John Wall Appreciation Thread - Part III

[Dark Faze]

I've always liked PER. I think it throws out a number and gives you a general idea of how well someone is playing--and usually that number absolutely fits. The fact that Wall has never been a greater than 23 PER guy hints at his inefficiency. For Porter, being in the high 18's despite low numbers, hints at good efficiency but a lack of overall production. Cousins is 25, 13, and 1.6--only a 22.66 PER--which hints at there being something off in his game.

[tontoz]

I have heard from more than one stat geek that PER over values inefficient scoring. I forget the actual % cuttoff but apparently you can raise your PER by shooting more even if you shoot an extremely low percentage.

[payitforward]

I've always liked PER. I think it throws out a number and gives you a general idea of how well someone is playing--and usually that number absolutely fits. The fact that Wall has never been a greater than 23 PER guy hints at his inefficiency. For Porter, being in the high 18's despite low numbers, hints at good efficiency but a lack of overall production. Cousins is 25, 13, and 1.6--only a 22.66 PER--which hints at there being something off in his game.

Yes, it throws out a number. No, on the rest of what you write.

Wall's 23 rewards his "inefficiency" rather than hinting at it.
Porter's "high 18's" hides his "overall production" (which apparently you can't see, even though it jumps out at you from the numbers).
As to Cousins' game, it's obvious what's wrong with it: he turns the ball over more than 2.5 times as often as an average big. If anything PER overrates him for his volume shooting.

[payitforward]

I have heard from more than one stat geek that PER over values inefficient scoring. I forget the actual % cuttoff but apparently you can raise your PER by shooting more even if you shoot an extremely low percentage.

http://www.chicagonow.com/bullsville/2013/09/the-bulls-per-and-the-idiots-who-live-by-it/

"Hollinger argues that each two point field goal made is worth about 1.65 points. A three point field goal made is worth 2.65 points. A missed field goal, though, costs a team 0.72 points. Given these values, with a bit of math we can show that a player will break even on his two point field goal attempts if he hits on 30.4% of these shots. On three pointers the break-even point is 21.4%. If a player exceeds these thresholds, and virtually every NBA player does so with respect to two-point shots, the more he shoots the higher his value in PERs. So a player can be an inefficient scorer and simply inflate his value by taking a large number of shots."

Duh.

[Dark Faze]

I have heard from more than one stat geek that PER over values inefficient scoring. I forget the actual % cuttoff but apparently you can raise your PER by shooting more even if you shoot an extremely low percentage.

http://www.chicagonow.com/bullsville/2013/09/the-bulls-per-and-the-idiots-who-live-by-it/

"Hollinger argues that each two point field goal made is worth about 1.65 points. A three point field goal made is worth 2.65 points. A missed field goal, though, costs a team 0.72 points. Given these values, with a bit of math we can show that a player will break even on his two point field goal attempts if he hits on 30.4% of these shots. On three pointers the break-even point is 21.4%. If a player exceeds these thresholds, and virtually every NBA player does so with respect to two-point shots, the more he shoots the higher his value in PERs. So a player can be an inefficient scorer and simply inflate his value by taking a large number of shots."

Duh.

And if that's the only meaningful contribution he has on a game, he'll be in China long before his PER can rise to a decent level. The implication of your quote is that a guy can chuck his way to elite PER while shooting 30%FG. It's not going to happen.

[payitforward]

I have heard from more than one stat geek that PER over values inefficient scoring. I forget the actual % cuttoff but apparently you can raise your PER by shooting more even if you shoot an extremely low percentage.

http://www.chicagonow.com/bullsville/2013/09/the-bulls-per-and-the-idiots-who-live-by-it/

"Hollinger argues that each two point field goal made is worth about 1.65 points. A three point field goal made is worth 2.65 points. A missed field goal, though, costs a team 0.72 points. Given these values, with a bit of math we can show that a player will break even on his two point field goal attempts if he hits on 30.4% of these shots. On three pointers the break-even point is 21.4%. If a player exceeds these thresholds, and virtually every NBA player does so with respect to two-point shots, the more he shoots the higher his value in PERs. So a player can be an inefficient scorer and simply inflate his value by taking a large number of shots."

Duh.

And if that's the only meaningful contribution he has on a game, he'll be in China long before his PER can rise to a decent level. The implication of your quote is that a guy can chuck his way to elite PER while shooting 30%FG. It's not going to happen.

Dude, can you read? It's a fact about PER that if a player shoots higher than 30.4% on his 2-point attempts in a game, his PER goes up. No matter who he is, no matter what his PER was before the game. The more of those 2-point attempts he takes the more his PER goes up.

That doesn't mean he can shoot his way to an elite PER, it means that PER is not an accurate measure of effective play. To put it another way, this is a fact about PER not about players.

Nor is this a subject on which you get to have your opinion & someone else may have a different opinion, & a 3d guy a 3d opinion. It's mathematics. In fact it's simple arithmetic.

[Ruzious]

That's why I like PER noted with TS% and/or efg.

[FAH1223]

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[tontoz]

Wall's warts were on full display in game 5.

Too much dribbling
Out of control drives
Careless turnovers
Poor and frequent shooting

He makes a lot of positive plays but he is making the same mistakes now that he did 5 years ago.

[DCZards]

Wall's warts were on full display in game 5.

Too much dribbling
Out of control drives
Careless turnovers
Poor and frequent shooting

He makes a lot of positive plays but he is making the same mistakes now that he did 5 years ago.

Actually, I thought John shot the ball pretty well. 10 for 21 and he was sticking the short jumper. I also don't have a problem with his drives. Yes, sometimes he's out of control but I want him attacking the basket looking to score or find an open teammate. That's the meat-and-potatoes of his game.

I definitely agree with you on the too much dribbling and the turnovers. The two turnovers late in the game that led to easy Raptor hoops were killers.

[queridiculo]

Actually, I thought John shot the ball pretty well. 10 for 21 and he was sticking the short jumper. I also don't have a problem with his drives. Yes, sometimes he's out of control but I want him attacking the basket looking to score or find an open teammate. That's the meat-and-potatoes of his game.

I definitely agree with you on the too much dribbling and the turnovers. The two turnovers late in the game that led to easy Raptor hoops were killers.

There's nothing wrong with attacking the basket, but there's also nothing wrong with keeping the dribble alive when you feel you're going to get challenged and backing out to reset.

Jumping up in the air and passing the ball to nobody in particular is something he needs to remove from his game, the negative assists do make a difference in a close game.

[80sballboy]

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[80sballboy]

No surprise about the comments probably centered around Gortat but guessing he doesn't love Mahinmi either when talking about athletic bigs.

[80sballboy]

More on Wall's leadership. Positive comments from The Truth.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/dc-sports-bog/wp/2018/05/01/a-leader-should-say-that-paul-pierce-loved-john-walls-comments-about-wizards-teammates/?utm_term=.3f5df2ec040d

[CobraCommander]

More on Wall's leadership. Positive comments from The Truth.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/dc-sports-bog/wp/2018/05/01/a-leader-should-say-that-paul-pierce-loved-john-walls-comments-about-wizards-teammates/?utm_term=.3f5df2ec040d

Hell if the GM isnt going to say it...the coach isnt gonna say it....someone gotta say it. Pop called out LA last year...LA came back at him...and this year LA was much better than the year before and happier in the system. Right now the wiz are in a free fall...at the beginning of the year they didnt know the wizards would only have 88 games for the whole year...and that starts with the Coach and GM...glad john said it.

[DCZards]

'Everybody Eats' is not the key to getting the Wizards to the next level, John Wall is

(These are excerpts. Go here to read the full article: https://www.bulletsforever.com/2018/5/12/17333992/john-wall-washington-wizards-everybody-eats)

Wall is the only All-NBA level talent on this roster. There are players who have elite traits but Wall’s ability to draw the focus of a defense creates scoring opportunities that the rest of the roster simply can’t, no matter how well they move the ball.

Of course, there are still ways Wall can get better. While he should continue to be aggressive looking for his own offense, he can refine his shot selection. He also played too slow at times this year. For a player as fast as he is, there’s no reason he should be near the bottom of the list of starting point guards in average speed. When he walks the ball or stands still off the ball the Wizards become much easier to defend.

John Wall has his flaws, and he may not ever be the best player on a championship team, but neither he or his contract should be the focus of what’s wrong with the Wizards. The team has put him in a position where he has to initiate the offense, initiate the defense, be a team leader, and the unofficial team spokesman as the front office hides in the shadows. It’s not much different from what LeBron James is asked to do every day for the Cavaliers.

The organization needs to do a better job of putting him in a position where he can succeed and in turn they need him to return to the level of play he set for himself in his All-NBA season and ideally improve on his weaknesses. They need that John Wall if they have any aspirations of contention in the Eastern Conference. Don’t let Linsanity…I mean “Everybody Eats” make you forget that.

[nate33]

'Everybody Eats' is not the key to getting the Wizards to the next level, John Wall is

(These are excerpts. Go here to read the full article: https://www.bulletsforever.com/2018/5/12/17333992/john-wall-washington-wizards-everybody-eats)

Wall is the only All-NBA level talent on this roster. There are players who have elite traits but Wall’s ability to draw the focus of a defense creates scoring opportunities that the rest of the roster simply can’t, no matter how well they move the ball.

Of course, there are still ways Wall can get better. While he should continue to be aggressive looking for his own offense, he can refine his shot selection. He also played too slow at times this year. For a player as fast as he is, there’s no reason he should be near the bottom of the list of starting point guards in average speed. When he walks the ball or stands still off the ball the Wizards become much easier to defend.

John Wall has his flaws, and he may not ever be the best player on a championship team, but neither he or his contract should be the focus of what’s wrong with the Wizards. The team has put him in a position where he has to initiate the offense, initiate the defense, be a team leader, and the unofficial team spokesman as the front office hides in the shadows. It’s not much different from what LeBron James is asked to do every day for the Cavaliers.

The organization needs to do a better job of putting him in a position where he can succeed and in turn they need him to return to the level of play he set for himself in his All-NBA season and ideally improve on his weaknesses. They need that John Wall if they have any aspirations of contention in the Eastern Conference. Don’t let Linsanity…I mean “Everybody Eats” make you forget that.

Who is the All-NBA talent on the Boston Celtics? Their "everybody eats" system has them up 1-0 in the Conference Finals.

[CobraCommander]

'Everybody Eats' is not the key to getting the Wizards to the next level, John Wall is

(These are excerpts. Go here to read the full article: https://www.bulletsforever.com/2018/5/12/17333992/john-wall-washington-wizards-everybody-eats)

Wall is the only All-NBA level talent on this roster. There are players who have elite traits but Wall’s ability to draw the focus of a defense creates scoring opportunities that the rest of the roster simply can’t, no matter how well they move the ball.

Of course, there are still ways Wall can get better. While he should continue to be aggressive looking for his own offense, he can refine his shot selection. He also played too slow at times this year. For a player as fast as he is, there’s no reason he should be near the bottom of the list of starting point guards in average speed. When he walks the ball or stands still off the ball the Wizards become much easier to defend.

John Wall has his flaws, and he may not ever be the best player on a championship team, but neither he or his contract should be the focus of what’s wrong with the Wizards. The team has put him in a position where he has to initiate the offense, initiate the defense, be a team leader, and the unofficial team spokesman as the front office hides in the shadows. It’s not much different from what LeBron James is asked to do every day for the Cavaliers.

The organization needs to do a better job of putting him in a position where he can succeed and in turn they need him to return to the level of play he set for himself in his All-NBA season and ideally improve on his weaknesses. They need that John Wall if they have any aspirations of contention in the Eastern Conference. Don’t let Linsanity…I mean “Everybody Eats” make you forget that.

Who is the All-NBA talent on the Boston Celtics? Their "everybody eats" system has them up 1-0 in the Conference Finals.

Brad is....a great coach appears to be more valuable than most players....who knew?

[Wizardspride]

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[payitforward]

Whose image is on his shirt? Anybody know?