Discussing Other Teams' Moves Part 3

[hands11]

Morey holds all of the cards, he doesn't HAVE to trade Asik. My bet is that some team will sweeten the deal by the
deadline and Morey will end-up with a decent asset.

I'm not so sure. And it's not just Asik, I think they are in the same position with Jeremy Lin. Two starting quality players at two of the toughest positions to find talent, and it seems like they can't move either of them (presumably due to the way the contracts are structured).

I think there's a very real chance they end up on the hook next year for $30M in cash for two guys they are using as backups in Asik and Lin. If anything, they'll find takers for them at NEXT YEAR'S deadline from a team that wants them for a late season run but doesn't want the full financial hit.

Then again, if the value isn't high enough, they might as well keep them as depth for their own potential playoff run. Then they'd watch them walk away for nothing in free agency like OKC did with Kevin Martin, and Morey would have essentially outsmarted himself.

Sometimes its hard to move player and get any value when everyone knows you have to.

Asik was taken off the table. Why ?

They want to much. Team are willing to wait. So is Houston. So nothing happens. Its going to take the right team really needing him to such it up.

[hands11]

I know we have pieces to move but I just don't see them pulling a trade right now.

I think this is a golden opportunity to gel, raise values, see players develop, and win some games.

[verbal8]

Sometimes its hard to move player and get any value when everyone knows you have to.

Asik was taken off the table. Why ?

They want to much. Team are willing to wait. So is Houston. So nothing happens. Its going to take the right team really needing him to such it up.

Yeah I think there is a big gap between offers and asking price with Asik. I think the rumored Boston deal is about fair, but that doesn't mean Houston feels it is high enough.

Since Decemember 19th passed they will be stuck with the players they acquire for the season(unless they trade them away individually). However they may feel the chances that a team ends up with a desperate need for a center(and assets) outweighs any potential decline in Asik's trade value.

[mhd]

WOW, Brook Lopez out for the year. Seriously, Boston should win that division by default.

[MikeTheKid]

Can we get Thaddeus Young??? He always torches us and he really could open up the spacing for Wall penetration. Maybe Tony Wroten too and we give them Fart

It's risky to trade for a player that torches you. Their own stats won't
look as good since they don't play you anymore. Then they'll probably
just become the guy their overall stats say they are, maybe minus a little.

guessing you weren't really serious anyway...Maynor has little to no value
and then there is the issue of salaries

Nowhere near serious, just a slight thought when I read the report about Thad wanting out. Sometimes I gotta get that quick thought out

[hands11]

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/23 ... tured-Hand

Wow. Another fractured hand.

And did you'll see TOR just took down OKC... in OKC

Nice win for TOR. They are on the rise. Nice trade they just made to move Rudy. Hell, they aren't even playing Novek.

[pancakes3]

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/23 ... -Via-Trade

???

[dobrojim]

posted in the TA thread as well -

can Stuckey play PG?

with apologies for going off topic - any interest in Stuckey? For a couple years after
he was drafted one slot before Nick Young it seemed like we had just missed the boat
again on a really nice player. But now Stuckey has seemed to regress from where he
was 2-4 years ago. current advanced stats -
ortg 106
drtg 111
TS% 541
efg 477

what jumps out at me is the drtg - higher numbers are bad right? that's a pretty high number.
Does it reflect reality?

[verbal8]

posted in the TA thread as well -

can Stuckey play PG?

with apologies for going off topic - any interest in Stuckey? For a couple years after
he was drafted one slot before Nick Young it seemed like we had just missed the boat
again on a really nice player. But now Stuckey has seemed to regress from where he
was 2-4 years ago. current advanced stats -
ortg 106
drtg 111
TS% 541
efg 477

what jumps out at me is the drtg - higher numbers are bad right? that's a pretty high number.
Does it reflect reality?

Here are the gory details on Defensive rating:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/ratings.html

He doesn't get a lot of steals and Detroit looks pretty bad as a team:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/tea ... vanced::19

He might be a good option as a combo guard. However it might be hard to match up a trade.

Ariza for Stuckey works salary-wise, but I would want a pretty nice incentive for the Wizards. Maynor could be dumped in the deal, but I would want more than that.

I think Vesley and 2 of Singleton, Maynor or Seraphin would work salary-wise, but doesn't seem like enough for a decent(if overpaid) player.

[hands11]

MIL could get good quick with some extra pieces like some pure 3 ball shooting.

John Henson and Giannis Antetokounmpo are two nice pieces.

OJ Mayo
Brandon Knight
Nate Wolters
Carlos Delfino
Larry Sanders - getting ready to come back
Zaza Pachulia is a big body center

If they get a good player in this draft they could have a nice core.

They need to find a sucker to take Ersan Ilyasova off their books

[Rafael122]

posted in the TA thread as well -

can Stuckey play PG?

with apologies for going off topic - any interest in Stuckey? For a couple years after
he was drafted one slot before Nick Young it seemed like we had just missed the boat
again on a really nice player. But now Stuckey has seemed to regress from where he
was 2-4 years ago. current advanced stats -
ortg 106
drtg 111
TS% 541
efg 477

what jumps out at me is the drtg - higher numbers are bad right? that's a pretty high number.
Does it reflect reality?

Here are the gory details on Defensive rating:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/ratings.html

He doesn't get a lot of steals and Detroit looks pretty bad as a team:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/tea ... vanced::19

He might be a good option as a combo guard. However it might be hard to match up a trade.

Ariza for Stuckey works salary-wise, but I would want a pretty nice incentive for the Wizards. Maynor could be dumped in the deal, but I would want more than that.

I think Vesley and 2 of Singleton, Maynor or Seraphin would work salary-wise, but doesn't seem like enough for a decent(if overpaid) player.

The thing is Stuckey is on the last year of his contract, so whatever Detroit gives up wouldn't be much. It'd be a swap of expiring contracts.

[pancakes3]

It's risky to trade for a player that torches you. Their own stats won't
look as good since they don't play you anymore. Then they'll probably
just become the guy their overall stats say they are, maybe minus a little.

Yeah but the glass half empty is that our defensive numbers will look better!

[Nigel Tufnel]

Excerpt from an interesting article about Lance Stephenson in today's NY Times. Are the Wiz like the Knicks - incapable of developing anyone but a top 3 pick?

"In a recent telephone interview, Konchalski said: “In high school, Lance’s whole focus was on scoring, on breaking Telfair’s state record, which he did. Now he’s one of the best rebounding and passing wings in the league, he guards multiple positions and his own scoring is almost secondary.”

Would such a transformation have occurred under the dropped ceiling and circus of Madison Square Garden? The answer might be the next question: When was the last time the Knicks really nurtured and retained a good, young player?

When he arrived in Indianapolis, Stephenson was not exactly beloved, and center Roy Hibbert described him with a rather profane noun. “He’d tell you that himself,” said Hibbert, who credited the former center, Jeff Foster, for “settling him down.”

As Stephenson put it, “A lot of good vets put me in my place.” According to Walsh, Stephenson is now the protégé of the no-nonsense power forward David West. When he crosses the line, he will hear it from West, Vogel and even Bird, one of the great trash talkers but in a more clandestine way.

“Everything he does is very efficient, instinctive,” Walsh said of Stephenson. “He can get past his man almost every time, and he has a great knack for finding guys under the basket and out in the corners, which is what we do, spacing the floor.”

[Silvie Lysandra]

Looking at the disaster that is the Nets, at some point, should we consider the NBA stepping in and pulling "basketball reasons" on every team? It is alarming the extent to which a huge chunk of NBA GMs simply suck, and not only suck, but continue to get jobs or keep jobs. We don't need to name names, but seeing that the league is taking such drastic steps to fix tanking, maybe we need a system where consistently bad teams get taken into receivership. Essentially, consistently losing franchises or franchises which consistently make bad moves such as multiple trades of first round picks or large, cap crippling contracts. It's certainly more extreme than anything any sport has ever considered, but you might have to do it just to save the sport or avoid contracting multiple teams.

There's a lot of Wayne Septiens in the NBA, and the NBA had to take decisive action to save Cleveland from the first Septien.

[verbal8]

I think Stephenson is a bit of a special case. A guy who definitely needed some guidance, but has the talent to be worth the potential headache. I think a lot of times players that need that much hand-holding tend to not be worth the effort. I also think that part of the key to Stephenson's success is that he was a 2nd round pick. This gives the team a lot more control in dealing with him, since he only gets paid if he keeps the team happy.

Excerpt from an interesting article about Lance Stephenson in today's NY Times. Are the Wiz like the Knicks - incapable of developing anyone but a top 3 pick?

"In a recent telephone interview, Konchalski said: “In high school, Lance’s whole focus was on scoring, on breaking Telfair’s state record, which he did. Now he’s one of the best rebounding and passing wings in the league, he guards multiple positions and his own scoring is almost secondary.”

Would such a transformation have occurred under the dropped ceiling and circus of Madison Square Garden? The answer might be the next question: When was the last time the Knicks really nurtured and retained a good, young player?

When he arrived in Indianapolis, Stephenson was not exactly beloved, and center Roy Hibbert described him with a rather profane noun. “He’d tell you that himself,” said Hibbert, who credited the former center, Jeff Foster, for “settling him down.”

As Stephenson put it, “A lot of good vets put me in my place.” According to Walsh, Stephenson is now the protégé of the no-nonsense power forward David West. When he crosses the line, he will hear it from West, Vogel and even Bird, one of the great trash talkers but in a more clandestine way.

“Everything he does is very efficient, instinctive,” Walsh said of Stephenson. “He can get past his man almost every time, and he has a great knack for finding guys under the basket and out in the corners, which is what we do, spacing the floor.”

[nate33]

Excerpt from an interesting article about Lance Stephenson in today's NY Times. Are the Wiz like the Knicks - incapable of developing anyone but a top 3 pick?

I think the Knicks have a pretty good track record with late picks: David Lee, Wilson Chandler, Channing Frye, Gallinari. They're a heck of a lot better than us. In the past decade, we haven't developed a single starting caliber player. Maybe you can argue McGee, but he does it on pure talent alone. There really hasn't been any "development" with him for his entire career.

[dckingsfan]

Excerpt from an interesting article about Lance Stephenson in today's NY Times. Are the Wiz like the Knicks - incapable of developing anyone but a top 3 pick?

I think the Knicks have a pretty good track record with late picks: David Lee, Wilson Chandler, Channing Frye, Gallinari. They're a heck of a lot better than us. In the past decade, we haven't developed a single starting caliber player. Maybe you can argue McGee, but he does it on pure talent alone. There really hasn't been any "development" with him for his entire career.

yep, even if we hit on 25% we would be golden. Even 1 or 2 players would be making a huge difference now.

It almost seems hard to do what we have done through the EG era.

[Ruzious]

It must be a great time to be a Hawks fan. They have the right to switch 1sts with the Nets (Celtics get the lower pick), and when Lopez went down, that was the nail in da coffin for Bwooklyn. And adding a star front court player at any position (since Horford and Millsap are versatile) could give them a great starting lineup. Teague has shown no hard feelings about the offseason negotiations to replace him, and they're 13-11 after nearly beating Miami at Miami.

[Kanyewest]

Excerpt from an interesting article about Lance Stephenson in today's NY Times. Are the Wiz like the Knicks - incapable of developing anyone but a top 3 pick?

I think the Knicks have a pretty good track record with late picks: David Lee, Wilson Chandler, Channing Frye, Gallinari. They're a heck of a lot better than us. In the past decade, we haven't developed a single starting caliber player. Maybe you can argue McGee, but he does it on pure talent alone. There really hasn't been any "development" with him for his entire career.

I agree that EG has done a pretty bad job in drafting outside of the top 3. Although at least EG hasn't aimed the Wizards towards mediocrity like Layden/Thomas when they trade their young talent for veterans.

Too bad the Knicks have had a bad track record at everything else in the past 10 years or so. For instance, they get a good find in Trevor Ariza in the 2nd round- but end up trading him for a washed up Steve Francis. They trade Channing Frye for Zach Randolph, who doesn't pan out until he gets to Memphis. They traded multiple lottery picks and fillers for Eddy Curry which turn out to be LaMarcus Aldridge and Joakim Noah.

I would say that someone like Gallinari shouldn't be up in this discussion since he was a top 5 pick but the Knicks could have done better with Eric Gordon, Lopez, or Roy Hibbert. I would certainly say that McGee at #18 was a better pick than Gallinari at #5.

[hands11]

http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400489291

Wow.

Will KG just retire instead of enduring this ? Hard to see any team wanting him at 12M a year for another year.

How soon before the rats start leaving the ship ? PP has to want out. Jason Terry doesn't want to end his career like this.

So poetic that Dray stayed there for nothing just to screw the Wizards instead of looking at moving to another team. Some with AK47.

Sure awesome it is going down like this. I could easily see all four of those players out of there before the trade deadline. But I have no idea what they could get for them. Pennies on the dollar. It all coming tumbling down.

And just to add to this, NY sucks and Cleveland isn't what the experts projects. At least not yet.