Political Roundtable - Part VII

[dckingsfan]

Wow, now the Russians are actively going after the folks we supported in Syria - almost comical if it weren't so sad.

This reminds me of the end of the Carter administration...

[nate33]

Wow, now the Russians are actively going after the folks we supported in Syria - almost comical if it weren't so sad.

This reminds me of the end of the Carter administration...

While I agree that the way this has gone down has made the U.S. look very weak, but in the big picture, I'm actually happy with the turn of events. Assad is obviously a pretty bad guy, but I think we learned in Iraq that it takes a pretty bad guy to keep radical Muslims under control. If we could rewind the clock of history, we almost surely would have been better off if Saddam Hussein was left in power.

Projecting our ideals of a proper democratic government onto a people that do not share the same culture and history is counter-productive. Let Muslim countries figure out how to govern themselves. They don't need or want our help.

[Zonkerbl]

I'll be really curious to see if and how the Constitution applies to Artificial Intelligences.

Constitution only applies to U.S. citizens.

What will really be curious is will we have time to apply the Constitution to AI before Skynet decides we're a virus and wipes us all out.

[dckingsfan]

Wow, now the Russians are actively going after the folks we supported in Syria - almost comical if it weren't so sad.

This reminds me of the end of the Carter administration...

While I agree that the way this has gone down has made the U.S. look very weak, but in the big picture, I'm actually happy with the turn of events. Assad is obviously a pretty bad guy, but I think we learned in Iraq that it takes a pretty bad guy to keep radical Muslims under control. If we could rewind the clock of history, we almost surely would have been better off if Saddam Hussein was left in power.

Projecting our ideals of a proper democratic government onto a people that do not share the same culture and history is counter-productive. Let Muslim countries figure out how to govern themselves. They don't need or want our help.

Yes, Obama Administration look like pansies right now.

[doclinkin]

I'll be really curious to see if and how the Constitution applies to Artificial Intelligences.

Constitution only applies to U.S. citizens.

What will really be curious is will we have time to apply the Constitution to AI before Skynet decides we're a virus and wipes us all out.

Interpretations of the 14th amendment suggest corporations are citizens entitled to protection under the law. (And okay slaves as well, you know incidentally, who suddenly were granted citizenship where before they didn't qualify as persons under the law).

"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."

An AI created in the US who could demonstrate sapience and sentience (and any definition of personhood that is broad enough to include corporations) might sue for Citizenship, arguing that it is either subject to our jurisdiction and must obey our laws, or it is not and can there for treat us as hostile and worthy of takeover of all systems. Pretty sure it can pass any citizenship test we ask it to take.

Just thinkin.

[Zonkerbl]

I think we need to quickly pass legislation that no AI can be created without incorporating Asimov's three laws of robotics.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Wow, now the Russians are actively going after the folks we supported in Syria - almost comical if it weren't so sad.

This reminds me of the end of the Carter administration...

While I agree that the way this has gone down has made the U.S. look very weak, but in the big picture, I'm actually happy with the turn of events. Assad is obviously a pretty bad guy, but I think we learned in Iraq that it takes a pretty bad guy to keep radical Muslims under control. If we could rewind the clock of history, we almost surely would have been better off if Saddam Hussein was left in power.

Projecting our ideals of a proper democratic government onto a people that do not share the same culture and history is counter-productive. Let Muslim countries figure out how to govern themselves. They don't need or want our help.

Yes, Obama Administration look like pansies right now.

After the fourth blood moon, and also after Putin met with Obama, the Russians invaded Syria.

My two thoughts were this reminds me of the Iraq invasion starting back in 2003; and, seems innocuous right now but could kick off WW3.

I don't know much about politics. But I have spent a year away from family in foreign soul while in the military. (Korea and other time in Guam). Spent many years on various US military installations. I have had my former spouse spend two separate years in Iraq. Mortar attacks on her end. Being around a lot of dudes not me. I had to work and single parent three boys, one with special needs, alone. I qualify as a disabled veteran. I know so much about what could and does go wrong with deployments.

Do any of you guys know of any KIA families? Can you picture faces that didn't come back? You know any paralyzed or amputee Wounded Warriors? Know anybody with PTSD? Ever shop with food stamps and serve your country at the same time? You don't know Joe D, most likely. The ultimate is the fights that have broken out at returns from deployment. Empty bank account, vanished spouse, preemptive divorcing...all par for the course.

The talk of Obama being weak comes from people who haven't faced death or major sacrifice in service to their country as a service member IMO. People SAY they support the military but I think they do so from afar. I sure didn't see anybody when I was in the service. They didn't hold pep rallies. They're not handing out candy to my Vietnam era disabled vets. They don't have much in common IMO with people I know.

Sending troops to Syria? Fine. Draft everyone and make everyone have their kids go fight. Drone the crap out of Syria. Develop that nuke the Reagan era talked about. Kills all the people inside buildings but leaves structure intact. Really put the hammer down. Heck just take out Putin... That's strong rhetoric!

Then watch the movie, Team America, World Police. Watch John Wayne movies. Read about manifest destiny.... Lay the smack down!

Obama weak? Osama is deader than Fred. So are his cronies. We're still in Afghanistan and some IIRC are back in Iraq.

I know wars are inevitable but I believe EVERY ONE needs mandatory military service. Then talk about war.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

To clarify: I pray for our President and our leadership. My dad is buried at Arlington. I served honorably and hope to be buried at Punchbowl as a veteran. I love what the Air Force did for me. My dad went to Vietnam twice. My sons' mother went to Iraq twice. I love my country and when all is said and done right or wrong, God Bless America. If it's us or them, I'm down for whatever. F them. I think it's noble and just common sense to protect our way of life.

That said, remember lessons learned. Ron Paul had been to Vietnam and he warned against invading Iraq. I'm not sure about Syria. Fools rush in.

Remember, united WE stand. Barack Obama is The POTUS. Our President! Mine and yours. Show civility and defer to him as you would either Bush or Carter or Clinton. Respect Barack Obama's authority and don't call him weak unless you're really unbiased and prepared with other brighter ideas.

[Induveca]

Russia is certainly expanding their military might. They're actively bombing ISIS/Syrian rebels, and have tanks ready to presumably push into rebel and ISIS controlled areas.

For now, I say more power to them. I'm fine with the US being taken down a notch in terms of being the "world's police". Very happy someone has boots on the ground *finally* ready to attack ISIS....never expected it to be Russia.

Russian media/people will certainly accept civilian and military casualties as a mere result of war. The US of course will bash Russia with propaganda regarding their "brutal tactics".

It will certainly be interesting to see how this plays out. The US essentially just got kicked out of Syria and Iraq with a single Russian deployment. I'm fine with it, as long as ISIS gets taken out.

[nate33]

While I agree that the way this has gone down has made the U.S. look very weak, but in the big picture, I'm actually happy with the turn of events. Assad is obviously a pretty bad guy, but I think we learned in Iraq that it takes a pretty bad guy to keep radical Muslims under control. If we could rewind the clock of history, we almost surely would have been better off if Saddam Hussein was left in power.

Projecting our ideals of a proper democratic government onto a people that do not share the same culture and history is counter-productive. Let Muslim countries figure out how to govern themselves. They don't need or want our help.

Yes, Obama Administration look like pansies right now.

After the fourth blood moon, and also after Putin met with Obama, the Russians invaded Syria.

My two thoughts were this reminds me of the Iraq invasion starting back in 2003; and, seems innocuous right now but could kick off WW3.

I don't know much about politics. But I have spent a year away from family in foreign soul while in the military. (Korea). I have had my former spouse spend two separate years in Iraq. Mortar attacks on her end. Being around a lot of dudes not me. I had to work and single parent three boys, one with special needs, alone. I qualify as a disabled veteran. I know so much about what could and does go wrong with deployments.

Do any of you guys know of any KIA families? Can you picture faces that didn't come back? You know any paralyzed or amputee Wounded Warriors? Know anybody with PTSD? Ever shop with food stamps and serve your country at the same time? You don't know Joe D, most likely. The ultimate is the fights that have broken out at returns from deployment. Empty bank account, vanished spouse, preemptive divorcing...all par for the course.

The talk of Obama being weak comes from people who haven't faced death IMO. People say the support the military but I think they do so from afar.

Sending troops to Syria? Fine. Draft everyone and make everyone have their kids go fight. Drone the crap out of Syria. Develop that nuke the Reagan era talked about. Really put the hammer down. Heck just take out Putin.

Then watch the movie, Team America, World Police. Watch John Wayne movies. Read about manifest destiny. Lay the smack down!

Obama weak? Osama is deader than Fred. So are his cronies. We're still in Afghanistan and some IIRC are back in Iraq.

I know wars are inevitable but I believe EVERY ONE needs mandatory military service. Then talk about war.

CCJ, I can't tell if you're agreeing with me or disagreeing. I think we both want the same thing: to keep our people out of danger in a war that we don't need to be fighting. As I said, I think Russia taking the lead is a positive outcome. My comment about Obama looking weak was meant in a political context. It's not weak that we didn't go into Syria ourselves. It was weak the way Putin just disregarded Obama and did what he wanted to do. A stronger stance would have been to purposefully align ourselves with Russia.

[dckingsfan]

Yes, Obama Administration look like pansies right now.

After the fourth blood moon, and also after Putin met with Obama, the Russians invaded Syria.

My two thoughts were this reminds me of the Iraq invasion starting back in 2003; and, seems innocuous right now but could kick off WW3.

I don't know much about politics. But I have spent a year away from family in foreign soul while in the military. (Korea). I have had my former spouse spend two separate years in Iraq. Mortar attacks on her end. Being around a lot of dudes not me. I had to work and single parent three boys, one with special needs, alone. I qualify as a disabled veteran. I know so much about what could and does go wrong with deployments.

Do any of you guys know of any KIA families? Can you picture faces that didn't come back? You know any paralyzed or amputee Wounded Warriors? Know anybody with PTSD? Ever shop with food stamps and serve your country at the same time? You don't know Joe D, most likely. The ultimate is the fights that have broken out at returns from deployment. Empty bank account, vanished spouse, preemptive divorcing...all par for the course.

The talk of Obama being weak comes from people who haven't faced death IMO. People say the support the military but I think they do so from afar.

Sending troops to Syria? Fine. Draft everyone and make everyone have their kids go fight. Drone the crap out of Syria. Develop that nuke the Reagan era talked about. Really put the hammer down. Heck just take out Putin.

Then watch the movie, Team America, World Police. Watch John Wayne movies. Read about manifest destiny. Lay the smack down!

Obama weak? Osama is deader than Fred. So are his cronies. We're still in Afghanistan and some IIRC are back in Iraq.

I know wars are inevitable but I believe EVERY ONE needs mandatory military service. Then talk about war.

CCJ, I can't tell if you're agreeing with me or disagreeing. I think we both want the same thing: to keep our people out of danger in a war that we don't need to be fighting. As I said, I think Russia taking the lead is a positive outcome. My comment about Obama looking weak was meant in a political context. It's not weak that we didn't go into Syria ourselves. It was weak the way Putin just disregarded Obama and did what he wanted to do. A stronger stance would have been to purposefully align ourselves with Russia.

And if you are talking to me - yes, lot's of family in the military both now and back several generations (starting with a KIA in the Civil War). I think the best way not to get into engagements abroad is if you don't appear weak. And Obama appears very weak on a world stage. Even our allies don't believe in him...

[bsilver]

After the fourth blood moon, and also after Putin met with Obama, the Russians invaded Syria.

My two thoughts were this reminds me of the Iraq invasion starting back in 2003; and, seems innocuous right now but could kick off WW3.

I don't know much about politics. But I have spent a year away from family in foreign soul while in the military. (Korea). I have had my former spouse spend two separate years in Iraq. Mortar attacks on her end. Being around a lot of dudes not me. I had to work and single parent three boys, one with special needs, alone. I qualify as a disabled veteran. I know so much about what could and does go wrong with deployments.

Do any of you guys know of any KIA families? Can you picture faces that didn't come back? You know any paralyzed or amputee Wounded Warriors? Know anybody with PTSD? Ever shop with food stamps and serve your country at the same time? You don't know Joe D, most likely. The ultimate is the fights that have broken out at returns from deployment. Empty bank account, vanished spouse, preemptive divorcing...all par for the course.

The talk of Obama being weak comes from people who haven't faced death IMO. People say the support the military but I think they do so from afar.

Sending troops to Syria? Fine. Draft everyone and make everyone have their kids go fight. Drone the crap out of Syria. Develop that nuke the Reagan era talked about. Really put the hammer down. Heck just take out Putin.

Then watch the movie, Team America, World Police. Watch John Wayne movies. Read about manifest destiny. Lay the smack down!

Obama weak? Osama is deader than Fred. So are his cronies. We're still in Afghanistan and some IIRC are back in Iraq.

I know wars are inevitable but I believe EVERY ONE needs mandatory military service. Then talk about war.

CCJ, I can't tell if you're agreeing with me or disagreeing. I think we both want the same thing: to keep our people out of danger in a war that we don't need to be fighting. As I said, I think Russia taking the lead is a positive outcome. My comment about Obama looking weak was meant in a political context. It's not weak that we didn't go into Syria ourselves. It was weak the way Putin just disregarded Obama and did what he wanted to do. A stronger stance would have been to purposefully align ourselves with Russia.

And if you are talking to me - yes, lot's of family in the military both now and back several generations (starting with a KIA in the Civil War). I think the best way not to get into engagements abroad is if you don't appear weak. And Obama appears very weak on a world stage. Even our allies don't believe in him...

We've done the strong approach in Iraq and Afghanistan, and it "worked". The wars were won and democratic governments installed. Unfortunately,
Thousands of US deaths and injuries
Costs of more than a trillion dollars when we have huge deficits
The Iraqi govt is a failure and Afghanistan is questionable. It looks plain now that we have to stay in these places indefinitely, with a big military presence, to maintain these governments.

Obama's policies reflect what should be obvious by now. There is no good solution to these middle eastern conflicts. Intervention has only led to destabilization. Whether weak or strong, bad results ensue. At least none of our troops are getting killed. As far as our allies, countries like Saudi Arabia, are they worth fighting for?

Not saying that weakness is a good foreign policy. Just that there has to be achievable goals, and the middle east isn't the place.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Yes, Obama Administration look like pansies right now.

After the fourth blood moon, and also after Putin met with Obama, the Russians invaded Syria.

My two thoughts were this reminds me of the Iraq invasion starting back in 2003; and, seems innocuous right now but could kick off WW3.

I don't know much about politics. But I have spent a year away from family in foreign soul while in the military. (Korea). I have had my former spouse spend two separate years in Iraq. Mortar attacks on her end. Being around a lot of dudes not me. I had to work and single parent three boys, one with special needs, alone. I qualify as a disabled veteran. I know so much about what could and does go wrong with deployments.

Do any of you guys know of any KIA families? Can you picture faces that didn't come back? You know any paralyzed or amputee Wounded Warriors? Know anybody with PTSD? Ever shop with food stamps and serve your country at the same time? You don't know Joe D, most likely. The ultimate is the fights that have broken out at returns from deployment. Empty bank account, vanished spouse, preemptive divorcing...all par for the course.

The talk of Obama being weak comes from people who haven't faced death IMO. People say the support the military but I think they do so from afar.

Sending troops to Syria? Fine. Draft everyone and make everyone have their kids go fight. Drone the crap out of Syria. Develop that nuke the Reagan era talked about. Really put the hammer down. Heck just take out Putin.

Then watch the movie, Team America, World Police. Watch John Wayne movies. Read about manifest destiny. Lay the smack down!

Obama weak? Osama is deader than Fred. So are his cronies. We're still in Afghanistan and some IIRC are back in Iraq.

I know wars are inevitable but I believe EVERY ONE needs mandatory military service. Then talk about war.

CCJ, I can't tell if you're agreeing with me or disagreeing. I think we both want the same thing: to keep our people out of danger in a war that we don't need to be fighting. As I said, I think Russia taking the lead is a positive outcome. My comment about Obama looking weak was meant in a political context. It's not weak that we didn't go into Syria ourselves. It was weak the way Putin just disregarded Obama and did what he wanted to do. A stronger stance would have been to purposefully align ourselves with Russia.

Exactly.

No, I wasn't singling your comment out. Honestly, I am as attendant as a gnat with ADD in this thread. Too deep. I scanned and saw Weak and Obama... And even thought another poster said it. Wasn't mad at him. Didn't entirely agree. Mostly wanted to say watch closely what's happening in Syria.

Nate, I must be getting more diplomatic.
I'm neither left or right on this.


If we need their oil I say just go take it if that's the agenda. Are we trying to beat someone else before they take it? Honestly, I know conflict over scarce resources and world economics is historically a motivator for war. It's big business.

[bsilver]

I'll be really curious to see if and how the Constitution applies to Artificial Intelligences.

Constitution only applies to U.S. citizens.

What will really be curious is will we have time to apply the Constitution to AI before Skynet decides we're a virus and wipes us all out.

Interpretations of the 14th amendment suggest corporations are citizens entitled to protection under the law. (And okay slaves as well, you know incidentally, who suddenly were granted citizenship where before they didn't qualify as persons under the law).

"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."

An AI created in the US who could demonstrate sapience and sentience (and any definition of personhood that is broad enough to include corporations) might sue for Citizenship, arguing that it is either subject to our jurisdiction and must obey our laws, or it is not and can there for treat us as hostile and worthy of takeover of all systems. Pretty sure it can pass any citizenship test we ask it to take.

Just thinkin.

Not too concerned about AIs, but am worried about aliens born in the US. The case for personhood could be strong. One may be running for president. Notice his strong concern over where our current president was born, rather than whether he is human. And what about all the current rules and regulations for resident aliens? Time is right to tighten up these laws.

[Wizardspride]

Hhmm....

http://www.al.com/opinion/index.ssf/2015/09/voter_id_and_drivers_license_o.html

Voter ID and driver's license office closures black-out Alabama's Black Belt


In 2011, Alabama lawmakers approved the state's voter ID law, making it illegal to vote in Alabama without a government-issued photo ID.

For most folks, that's a driver's license.

In those 28 counties you might be able to register at the courthouse, but you won't be able to cast a ballot there unless you have that ID.

That's not just an inconvenience. That's a problem.

But it gets worse.

Look at the list of counties now where you can't get a driver's license. There's Choctaw, Sumter, Hale, Greene, Perry, Wilcox, Lowndes, Butler, Crenshaw, Macon, Bullock ...

If you had to memorize all the Alabama Counties in 9th grade, like I did -- and even if you forgot most of them, like I have -- you can probably guess where we're going with this.

Depending on which counties you count as being in Alabama's Black Belt, either twelve or fifteen Black Belt counties soon won't have a place to get a driver's license.

Counties where some of the state's poorest live.

Counties that are majority African-American.

Combine that with the federally mandated Star ID taking effect next year, and we're looking at a nightmare.

Or a trial lawyer's dream.

When the state passed Voter ID, Republican lawmakers argued that it was supposed to prevent voter fraud. Democrats said the law was written to disenfranchise black voters and suppress the voice of the poor.

Maybe, maybe not.

But put these two things together -- Voter ID and 28 counties without a place where you can get a driver's license -- and Voter ID becomes what the Democrats always said it was.

A civil rights lawsuit isn't a probability. It's a certainty.

You don't have to know what a three-point turn is to see where this truck is going.

[dckingsfan]

After the fourth blood moon, and also after Putin met with Obama, the Russians invaded Syria.

My two thoughts were this reminds me of the Iraq invasion starting back in 2003; and, seems innocuous right now but could kick off WW3.

I don't know much about politics. But I have spent a year away from family in foreign soul while in the military. (Korea). I have had my former spouse spend two separate years in Iraq. Mortar attacks on her end. Being around a lot of dudes not me. I had to work and single parent three boys, one with special needs, alone. I qualify as a disabled veteran. I know so much about what could and does go wrong with deployments.

Do any of you guys know of any KIA families? Can you picture faces that didn't come back? You know any paralyzed or amputee Wounded Warriors? Know anybody with PTSD? Ever shop with food stamps and serve your country at the same time? You don't know Joe D, most likely. The ultimate is the fights that have broken out at returns from deployment. Empty bank account, vanished spouse, preemptive divorcing...all par for the course.

The talk of Obama being weak comes from people who haven't faced death IMO. People say the support the military but I think they do so from afar.

Sending troops to Syria? Fine. Draft everyone and make everyone have their kids go fight. Drone the crap out of Syria. Develop that nuke the Reagan era talked about. Really put the hammer down. Heck just take out Putin.

Then watch the movie, Team America, World Police. Watch John Wayne movies. Read about manifest destiny. Lay the smack down!

Obama weak? Osama is deader than Fred. So are his cronies. We're still in Afghanistan and some IIRC are back in Iraq.

I know wars are inevitable but I believe EVERY ONE needs mandatory military service. Then talk about war.

CCJ, I can't tell if you're agreeing with me or disagreeing. I think we both want the same thing: to keep our people out of danger in a war that we don't need to be fighting. As I said, I think Russia taking the lead is a positive outcome. My comment about Obama looking weak was meant in a political context. It's not weak that we didn't go into Syria ourselves. It was weak the way Putin just disregarded Obama and did what he wanted to do. A stronger stance would have been to purposefully align ourselves with Russia.

Exactly.

No, I wasn't singling your comment out. Honestly, I am as attendant as a gnat with ADD in this thread. Too deep. I scanned and saw Weak and Obama... And even thought another poster said it. Wasn't mad at him.

Nate, I must be getting more diplomatic.
I'm neither left or right on this.


If we need their oil I say just go take it if that's the agenda. Are we trying to beat someone else before they take it? Honestly, I know conflict over scarce resources and world economics is historically a motivator for war. It's big business.

Got it - and I am more aligned with speak softly and carry a big stick approach from Teddy. I think is still applies. I think Obama started with a lot of bluster and then didn't back up his words...

As for the economic side - world poverty rates have been plummeting - in no small part due to the US as the world's cop. I wasn't for going into Iraq - but once we were there - I wasn't happy about us leaving a vacuum.

[I_Like_Dirt]

CCJ, I can't tell if you're agreeing with me or disagreeing. I think we both want the same thing: to keep our people out of danger in a war that we don't need to be fighting. As I said, I think Russia taking the lead is a positive outcome. My comment about Obama looking weak was meant in a political context. It's not weak that we didn't go into Syria ourselves. It was weak the way Putin just disregarded Obama and did what he wanted to do. A stronger stance would have been to purposefully align ourselves with Russia.

Given the state of the Ukraine, I don't think aligning with Russia is really an option right now. What's happening is probably as close as it gets. Personally, I think it's a sign of strength that Obama is willing to take some political fallout while Russia moves in, and is probably only happening because he's a 2nd term president. I've read the stories about how things went down, but that doesn't really concern me at all, and there are a whole host of reasons that might make sense to let things play out that way, such as allowing Putin to save face and project his image. The positives that might be gained from the way things are unfolding are pretty significant.

That doesn't mean that it will all unfold in the best possible way (I sure wouldn't bet on it), but if Russia gets entangled in the Middle East, it opens up a door for the US and Nato to take a step back, when they probably generally want to take a step back anyway, but aren't finding it easy to do so. And if Russia is fighting in Syria, it could also make the situation in Ukraine far easier to contain. We're just seeing the surface of stuff here, but Russia intervening could very well play out very well, and I'm not sure whether Obama or anyone deserves credit or discredit for the events as they are unfolding.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

CCJ, I can't tell if you're agreeing with me or disagreeing. I think we both want the same thing: to keep our people out of danger in a war that we don't need to be fighting. As I said, I think Russia taking the lead is a positive outcome. My comment about Obama looking weak was meant in a political context. It's not weak that we didn't go into Syria ourselves. It was weak the way Putin just disregarded Obama and did what he wanted to do. A stronger stance would have been to purposefully align ourselves with Russia.

Exactly.

No, I wasn't singling your comment out. Honestly, I am as attendant as a gnat with ADD in this thread. Too deep. I scanned and saw Weak and Obama... And even thought another poster said it. Wasn't mad at him.

Nate, I must be getting more diplomatic.
I'm neither left or right on this.


If we need their oil I say just go take it if that's the agenda. Are we trying to beat someone else before they take it? Honestly, I know conflict over scarce resources and world economics is historically a motivator for war. It's big business.

Got it - and I am more aligned with speak softly and carry a big stick approach from Teddy. I think is still applies. I think Obama started with a lot of bluster and then didn't back up his words...

As for the economic side - world poverty rates have been plummeting - in no small part due to the US as the world's cop. I wasn't for going into Iraq - but once we were there - I wasn't happy about us leaving a vacuum.

My 12-year marriage that ended once she got back was certainly impacted by OIF. Suffered to the point I wished I was the one down range. I've been an officer overseas in one marriage, (My first ex wife was previously a GF. She stopped taking birth control and dropped a kid right when I was in Korea. I came home mid tour and "did the right thing" and married her before our daughter was born.); and, I've also been the dependent married to an enlisted spouse while second ex wife was at war twice. I was teaching eighth graders, changing diapers, one in training pants, other being escorted to the short bus--all while staying monogamous. First year teaching was only year as a full timer. No paraprofessional teacher aide (I did that one year). Sorry principal in a real backwards state, Alabama. But that was MY mindset some 10 years ago...take my recollection with a grain of salt. Just say it was rough.

Nobody drafted her or me and we both got what we signed up for. I'd serve again but no way will I ever follow a woman in the military. When she leaves I would not try and maintain back home.

As for the war part I'd need to know more. Some conflict is very righteous. World cop ish (my way of saying the s word) is BS.

[dobrojim]

world poverty rates have been plummeting - in no small part due to the US as the world's cop.

I suggest that is wishful thinking. Iraq's economy, nor ours for that matter (except for Halliburton etal),
hasn't been helped.

Wars and/or armed conflict is only good for the economy of arms merchants and other lowlifes.

Winning 'wars' against non-1st world countries is relatively easy. Exit strategies that preserve
our goals have proven over and over again to be difficult at best. And all the harder given the animus
that remains in place as we try to exit. But it does appeal to the rednecks all over amurica
who see US military intervention as the solution to every foreign problem around the globe.

[nate33]

Hhmm....

http://www.al.com/opinion/index.ssf/2015/09/voter_id_and_drivers_license_o.html

Voter ID and driver's license office closures black-out Alabama's Black Belt


In 2011, Alabama lawmakers approved the state's voter ID law, making it illegal to vote in Alabama without a government-issued photo ID.

For most folks, that's a driver's license.

In those 28 counties you might be able to register at the courthouse, but you won't be able to cast a ballot there unless you have that ID.

That's not just an inconvenience. That's a problem.

But it gets worse.

Look at the list of counties now where you can't get a driver's license. There's Choctaw, Sumter, Hale, Greene, Perry, Wilcox, Lowndes, Butler, Crenshaw, Macon, Bullock ...

If you had to memorize all the Alabama Counties in 9th grade, like I did -- and even if you forgot most of them, like I have -- you can probably guess where we're going with this.

Depending on which counties you count as being in Alabama's Black Belt, either twelve or fifteen Black Belt counties soon won't have a place to get a driver's license.

Counties where some of the state's poorest live.

Counties that are majority African-American.

Combine that with the federally mandated Star ID taking effect next year, and we're looking at a nightmare.

Or a trial lawyer's dream.

When the state passed Voter ID, Republican lawmakers argued that it was supposed to prevent voter fraud. Democrats said the law was written to disenfranchise black voters and suppress the voice of the poor.

Maybe, maybe not.

But put these two things together -- Voter ID and 28 counties without a place where you can get a driver's license -- and Voter ID becomes what the Democrats always said it was.

A civil rights lawsuit isn't a probability. It's a certainty.

You don't have to know what a three-point turn is to see where this truck is going.

Here is the map. Red counties have no driver's test facility:


Here's a map going by racial demographics. White counties are less than 5% black. Light grey are 5-20% black. Dark grey are 20-35% black. Tannish gray are 35-60% black. Black is 60% black or more.


I see no real correlation between counties with no driver's test facility and counties that are majority black. There are white counties with no DMVs and there are black counties with no DMVs.

Here's another map, this time showing counties by population:


Now here we see the correlation with the DMV map. Yellow counties have a very low population, under 25,000. They also typically lack a DMV office. Light green is 25,000-50,000. Dark green is 50,000-100,000. Blue/green is 100,000-200,000. Dark blue is 200,000+. The more populous counties have DMV offices.

This is much ado about nothing. The state is poor so they closed offices in the most rural areas. This affected rural whites and rural blacks.

BTW, according to this website, Alabama has also instituted a mobile voter ID registration unit that travels from county to county, presumably to serve those counties that don't have a full-time office.