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Political Roundtable Part XV

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Re: Political Roundtable Part XV 

Post#1321 » by popper » Wed Oct 18, 2017 1:00 am

cammac wrote:
popper wrote:
cammac wrote:
I obviously know the difference and that part of our Bill of Rights is used extremely rarely the last time was over 10 years ago. It is not used on crackpots but on serious attempts to cause harm against people because of religion or race. I haven't a problem with it nor do Canadians as a whole. I do have problems with neo-nazis carrying firearms 1/2 my extended family was killed fighting that plague. My ex had most of her extended family killed in concentration camps.

Canadians tend to be much more progressive than Americans and far less isolationist plus our politicians can't be bought by the Koch Brothers or Democratic equivalents. Our Charter was written to be flexible to keep with the passage of time and our Supreme Court is not beholding to any political dogma but to interpret the laws that are fair to a changing society. A good example is the court overturned the laws pertaining to prostitution but gave the government one year to rewrite the laws per the guidance the court gave.

I have worked on leadership campaigns and in federal elections and while I may have disagreed with opponents I believe that they had the best interests of society. With Trudeau I agree with many of his policies but also disagree in certain areas. But one thing I applaud him for is that his cabinet is made up of 50% men and women and they represent the multicultural nature of our country.


I am very sorry for your and your extended family's losses as a result of the German national socialist party. My family has made similar sacrifices in a military capacity. As you must know, neo-nazis carrying firearms aren't murdering people in the US or Canada. It would be helpful to the thread if you would research and publish who is murdering Americans and Canadians.


No they just kill them with cars!!!!!! The biggest tragedy in America after 9-11 was the OKC bombing done by far right wing ideologue's.


Wow. Okc bombimg resulted in 168 deaths and none were a result of neo-nazism as far as I know. Pls correct me if I'm wrong. There were approx 15,000 homicides in the US 1995. Okc accounted for .011 of all US homicides that year. Why are you avoiding the cause and perpetrators of 99.89 of US homicides?
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XV 

Post#1322 » by verbal8 » Wed Oct 18, 2017 1:02 am

Wizardspride wrote:
As someone who voted for Obama (three times) ....



SD20 is from Chicago, so it might have been in the same election.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XV 

Post#1323 » by verbal8 » Wed Oct 18, 2017 1:19 am

I wonder if there is some strategy behind Trump's feuding with Congressional Republicans. I tend to think it would be more likely to be on the side of the Republican establishment vs. some master plan by Trump.

Given Trump's dismal approval ratings, it could actually end up having an impact of making Republicans more appealing electorally if they are seen as in conflict with him vs. allied with him.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XV 

Post#1324 » by cammac » Wed Oct 18, 2017 1:46 am

popper wrote:
cammac wrote:
popper wrote:
I am very sorry for your and your extended family's losses as a result of the German national socialist party. My family has made similar sacrifices in a military capacity. As you must know, neo-nazis carrying firearms aren't murdering people in the US or Canada. It would be helpful to the thread if you would research and publish who is murdering Americans and Canadians.


No they just kill them with cars!!!!!! The biggest tragedy in America after 9-11 was the OKC bombing done by far right wing ideologue's.


Wow. Okc bombimg resulted in 168 deaths and none were a result of neo-nazism as far as I know. Pls correct me if I'm wrong. There were approx 15,000 homicides in the US 1995. Okc accounted for .011 of all US homicides that year. Why are you avoiding the cause and perpetrators of 99.89 of US homicides?


The reason for the murders are the irresponsible gun laws in the USA and the NRA who bribe politicians to support them. I have nothing against guns which are used for hunting or sport. In the USA I might even extend that to home protection while in Canada that isn't a high problem. Just look at Chicago which is one of the murder capitals in the USA which has strong gun control laws which doesn't matter because in Indiana anyone can buy a gun. Its hard to make sense of the American fixation for weapons and it also exports its problems to other countries in Mexico the USA is the primary armorer of the cartels. Wouldn't be more expedient to stop that traffic than build a wall. In Canada we have strict gun laws but guns are smuggled into Canada and used by criminals. After Las Vegas people are still defending bump stocks and large ammo clips give me a break.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XV 

Post#1325 » by popper » Wed Oct 18, 2017 9:11 am

cammac wrote:
popper wrote:
cammac wrote:
No they just kill them with cars!!!!!! The biggest tragedy in America after 9-11 was the OKC bombing done by far right wing ideologue's.


Wow. Okc bombimg resulted in 168 deaths and none were a result of neo-nazism as far as I know. Pls correct me if I'm wrong. There were approx 15,000 homicides in the US 1995. Okc accounted for .011 of all US homicides that year. Why are you avoiding the cause and perpetrators of 99.89 of US homicides?


The reason for the murders are the irresponsible gun laws in the USA and the NRA who bribe politicians to support them. I have nothing against guns which are used for hunting or sport. In the USA I might even extend that to home protection while in Canada that isn't a high problem. Just look at Chicago which is one of the murder capitals in the USA which has strong gun control laws which doesn't matter because in Indiana anyone can buy a gun. Its hard to make sense of the American fixation for weapons and it also exports its problems to other countries in Mexico the USA is the primary armorer of the cartels. Wouldn't be more expedient to stop that traffic than build a wall. In Canada we have strict gun laws but guns are smuggled into Canada and used by criminals. After Las Vegas people are still defending bump stocks and large ammo clips give me a break.


Words on a piece of paper (US gun laws) are not "the reason for murders" in this country cammac. If you're really interested in the subject I'd love to have that conversation with you. It's difficult though when you start off with a premise that is so obviously flawed.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XV 

Post#1326 » by popper » Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:11 am

Finally we have evidence that Russia colluded with top administration officials.

FBI uncovered Russian bribery plot before Obama administration approved controversial nuclear deal with Moscow
BY JOHN SOLOMON AND ALISON SPANN - 10/17/17 06:00 AM EDT

Before the Obama administration approved a controversial deal in 2010 giving Moscow control of a large swath of American uranium, the FBI had gathered substantial evidence that Russian nuclear industry officials were engaged in bribery, kickbacks, extortion and money laundering designed to grow Vladimir Putin’s atomic energy business inside the United States, according to government documents and interviews.

Federal agents used a confidential U.S. witness working inside the Russian nuclear industry to gather extensive financial records, make secret recordings and intercept emails as early as 2009 that showed Moscow had compromised an American uranium trucking firm with bribes and kickbacks in violation of the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act, FBI and court documents show.

They also obtained an eyewitness account — backed by documents — indicating Russian nuclear officials had routed millions of dollars to the U.S. designed to benefit former President Bill Clinton’s charitable foundation during the time Secretary of State Hillary Clinton served on a government body that provided a favorable decision to Moscow, sources told The Hill.
The racketeering scheme was conducted “with the consent of higher level officials” in Russia who “shared the proceeds” from the kickbacks, one agent declared in an affidavit years later.

Rather than bring immediate charges in 2010, however, the Department of Justice (DOJ) continued investigating the matter for nearly four more years, essentially leaving the American public and Congress in the dark about Russian nuclear corruption on U.S. soil during a period when the Obama administration made two major decisions benefiting Putin’s commercial nuclear ambitions.
The first decision occurred in October 2010, when the State Department and government agencies on the Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States unanimously approved the partial sale of Canadian mining company Uranium One to the Russian nuclear giant Rosatom, giving Moscow control of more than 20 percent of America’s uranium supply.

When this sale was used by Trump on the campaign trail last year, Hillary Clinton’s spokesman said she was not involved in the committee review and noted the State Department official who handled it said she “never intervened ... on any [Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States] matter.”

In 2011, the administration gave approval for Rosatom’s Tenex subsidiary to sell commercial uranium to U.S. nuclear power plants in a partnership with the United States Enrichment Corp. Before then, Tenex had been limited to selling U.S. nuclear power plants reprocessed uranium recovered from dismantled Soviet nuclear weapons under the 1990s Megatons to Megawatts peace program.

“The Russians were compromising American contractors in the nuclear industry with kickbacks and extortion threats, all of which raised legitimate national security concerns. And none of that evidence got aired before the Obama administration made those decisions,” a person who worked on the case told The Hill, speaking on condition of anonymity for fear of retribution by U.S. or Russian officials.

The Obama administration’s decision to approve Rosatom’s purchase of Uranium One has been a source of political controversy since 2015.

That’s when conservative author Peter Schweitzer and The New York Times documented how Bill Clinton collected hundreds of thousands of dollars in Russian speaking fees and his charitable foundation collected millions in donations from parties interested in the deal while Hillary Clinton presided on the Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States.

The Obama administration and the Clintons defended their actions at the time, insisting there was no evidence that any Russians or donors engaged in wrongdoing and there was no national security reason for any member of the committee to oppose the Uranium One deal.

But FBI, Energy Department and court documents reviewed by The Hill show the FBI in fact had gathered substantial evidence well before the committee’s decision that Vadim Mikerin — the main Russian overseeing Putin’s nuclear expansion inside the United States — was engaged in wrongdoing starting in 2009.

Then-Attorney General Eric Holder was among the Obama administration officials joining Hillary Clinton on the Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States at the time the Uranium One deal was approved. Multiple current and former government officials told The Hill they did not know whether the FBI or DOJ ever alerted committee members to the criminal activity they uncovered…………

http://thehill.com/policy/national-security/355749-fbi-uncovered-russian-bribery-plot-before-obama-administration
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XV 

Post#1327 » by cammac » Wed Oct 18, 2017 2:08 pm

popper wrote:
cammac wrote:
popper wrote:
Wow. Okc bombimg resulted in 168 deaths and none were a result of neo-nazism as far as I know. Pls correct me if I'm wrong. There were approx 15,000 homicides in the US 1995. Okc accounted for .011 of all US homicides that year. Why are you avoiding the cause and perpetrators of 99.89 of US homicides?


The reason for the murders are the irresponsible gun laws in the USA and the NRA who bribe politicians to support them. I have nothing against guns which are used for hunting or sport. In the USA I might even extend that to home protection while in Canada that isn't a high problem. Just look at Chicago which is one of the murder capitals in the USA which has strong gun control laws which doesn't matter because in Indiana anyone can buy a gun. Its hard to make sense of the American fixation for weapons and it also exports its problems to other countries in Mexico the USA is the primary armorer of the cartels. Wouldn't be more expedient to stop that traffic than build a wall. In Canada we have strict gun laws but guns are smuggled into Canada and used by criminals. After Las Vegas people are still defending bump stocks and large ammo clips give me a break.


Words on a piece of paper (US gun laws) are not "the reason for murders" in this country cammac. If you're really interested in the subject I'd love to have that conversation with you. It's difficult though when you start off with a premise that is so obviously flawed.


Yes violence in America has many other factors but it is a start obvious underlying factors is the lack of quality education for all and the subsequent lack of opportunities for advancement in the the job market. The USA is the only advanced democracy without gun controls.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XV 

Post#1328 » by Pointgod » Wed Oct 18, 2017 2:12 pm

popper wrote:Finally we have evidence that Russia colluded with top administration officials.

FBI uncovered Russian bribery plot before Obama administration approved controversial nuclear deal with Moscow
BY JOHN SOLOMON AND ALISON SPANN - 10/17/17 06:00 AM EDT

Before the Obama administration approved a controversial deal in 2010 giving Moscow control of a large swath of American uranium, the FBI had gathered substantial evidence that Russian nuclear industry officials were engaged in bribery, kickbacks, extortion and money laundering designed to grow Vladimir Putin’s atomic energy business inside the United States, according to government documents and interviews.

Federal agents used a confidential U.S. witness working inside the Russian nuclear industry to gather extensive financial records, make secret recordings and intercept emails as early as 2009 that showed Moscow had compromised an American uranium trucking firm with bribes and kickbacks in violation of the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act, FBI and court documents show.

They also obtained an eyewitness account — backed by documents — indicating Russian nuclear officials had routed millions of dollars to the U.S. designed to benefit former President Bill Clinton’s charitable foundation during the time Secretary of State Hillary Clinton served on a government body that provided a favorable decision to Moscow, sources told The Hill.
The racketeering scheme was conducted “with the consent of higher level officials” in Russia who “shared the proceeds” from the kickbacks, one agent declared in an affidavit years later.

Rather than bring immediate charges in 2010, however, the Department of Justice (DOJ) continued investigating the matter for nearly four more years, essentially leaving the American public and Congress in the dark about Russian nuclear corruption on U.S. soil during a period when the Obama administration made two major decisions benefiting Putin’s commercial nuclear ambitions.
The first decision occurred in October 2010, when the State Department and government agencies on the Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States unanimously approved the partial sale of Canadian mining company Uranium One to the Russian nuclear giant Rosatom, giving Moscow control of more than 20 percent of America’s uranium supply.

When this sale was used by Trump on the campaign trail last year, Hillary Clinton’s spokesman said she was not involved in the committee review and noted the State Department official who handled it said she “never intervened ... on any [Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States] matter.”

In 2011, the administration gave approval for Rosatom’s Tenex subsidiary to sell commercial uranium to U.S. nuclear power plants in a partnership with the United States Enrichment Corp. Before then, Tenex had been limited to selling U.S. nuclear power plants reprocessed uranium recovered from dismantled Soviet nuclear weapons under the 1990s Megatons to Megawatts peace program.

“The Russians were compromising American contractors in the nuclear industry with kickbacks and extortion threats, all of which raised legitimate national security concerns. And none of that evidence got aired before the Obama administration made those decisions,” a person who worked on the case told The Hill, speaking on condition of anonymity for fear of retribution by U.S. or Russian officials.

The Obama administration’s decision to approve Rosatom’s purchase of Uranium One has been a source of political controversy since 2015.

That’s when conservative author Peter Schweitzer and The New York Times documented how Bill Clinton collected hundreds of thousands of dollars in Russian speaking fees and his charitable foundation collected millions in donations from parties interested in the deal while Hillary Clinton presided on the Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States.

The Obama administration and the Clintons defended their actions at the time, insisting there was no evidence that any Russians or donors engaged in wrongdoing and there was no national security reason for any member of the committee to oppose the Uranium One deal.

But FBI, Energy Department and court documents reviewed by The Hill show the FBI in fact had gathered substantial evidence well before the committee’s decision that Vadim Mikerin — the main Russian overseeing Putin’s nuclear expansion inside the United States — was engaged in wrongdoing starting in 2009.

Then-Attorney General Eric Holder was among the Obama administration officials joining Hillary Clinton on the Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States at the time the Uranium One deal was approved. Multiple current and former government officials told The Hill they did not know whether the FBI or DOJ ever alerted committee members to the criminal activity they uncovered…………

http://thehill.com/policy/national-security/355749-fbi-uncovered-russian-bribery-plot-before-obama-administration


Jesus not this crap again. The right need to give up their obsession with Hillary Clinton and this false story that she sold Uranium to Russia. Second thing the right needs to do is make up their mind whether or not Russia is a friend to the US or bad actor. Maybe instead of focusing on the previous administration they should focus on the mess of the current administration and the failure of the Republican Party to govern.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XV 

Post#1329 » by stilldropin20 » Wed Oct 18, 2017 3:46 pm

gtn130 wrote:
popper wrote:I’m interested to know whether participants on this thread agree with the following distinction between liberal and progressive thought / means.

“Traditional liberals, who have long held sway in the Democratic Party, want to create “a kinder and gentler society, which is nonetheless fiercely devoted to providing civil liberties to all – including free speech as well as fair [due] process in criminal and disciplinary matters,” said Silverglate. The classic example is the ACLU’s effort in 1978 to allow Nazis to march in Skokie, Ill.

Progressives, he said, are committed to achieving their social and economic agenda “at whatever cost to civil liberties.”

They are more likely to support laws restricting “hate speech.” Many progressives – most notably those who have shut down speakers at Middlebury, Berkeley and other college campuses – argue that the First Amendment is a tool of oppression used by the privileged to brainwash the public. “The notion of freedom of speech is being co-opted by dominant social groups, distorted to serve their interests, and used to silence those who are oppressed and marginalized,” professors Kate Manne of Cornell and Jason Stanley of Yale wrote in the Chronicle of Higher Education.”

http://www.realclearinvestigations.com/articles/2017/10/16/liberal_intolerance.html


Dude, this caricature of 'progressives' you've construed in your mind isn't actually a thing. Like, I don't even think 'progressives' as a collective body have made any pronouncements at all regarding free speech. It's not really a serious topic.

That said, I'm fine with Nazis not being allowed to host rallies. Similarly, I also prefer that ISIS recruiters can't host rallies. But that's really it. Otherwise I don't care what people give speeches about. My line in the sand is when the event is organized by terrorists with the intent of galvanizing people to commit acts of violence.

If you can't differentiate between Nazis and normal people, that's on you.


the normal people that enslaved afican americans for nearly 400 years? or the normal people that dropped 2 massive bombs on civilians in Japan killing nearly 100K people and creating very high cancer rates in the region for decades?

which normal and good people are we talking about exactly? oh the french? the italians!!? the greeks!!?? the aztecs!!? the mayans??i just dont know where to find those "normal" people. still looking though.

let me help. everyone is self serving. accept it for it is the way of the human nature.
like i said, its a full rebuild.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XV 

Post#1330 » by stilldropin20 » Wed Oct 18, 2017 4:01 pm

popper wrote:Finally we have evidence that Russia colluded with top administration officials.

FBI uncovered Russian bribery plot before Obama administration approved controversial nuclear deal with Moscow
BY JOHN SOLOMON AND ALISON SPANN - 10/17/17 06:00 AM EDT

Before the Obama administration approved a controversial deal in 2010 giving Moscow control of a large swath of American uranium, the FBI had gathered substantial evidence that Russian nuclear industry officials were engaged in bribery, kickbacks, extortion and money laundering designed to grow Vladimir Putin’s atomic energy business inside the United States, according to government documents and interviews.

Federal agents used a confidential U.S. witness working inside the Russian nuclear industry to gather extensive financial records, make secret recordings and intercept emails as early as 2009 that showed Moscow had compromised an American uranium trucking firm with bribes and kickbacks in violation of the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act, FBI and court documents show.

They also obtained an eyewitness account — backed by documents — indicating Russian nuclear officials had routed millions of dollars to the U.S. designed to benefit former President Bill Clinton’s charitable foundation during the time Secretary of State Hillary Clinton served on a government body that provided a favorable decision to Moscow, sources told The Hill.
The racketeering scheme was conducted “with the consent of higher level officials” in Russia who “shared the proceeds” from the kickbacks, one agent declared in an affidavit years later.

Rather than bring immediate charges in 2010, however, the Department of Justice (DOJ) continued investigating the matter for nearly four more years, essentially leaving the American public and Congress in the dark about Russian nuclear corruption on U.S. soil during a period when the Obama administration made two major decisions benefiting Putin’s commercial nuclear ambitions.
The first decision occurred in October 2010, when the State Department and government agencies on the Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States unanimously approved the partial sale of Canadian mining company Uranium One to the Russian nuclear giant Rosatom, giving Moscow control of more than 20 percent of America’s uranium supply.

When this sale was used by Trump on the campaign trail last year, Hillary Clinton’s spokesman said she was not involved in the committee review and noted the State Department official who handled it said she “never intervened ... on any [Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States] matter.”

In 2011, the administration gave approval for Rosatom’s Tenex subsidiary to sell commercial uranium to U.S. nuclear power plants in a partnership with the United States Enrichment Corp. Before then, Tenex had been limited to selling U.S. nuclear power plants reprocessed uranium recovered from dismantled Soviet nuclear weapons under the 1990s Megatons to Megawatts peace program.

“The Russians were compromising American contractors in the nuclear industry with kickbacks and extortion threats, all of which raised legitimate national security concerns. And none of that evidence got aired before the Obama administration made those decisions,” a person who worked on the case told The Hill, speaking on condition of anonymity for fear of retribution by U.S. or Russian officials.

The Obama administration’s decision to approve Rosatom’s purchase of Uranium One has been a source of political controversy since 2015.

That’s when conservative author Peter Schweitzer and The New York Times documented how Bill Clinton collected hundreds of thousands of dollars in Russian speaking fees and his charitable foundation collected millions in donations from parties interested in the deal while Hillary Clinton presided on the Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States.

The Obama administration and the Clintons defended their actions at the time, insisting there was no evidence that any Russians or donors engaged in wrongdoing and there was no national security reason for any member of the committee to oppose the Uranium One deal.

But FBI, Energy Department and court documents reviewed by The Hill show the FBI in fact had gathered substantial evidence well before the committee’s decision that Vadim Mikerin — the main Russian overseeing Putin’s nuclear expansion inside the United States — was engaged in wrongdoing starting in 2009.

Then-Attorney General Eric Holder was among the Obama administration officials joining Hillary Clinton on the Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States at the time the Uranium One deal was approved. Multiple current and former government officials told The Hill they did not know whether the FBI or DOJ ever alerted committee members to the criminal activity they uncovered…………

http://thehill.com/policy/national-security/355749-fbi-uncovered-russian-bribery-plot-before-obama-administration


i want the full weight of the fbi on this one as well as the justice department. I want a full probe and I dont care if it takes 10 more years. and if they find what it looks like they are going to find I want to see the Clintons robbed of all of their wealth. all of their personal and foundatoin welath wiped out. then i want jail time. Espeically hillary. If chelsea was involved on any level, jail time. thats how we do a drug deal off the streets found with $10K and an ounce of coke. no different for someone peddling uranium from the secretary of states office.

This is why i voted for sanders. and this is why i supported trump over hillary. it all started right here.
like i said, its a full rebuild.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XV 

Post#1331 » by stilldropin20 » Wed Oct 18, 2017 5:11 pm

popper wrote:
cammac wrote:
popper wrote:
I am very sorry for your and your extended family's losses as a result of the German national socialist party. My family has made similar sacrifices in a military capacity. As you must know, neo-nazis carrying firearms aren't murdering people in the US or Canada. It would be helpful to the thread if you would research and publish who is murdering Americans and Canadians.


No they just kill them with cars!!!!!! The biggest tragedy in America after 9-11 was the OKC bombing done by far right wing ideologue's.


Wow. Okc bombimg resulted in 168 deaths and none were a result of neo-nazism as far as I know. Pls correct me if I'm wrong. There were approx 15,000 homicides in the US 1995. Okc accounted for .011 of all US homicides that year. Why are you avoiding the cause and perpetrators of 99.89 of US homicides?


exactly. whats even more insane is when you compare how many murders are caused from assault rifles. i know we just had 58. and its awful. but statistically its a mere fraction of a fraction of all murder. year after year its statistically insignificant.

assault rifles are a hot button right now. but they are clearly not the problem. some psycho will use, vehicles, bombs, poison, etc. what they use is not the problem. monitoring ALL of these potential weapons is a potential solution, though. as is planning a defense against the potential use of them.

you will find though that the more we monitor and plan against the use of these potential weapons of destruction, the more we give up our liberties along the way.

every single senseless life lost is a tragedy no doubt. but the current set of of existing murder statistics will bear out that its likely not worth the civil liberties we give up. Or at some point, we will end up in a police state. constantly monitored. national curfews. etc. etc. to save maybe 150 deaths per year. meanwhile opium overdose is near 20,000 deaths annually: and only republicans are talking about that.

on that front, I'll take the risks of a free and open society for $200, Alex.
like i said, its a full rebuild.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XV 

Post#1332 » by Wizardspride » Wed Oct 18, 2017 5:15 pm

http://www.businessinsider.com/former-troll-russia-disinformation-campaign-trump-2017-10?utm_content=buffer2293a&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer-bi

'Our task was to set Americans against their own government': New details emerge about Russia's trolling operation



'"It’s not just writing ‘Obama is a monkey’ and ‘Putin is great.’ They’ll even fine you for that kind of [primitive] stuff," he told Dozhd. In fact, those who worked for the foreign desk were restricted from spreading pro-Russia propaganda. Rather, Max said, their job was more qualitative and was geared toward understanding the "nuances" of American politics to "rock the boat" on divisive issues like gun control and LGBT rights.

"Our goal wasn’t to turn the Americans toward Russia," he added. "Our task was to set Americans against their own government: to provoke unrest and discontent, and to lower Obama’s support ratings."'

An entire department, the "Department of Provocations," was dedicated to that goal: Its primary objective was to disseminate fake news and sow discord in the West, according to CNN
.

President Donald Trump referred to African countries, Haiti and El Salvador as "shithole" nations during a meeting Thursday and asked why the U.S. can't have more immigrants from Norway.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XV 

Post#1333 » by Wizardspride » Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:24 pm

We all know (at least most of us) what/who Trump is but this week he's sunk to a new low.

I can't wrap my head around what he said to that grieving widow.

I mean even if he meant no harm, dude just has no sense of empathy.

And that's why I laugh when people claim Trump is on America's side.

What in his history indicates that?

Hell, it's quite the opposite.

:nonono:

President Donald Trump referred to African countries, Haiti and El Salvador as "shithole" nations during a meeting Thursday and asked why the U.S. can't have more immigrants from Norway.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XV 

Post#1334 » by Wizardspride » Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:08 pm

Read on Twitter

President Donald Trump referred to African countries, Haiti and El Salvador as "shithole" nations during a meeting Thursday and asked why the U.S. can't have more immigrants from Norway.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XV 

Post#1335 » by popper » Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:22 pm

cammac wrote:
popper wrote:
cammac wrote:
The reason for the murders are the irresponsible gun laws in the USA and the NRA who bribe politicians to support them. I have nothing against guns which are used for hunting or sport. In the USA I might even extend that to home protection while in Canada that isn't a high problem. Just look at Chicago which is one of the murder capitals in the USA which has strong gun control laws which doesn't matter because in Indiana anyone can buy a gun. Its hard to make sense of the American fixation for weapons and it also exports its problems to other countries in Mexico the USA is the primary armorer of the cartels. Wouldn't be more expedient to stop that traffic than build a wall. In Canada we have strict gun laws but guns are smuggled into Canada and used by criminals. After Las Vegas people are still defending bump stocks and large ammo clips give me a break.


Words on a piece of paper (US gun laws) are not "the reason for murders" in this country cammac. If you're really interested in the subject I'd love to have that conversation with you. It's difficult though when you start off with a premise that is so obviously flawed.


Yes violence in America has many other factors but it is a start obvious underlying factors is the lack of quality education for all and the subsequent lack of opportunities for advancement in the the job market. The USA is the only advanced democracy without gun controls.


Agree with your first two points but we do have extensive gun controls in most big cities.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XV 

Post#1336 » by Pointgod » Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:28 pm

Wizardspride wrote:We all know (at least most of us) what/who Trump is but this week he's sunk to a new low.

I can't wrap my head around what he said to that grieving widow.

I mean even if he meant no harm, dude just has no sense of empathy.

And that's why I laugh when people claim Trump is on America's side.

What in his history indicates that?

Hell, it's quite the opposite.

:nonono:


He's the text book example of a sociopathic conman. He's good at telling people what they want to hear but he's not capable of actually demonstrating empathy.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XV 

Post#1337 » by Wizardspride » Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:32 pm

Pointgod wrote:
Wizardspride wrote:We all know (at least most of us) what/who Trump is but this week he's sunk to a new low.

I can't wrap my head around what he said to that grieving widow.

I mean even if he meant no harm, dude just has no sense of empathy.

And that's why I laugh when people claim Trump is on America's side.

What in his history indicates that?

Hell, it's quite the opposite.

:nonono:


He's the text book example of a sociopathic conman. He's good at telling people what they want to hear but he's not capable of actually demonstrating empathy.

Exactly....and that's why I can't understand WHY his supporters think he's empathetic to their plight.

President Donald Trump referred to African countries, Haiti and El Salvador as "shithole" nations during a meeting Thursday and asked why the U.S. can't have more immigrants from Norway.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XV 

Post#1338 » by Pointgod » Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:33 pm

popper wrote:
cammac wrote:
popper wrote:
Words on a piece of paper (US gun laws) are not "the reason for murders" in this country cammac. If you're really interested in the subject I'd love to have that conversation with you. It's difficult though when you start off with a premise that is so obviously flawed.


Yes violence in America has many other factors but it is a start obvious underlying factors is the lack of quality education for all and the subsequent lack of opportunities for advancement in the the job market. The USA is the only advanced democracy without gun controls.


Agree with your first two points but we do have extensive gun controls in most big cities.


I think canmac's point and it's a relevant point is that you need national gun control. Gun control in certain cities or states is ineffective when someone can cross state lines to buy one.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XV 

Post#1339 » by gtn130 » Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:38 pm

stilldropin20 wrote:
gtn130 wrote:
popper wrote:I’m interested to know whether participants on this thread agree with the following distinction between liberal and progressive thought / means.

“Traditional liberals, who have long held sway in the Democratic Party, want to create “a kinder and gentler society, which is nonetheless fiercely devoted to providing civil liberties to all – including free speech as well as fair [due] process in criminal and disciplinary matters,” said Silverglate. The classic example is the ACLU’s effort in 1978 to allow Nazis to march in Skokie, Ill.

Progressives, he said, are committed to achieving their social and economic agenda “at whatever cost to civil liberties.”

They are more likely to support laws restricting “hate speech.” Many progressives – most notably those who have shut down speakers at Middlebury, Berkeley and other college campuses – argue that the First Amendment is a tool of oppression used by the privileged to brainwash the public. “The notion of freedom of speech is being co-opted by dominant social groups, distorted to serve their interests, and used to silence those who are oppressed and marginalized,” professors Kate Manne of Cornell and Jason Stanley of Yale wrote in the Chronicle of Higher Education.”

http://www.realclearinvestigations.com/articles/2017/10/16/liberal_intolerance.html


Dude, this caricature of 'progressives' you've construed in your mind isn't actually a thing. Like, I don't even think 'progressives' as a collective body have made any pronouncements at all regarding free speech. It's not really a serious topic.

That said, I'm fine with Nazis not being allowed to host rallies. Similarly, I also prefer that ISIS recruiters can't host rallies. But that's really it. Otherwise I don't care what people give speeches about. My line in the sand is when the event is organized by terrorists with the intent of galvanizing people to commit acts of violence.

If you can't differentiate between Nazis and normal people, that's on you.


the normal people that enslaved afican americans for nearly 400 years? or the normal people that dropped 2 massive bombs on civilians in Japan killing nearly 100K people and creating very high cancer rates in the region for decades?

which normal and good people are we talking about exactly? oh the french? the italians!!? the greeks!!?? the aztecs!!? the mayans??i just dont know where to find those "normal" people. still looking though.

let me help. everyone is self serving. accept it for it is the way of the human nature.


Hey SD20, this line of thinking is totally wrong and abhorrent, and on some level you know it. Daddy Trump may choose to equate Nazis with everyone else, but normal, decent people don't do that.

Most of your posts I find hilariously stupid and something I can tolerate, but this one stopped being funny for me. Do better.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XV 

Post#1340 » by cammac » Wed Oct 18, 2017 9:25 pm

Murder Rates Per 100,000
Canada 1.68
USA 4.88
Norway.56
Sweden 1.15
France 1.58
Germany .85
Switzerland .69 They have fewer gun laws than most of the other countries listed but much more restricted than USA
Australia .98
New Zealand .91
Japan .31
UK .92
Italy .78

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