Official Trade Thread - Part XXVI

[Benjammin]

I haven't watched tonight's game, but that doesn't stop me from saying with a performance like this team needs to be a SELLER at the trade deadline. But we know EFG and Don'tknowshis will probably try to "tweak" the roster for a glorious first round exit.

[gambitx777]

NBATalk_Nekias ‏@ESPN_Nekias 7m
To trade Austin Rivers, the Pellies are willing to package D-League G Pierre Jackson with him. The Wizards are interested, per sources.

Oh please let this happen.. this would be awesome...

I can't wait for Ernie to take this package for Maynor + a 2nd and then waive Pierre

How sad is it that this is actually one of the most likely outcomes of this trade. . .

[likwitdesi]

Tayshaun for Webster and Maynor would be perfect for both teams. We get salary flexibility and Memphis gets a SF upgrade.

[jivelikenice]

I haven't watched tonight's game, but that doesn't stop me from saying with a performance like this team needs to be a SELLER at the trade deadline. But we know EFG and Don'tknowshis will probably try to "tweak" the roster for a glorious first round exit.

Ppl have suggested to sell but what would you get? Nene is untradeable. Ariza has value, but is it anymore than what you'd get by just letting him expire, using him in a S&T or re-signing him? Webster would be a salary dump where we get nothing. Gortat could get you a return, but again, is it anything substantial?

I would dump Webster at all costs and try to move Nene for ANYTHING. I think Nene has done what he could here. The need for a mentor to polcie the youngsters is over, especially with his lack of self accountability. After that, play Seraphin next to Gortat and play some small ball during games. Also start working in Rice at the 2 and Otto behind Ariza....The thing is I think we'd actually be better, so I don't consider this becoming sellers.

[Upper Decker]

I'd be selling webster. They guy doesn't try. He's a zero effort guy. No need to pay him 2-3 more years.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Real easy yes on Robinson/Freeland for Gortat.

Sink or swim playing Seraphin, Booker, Vesely, Robinson, and Freeland with however much Nene has left.

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So you would do that independent of an Ariza for Asik trade?[/quote

Yes. Gortat's gonna be paid. He's thirty and I think helps much more in the short run. I don't know diddly about Robinson's recent production. Same for Freeland.

The reason I would do it is Robinson at KU rebounded well and he's from DC on a rookie deal. I want Vesely and/or Seraphin to start like they did as Washington went 8-2 before the Okafor, Ariza deal.

Before Washington made disjointed, myopic, rookie-contract-hating, knucklehead-purging, moves were made; Vesely's potential was NOT to be bad at best. EG and Wittman really did a number on Ernie's kids.

I think Robinson was a 2 or 4 overall pick. Since EG burned the pick, I might n trust Paul Allen on both Freeland and Robinson.

I would do Gortat a great favor and pair him with LaMarcus Aldridge, Damian Lillard and the rest of a strong Blazers playoff team.

WHY NOT?

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[mohammed10]

NBATalk_Nekias ‏@ESPN_Nekias 7m
To trade Austin Rivers, the Pellies are willing to package D-League G Pierre Jackson with him. The Wizards are interested, per sources.

Oh please let this happen.. this would be awesome...

+1

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

What's so wrong about giving up a second round pick for a serviceable backup for Wall like Beno...so JW doesn't completely get worn out by April. It's clear that Temple and Maynor aren't getting it done as backups.

Yes, the signing of Maynor was a mistake...a BIG one as it turns out. But do you now stand pat or do you lick your wounds and move on?

How many times do we have to make the same mistake before you starting thinking about moves like this in a different way, Zards?

The Spurs are in a position to challenge for a title, but they won't be for long. And they are battling injuries to key older players. It makes perfect sense for them to be interested in Udrih. Their time-frame is NOW -- and a very short now at that.

We need every single future-oriented asset we can muster. We need that Round 2 pick, because it helps a little bit to build the future. It is ridiculous to give that away for a mediocre, expiring 31-year old PG who'll give us 15 minutes a game for 30 games and then maybe 12 minutes a game during the 5-6 games it takes us to get bounced out of the playoffs -- and then be gone (probably to the Spurs for next year, costing them only his salary -- no future pick: they have a good GM unlike the Wizards).

PIF, it's not about how I'm thinking as much as it's about how the Zards players, coaches, owner, front office and, I would argue, an overwhelming majority of Zards fans are thinking. Like it or not, the Zards are all in for making the playoffs this year and, hopefully, advancing beyond the first round. That might be short term thinking, but it's the reality on the ground.

While it might be fun to dream up scenarios that include clinging on to a second round pick with the hope of drafting a player who'll contribute in the future or picking up an inexperienced, unproven NBDL player like Pierre Jackson or Tre Kelley, that's not currently in the cards. It's obvious that the Zards want a backup PG that they believe has the experience and smarts to help them secure a third seed and advance in the playoffs...not a whole lot unlike the reason you say the Spurs might be pursuing Beno. The Zards may not be playing for a championship but they are trying to win games (including playoff games) sooner rather than later.

Again, like it or not, short-term thinking is driving the Zards current strategy.

I don't just dream up fun scenarios.

Before DraftExpress came up to speed with great scouting videoes, I tried to explain to their scouts why Paul Millsap would be better than Alexander Johnson.

DCZ, I don't want to give my haters grief. Let me say 18 months before each of Millsap and Faried, I was saying lottery worthy players, both.

There are Ed Wielands, Nivek with his spreadsheets, Dat with his tiers, doclinkin with a bunch of research and even metaphysical analysis of players. Before divorce, single parenting, and my decision to learn the Bible cover-cover, personalities, parables, historically, contextually, exegesis, etc. I knew a bit more about prospects.

How much more? AAU, HS, grades, what coaches said, winners, whiners, etc.

I think I could really be a good scout. Better behind the scenes. Dr. Buss didn't create genius. We each have it.

What I see for Washington humbles me. Mel Brooks said in History of the World, "It's good to be the king." EG and Ted are the shot callers. RealGM is a nice venue to muse in. But I KNOW how many times they rrjected me and essentially most in this thread have dismissed me.

I don't have it going on like an ESPN Insider. My blog STILL isn't up. PayPal on my website? Now that would make me seem delusional.

EG is screwing up large when he squanders round two picks. Udrih for a draft pick will be Ernie gifting another franchise, apparently with Ted's blessing.


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[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Isn't this our biggest fear as Wizard fans, a Grunfeld trade?

closg-

I'm just waiting to be grunfelded, meaning he is gonna do something that takes away any chance at getting KD in 2 years!

Charlie Brown gets grunfelded every time when he runs up to kick that football. No chance EG lets what you hope for to happen. Unless it's a number 1 or 3 overall pick, on draft night ALWAYS prepare for your being grunfelded.

Will they draft Kawhi Leonard? ...... No! Vesely

How about they draft Faried? ....
Heck no. You get double grunfelded. Choice is Chris Singleton.


I mean there were literally only two lottery-projectec picks that I really had problems with: Vesely and Singleton.

Closg, life has grunfelded myself and everybody else from time to time. I feel like 11 or 12 years of EG is plenty. I have been a Bullets/Wizards fan since 1973.

I hope Leonsis sees beyond Indus figures. Improve attendance comes with wins and with playoff series success.

Hiwever, one definition of insanity is to do the same thing over and over but to expect different results.

Trading Ariza doesn't mean missing playoffs per se. But keeping him means why isn't Porter in D-League? Likewise, Tre Kelley or others gambit named might be better than Udrih.

Historical reference: The day EG made a mistake trading rights to Steph Curry (my 5 pick) for one season of Mike Miller and Randy Foye, I was incensed. Curry was so very much better than Foye, I could not believe that deal!!!! Talk about being grunfelded .....

But EG did a very similar thing trading a first for Gortat. Geez, mighta just traded away Doug McDermott. ...only to see Gortat bolt just like Miller and Foye did! It is insane the way EG makes these moves and is a tenured GM.


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[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I think there are two paradigms in which to evaluate trades with our current FO.

Paradigm One (PO) - Reality: Ted has made making the playoffs goal #1. Basically, you want your job, make the playoffs. So EG/Witt are on the hook for that short-term goal.

Paradigm Two (PT) - Long Term Success/Vision: Ted would like long-term success but not at the expense of his short-term goal.

So, Udrih for a 2nd round pick in PO - no brainer. Udrih for a 2nd round pick in PT - no way.

You can look at the Gortat trade the same way. No brainer in PO, no way in PT.

I love this post. I lean PT, heavily.

Lowry and the Raptors beating all star weekend celebs Beal and Wall makes me also think realistically. Talent that is wisely applied wins. Wisdom I think says Lowry is flat better than Wall right now. Observation IMO says perceived improvement by Wall is very difficult to quantify. I don't like some ego moves and hero ball. Beal's PER and On/Off suggest to me Webster at SG or Ariza at SG are better than Beal.

I realistically think max contract Wall could get frustrated next year. Perhaps most think the Slam Dunk Champ has arrived. Barkley has Beal a future all star. I don't know.

As a 40-year Wizard fan, if trading Wall gave the Wizards multiple first round picks; I still feel the same way as when Kyrie Irving was at Duke. I said I would trade Wall for Irving's rights plus a conditional pick.

How good are Tyler Ennis and Marcus Smart? Would I give up max deal Wall for Ennis/Smart, plus McDermott, plus a future first?

Dckingsfan, I am paradigm two plus plus. The future is easy for somme owners and GMs to change quickly. They shift their paradigms due to being visionaries who are intelligent and flexible. EG is fixed, inflexible, and PO.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Austin Rivers would fit right in with recent draft busts Seraphin, Vesely & Singleton. In fact he might be the worst out of those four. If you make that trade, you make it solely for Pierre Jackson, Rivers is just dead weight salary at this point. I'd rather play Garrett Temple than Rivers. At least Temple defends.

Yeah, do this for Pierre Jackson.

I wish another coach had a turn coaching Serapin and Vesely. What would Popovich do? Austin has a great dad. I think he could perhaps be like Reddick-- MAYBE in time.

Regardless, if Maynor goes out and the Wizards have low to no expectations then perhaps Rivers surprises.

I like Seth Curry more than Austin Rivers.

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[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I like Fredette. If we're going to take the time to bring another guy in then he can't just be there to "run offense", he's got to have the ability to help build on a lead or get back in the game. You want that pesky scoring PG in the likes of Nate Rob and Will Bynum. I think Fredette would help us a lot.

Agreed.

DF, I also think Jimmer could help a lot.

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[Dat2U]

Again, like it or not, short-term thinking is driving the Zards current strategy.

A strategy that's been catalyst in many of the Wizards/Bullets franchise crippling decisions.

Were doomed to repeat history if we don't learn from the past.

But I guess this is when you would remind me to stop living in the past.

[Dat2U]

I think there are two paradigms in which to evaluate trades with our current FO.

Paradigm One (PO) - Reality: Ted has made making the playoffs goal #1. Basically, you want your job, make the playoffs. So EG/Witt are on the hook for that short-term goal.

Paradigm Two (PT) - Long Term Success/Vision: Ted would like long-term success but not at the expense of his short-term goal.

So, Udrih for a 2nd round pick in PO - no brainer. Udrih for a 2nd round pick in PT - no way.

You can look at the Gortat trade the same way. No brainer in PO, no way in PT.

I love this post. I lean PT, heavily.

Lowry and the Raptors beating all star weekend celebs Beal and Wall makes me also think realistically. Talent that is wisely applied wins. Wisdom I think says Lowry is flat better than Wall right now. Observation IMO says perceived improvement by Wall is very difficult to quantify. I don't like some ego moves and hero ball. Beal's PER and On/Off suggest to me Webster at SG or Ariza at SG are better than Beal.

I realistically think max contract Wall could get frustrated next year. Perhaps most think the Slam Dunk Champ has arrived. Barkley has Beal a future all star. I don't know.

As a 40-year Wizard fan, if trading Wall gave the Wizards multiple first round picks; I still feel the same way as when Kyrie Irving was at Duke. I said I would trade Wall for Irving's rights plus a conditional pick.

How good are Tyler Ennis and Marcus Smart? Would I give up max deal Wall for Ennis/Smart, plus McDermott, plus a future first?

Dckingsfan, I am paradigm two plus plus. The future is easy for somme owners and GMs to change quickly. They shift their paradigms due to being visionaries who are intelligent and flexible. EG is fixed, inflexible, and PO.

Beal will be better next year. He's still very young and I figured he wouldn't be quite ready for prime time like many posters suggested after a strong camp & preseason. I'm a little disappointed in how consistent he's been. Consistently bad. Too many stinkers for my liking right now. I think he gets down on himself too easily, which isn't a great mix with Wall in that he's much the same way. Confidence is an issue, seemingly always an issue.

That's why the all-star experience was really good for Wall. His performance on that stage should give him the confidence to have a real strong 2nd half and begin to meet expectations of a REAL breakout this season.

[LyricalRico]

That's why the all-star experience was really good for Wall. His performance on that stage should give him the confidence to have a real strong 2nd half and begin to meet expectations of a REAL breakout this season.

If one weekend of stuff that doesn't actually count will help Wall that much, how much more so will actually making the playoffs! Call it short-term thinking all you want, but playoffs this year can still have long-term benefits for this team IMO.

[Rafael122]

1.5 games from the 8th spot, and only 4 games separate us from making the playoffs to having the 9th pick overall in the draft. We're 3 games under .500 with Trevor Ariza and Gortat, if they are traded, could we be any worse?

[hands11]

Whatever happens, there will be gnashing of teeth, slitting of wrists and many a grown men in their bath tubs curled up in the fetal position.

Not again.

Well at least this is a more then average chance this is the last time.

Not me. The night he passed up Leonard and Faried I was not surprised. I have grown to expect the worst. Oka-Riza turned out not as bad. Nene was damaged goods, essentially beaten out by Faried; yet, I like Nene's ability and his character, and that he's a man of faith as well as a cancer survivor. Even with his lift gone he is dressing for games. He is training hard.

I've learned that once a decision is made, I tend to see the best of the bad situation.

Maynor is mostly bad because Wittman is too slow to forgive and too unimaginative to play Maynor with the starters. Sit Beal and Wall but play Maynor, Webster, Ariza, Nene, Gortat early just a couple times. Result would be no more slumping Maynor.

Maynor is sucking epically, but he's not playing for a great coaching mind.

No matter what the heck EG does, I think the Wizards best option is to maximize the talent with great coaching.

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We tend to like a lot of the same player early, bitch and complain about not getting them and then turn to making lemonade when given Lemons.

But at this point, it hard to see the glass half full when Randys game coaching is as bad as he it.

He says the right things a lot of the time, but he doesn't do anything when it matter. He said recently, losing the right way is exceptable as long as the team is playing the right way and making progress. Well that is true of coaching as well. You have to make adjustments to match how the other team is beating you. If that means you put Kevin S in or Ves is over Gortat or Nene or that you stop running a play for Beal that isn't working or that you have to sit Wall when it is playing terrible, you do it. You coach the right way and if you lose you live with it.

And last night, TOR never let more then a 6 point decline happen without calling a TO. Randy doesn't do that.

The worst is watching him do nothing hoping that by some magic what wasn't working will all the sudden start working. Or watching the player or line up inserted to late because he was forced to do it by fouls or injury.

He is a good assistant. He was probably even a good coach for a blown up team rebuilding that wasn't going to win many games anyway. There his game time poor coaching was hidden by low exceptions and underdeveloped talent. But at this point, he has enough talent to be winning more games then this. Heck, if I was to go back and count he might have cost them 8-10 games by now.

[hands11]

Trade players who have no idea how to make good or players the coaching staff will never be on board with.


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I would fire the coach that won't be here before I would do that. Now there are your Maynors that you know you need to trade, but I wouldn't take who Randy plays as much of a factor. He doesn't even play Otto.

[hands11]

I think the main thing is that Beno is really not that good. He's getting spotty playing time in NY for a reason, I think there are better options open than him. Like clearing a spot and bringing in Rodrigue Beaubois, using that pick and cash to get pierre jackson, Going after Vasquez, Or call up Myck Kabongo, Maalik Wayns or Dee Bost. Not only are they all younger and probably as good or better than Beno at this point. but they are all better for the future of the team as well.

They could really use a Rodrigue Beaubois type with a lot of energy. Interesting would be to get him and Pierre Jackson. Man, the 2nd unit would be lightening fast. You could then run Ves with them. Pierre is good at setting up the opp.

I have suggested getting Beno given the options I saw in part because he can shoot pretty well and he is cheap. Plus he has some experience. Miller is old and players like Pierre have no NBA experience.

I hope they get it right. But even getting it not 100% will be an improvement. The team needs another ball handler and another SG. I think they can get by with Ves and Kevin in the post as help if Randy would actually use them.

What sucks is Randy has this team playing like it has 8 active players. Its like they never drafted Otto. He blow it not getting him more minutes since he was activated. Look how Bennett is playing better. CLE suffered though him bad play and now its paying off. And he has been yanking Veselys chain since last year. And he still doesn't use Kevin right enough of the time. And he blow using Glen Rice as well.

And now its probably to late to turn to many of those players because he never integrated them into what the team does. Randy coached to tight and now we are were we are. Between a rock and a hard place.

[hands11]

By now the Wiz should have a very good feel for whether or not Ariza wants to resign with them (I get the vibe he doesn't but that's just speculation on my part). I assume they are in communication with his agent on the matter. If they haven't received a positive response and have a high level of confidence that he will resign then he needs to be moved now, even if it diminishes our success in the playoffs.

That's the piece of information we don't have.

I'm sure they have floated contract expansion ideas at him. What we don't know is are they are the same ball part and how much does he want to stay. He does fit well here but I think he know what kind of situation he needs to be in to be successful now. He knows his limits and strengths better. I think he would only go where he knows he would fit in. The young man go for the gold, try to be more then you are days are behind him.

He is good at what he does and bad at what he doesn't. In the right situation, he can help a team win a title. He already proved that. But he isn't going to be your P George. He already proved that as well.

For the vast majority of NBA players, it does matter where they land. Only a handful can be great on any team because they are the core. Players like KD, LeBron, some PGs. some rebounding players.

System and teammates matter a lot for a TA type player.

He has been mostly worth his contact. But a player like that is a 6/7M player, not a 8/9M player. Mostly because he can't dribble to set up a shot or drive. He is purely a catch and shoot.