non-violent crimes, get a public option, adopt a zero net carbon emissions policy, not die from covid because of brain dead conservatives refusing to wear masks, lots of stuff.

[montestewart]

Now let the arrests begin.

UNITY UNITY UNITY!

I think people who committed crimes should be held accountable. But I don't think we should be displaying heads on pikes outside the walls, if that makes sense.

Sigh...fiiine. *puts pike away*

Can I at least go pee pee on nate's front door?

No public urination, please.

[pancakes3]

i don't think the republican turn to fascism is even that sharp of a turn. it was more of a slow self-cornering driven by demographic changes and self-preservation.

While riding high on Reagan, the Republicans decided to not court minority voters (catholic latinos, culturally conservative AA's) and invested their time courting rust belt blue collars because they saw the electoral college and decided that a vote in Wyoming accounts for proportionately 4x as many electoral votes as a vote in California (80:1 population, 20:1 electoral advantage).

In the 30 years afterwards, an influx of immigrants from latin america and west africa has changed the calculus to where it's becoming increasingly more difficult to keep power, even with the disproportionate electoral votes from non-costal states, so they've forced themselves into adopting anti-immigrant, anti-urban policies, gerrymandering, SCOTUS gamesmanship, etc.

Their nominal policies of fiscal conservatism and reduced federalism has naturally resulted in a structure where they NEED consolidated power independent from the popular will of the people (authoritarian presidency, state legislature control for gerrymandering, SCOTUS) to retain power and it's just a feedback loop of consolidating fascist power so as to keep power from eroding.

It's no coincidence that Trump lost the popular vote twice, and Bush lost it in 2000, and only managed 50.7% of the vote in spite of a rally-around-the-flag, post-9/11 effect. A far cry from Bush Sr in 1988 getting 53% and Reagan getting 58% in 1984. They're ruling form the minority, and the only way to effect their policies is to scrap and scrape and consolidate their power.

And with that, fascism isn't even really the accurate description because fascists usually appeal to the worst instincts of the majority by scapegoating the minority. This is a slightly different breed of authoritarianism where the "majority" of voters don't want Trump or the conservative agenda, but the vocal minority through various machinations of our political process are given outsized power that they are functionally in the majority, as measured through political power. It's still anti-democratic, and it's still dangerous but there are distinct differences between how the GOP obtains and maintains power and how classic fascists operate.

They key difference is that the GOP/Trump has no intentions of seizing economic power because they're actually kleptocrats/plutocrats. Another way that rule from the minority dominates the will of the majority is with money. Corporations have an outsized sway on policy because their dollars allow for it. Trump doesn't want the American economy to hum, he wants its corporations to profit. He doesn't care about employment, so long as the stock market rises. He only cares about the strength of the dollar to the extent that it inflates his assets as leverage for borrowing cash. He doesn't give a fig about the purchasing power of the citizens, the quality of life, employment numbers, wealth disparity, etc. to the degree that a classic Fascist would.

And this isn't just Trump. It's easier for a guy like Rand Paul, Mitch McConnell, etc. to court a single corporation for campaign funds than to court hundreds of thousands of voters. And they can hide behind their "pro-business" facade as justification. When a democrat takes corporate dollars, they're corrupt. When the GOP does it, they have "strong business ties and understand the economy" when in fact, both sides are equally corrupt. At least the DNC has campaign platforms they're beholden to that would result in good done for the people. The GOP has no such platform and they can be corrupted without any consequence. Basically a Dem corrupted by money still has to pass populist legislation like Stimulus Checks, but bc of corporate pressure, they'll mitigate it by means-testing, or provide carve-outs for corporate interests. A Republican corrupted by money can just stonewall it like McConnell with minimal political blowback, because of "fiscal conservatism" or whatever.

[verbal8]

Hilarious that Rand Paul is flat out, proudly admitting he is a white supremacist in public. Weird flex.

It’s like the guy that randomly yells out

“Who told you I had problems satisfying my wife?!”

These dumbasses are always telling on themselves

Was that guy Trump?

[pancakes3]

i just read a clickbait headline asking rhetorically whether Trump would start his own political party and god i hope so. truly the anakin skywalker to the GOP's jedi council.

[dobrojim]

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The saddest part about this is that these folks can't fathom that
they did anything wrong.

[dobrojim]

I think the biggest cultural problem right now are people seemingly hand waving away 100-200k extra dead Americans in order to complain about critical race theory or headlines using "lactating individuals". One of those things is a real and major thing, and the other stuff is enormously stupid and minor.

Agree, Fox News has invested a lot of time and energy into magnifying "political correctness" into a huge crisis that is more important than all other issues - including systemic racism. I hesitate to even engage on this frivolous topic, since its entire purpose is to distract away from more important things. One thing I will say - if you think political correctness is a problem, or more to the point if you think having a civil discourse about courtesy is a *problem,* well, I strongly disagree with you.

Would love to hear anyone's thoughts on Critical Race Theory and what's wrong with it. I don't know as much about it as I should, would welcome hearing from both sides. I hope an anti-CRT stance is not just a euphemism for "I don't want to admit out loud that I hate BLM and Antifa."

Here's some Fox News anti-CRT propaganda:

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/legal-coalition-critical-race-theory

Nice anti-censorship stance there btw.

My daughter, the street medic, would love to join your side in any debates you
might end up in that have anything to do with CRT. She will destroy them.

[dobrojim]

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The foxies and especially Rand Paul, doth protest too much me thinks

[Wizardspride]

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[dobrojim]

Watch on YouTube

[Zonkerbl]

Wow, lunatic wing of the right really doubling down on censorship of the idea that white supremacy exists:

https://nypost.com/2021/01/24/biden-quietly-embraces-far-left-critical-race-theory/

[Ruzious]

From censorship to censureship... just amazing that Arizona Republicans vote to censure Cindy McCain and never gave a reason for it that came close to making any sense. It was obviously for supporting Biden over Trump.