Discussing Other Teams' Moves Part 2

Kanyewest · Post #1341 » by **Kanyewest** » Sun Jun 30, 2013 2:25 am

The problem with Celtics keeping Rondo around is that they might be mediocre enough to make the playoffs. Perhaps they are going for the tank to get Wiggins or Parker. They could just shut down Rondo for the whole season though.

Upper Decker · Post #1342 » by **Upper Decker** » Sun Jun 30, 2013 8:26 pm

Someone explain Houston's logic for pursuing Dwight? I just don't get it. They'd give up all their cap space for Dwight--who just doesn't move the needle anymore. It's not 2009. He can't carry teams any longer. His last couple of Magic teams were underachievers, the Lakers were just terrible. His FT shooting is become a monstrous issue, his defense isn't elite elite like it once was. Why just dump Asik? He was excellent last year AND has a great contract, so you can bring in a drama queen like Dwight? I don't think theres a huge upgrade from Asik to Dwight, especially for the coin they'll end up giving Dwight.

Kanyewest · Post #1343 » by **Kanyewest** » Sun Jun 30, 2013 10:05 pm

Upper Decker wrote:Someone explain Houston's logic for pursuing Dwight? I just don't get it. They'd give up all their cap space for Dwight--who just doesn't move the needle anymore. It's not 2009. He can't carry teams any longer. His last couple of Magic teams were underachievers, the Lakers were just terrible. His FT shooting is become a monstrous issue, his defense isn't elite elite like it once was. Why just dump Asik? He was excellent last year AND has a great contract, so you can bring in a drama queen like Dwight? I don't think theres a huge upgrade from Asik to Dwight, especially for the coin they'll end up giving Dwight.

In his last playoff appearance with the Magic he averaged 27.5 ppg and 15 rpg when Orlando was bounced from the first round. The big issue though is those back issues and if he can recover from them. The upgrade would be betting that Dwight gets some rest this offseason and his back heals. Also, D'Antoni offense was nowhere nearly as effective as utilizing him (although his numbers improved significantly with health, and with Gasol coming off the bench) as his past offense and McHale could be more effective utilizing him. But yeah a huge risk.

Dwight said that he wanted to play alongside Asik, so maybe he's willing to take less. Then again, Dwight Howard says a lot of things.

keynote · Post #1344 » by **keynote** » Sun Jun 30, 2013 11:06 pm

Knicks looking to add Bargnani, who will presumably play backup PF/C along with Amare-when-healthy.

That's not exactly a defensive powerhouse anchoring the second unit.

fishercob · Post #1345 » by **fishercob** » Sun Jun 30, 2013 11:17 pm

keynote wrote:Knicks looking to add Bargnani, who will presumably play backup PF/C along with Amare-when-healthy.

That's not exactly a defensive powerhouse anchoring the second unit.

Do you know what the Knicks just did? They traded two filler contracts, a 2016 first round pick, and two future seconds for Andrea Bargnani.

Do you know what the Wizards did not just do? Trade a filler contracts, a future first and two future seconds for Andrea Bargnani.

Small victories, people!!

Are any of you telling me that in the pre-Ted Ernie years this is not precisely the type of trade we would have made?

I can just hear Ernie's press conference: "He adds a new dimension to our team...he's very versatile....he was a former #1 overall pick, so we're very excited to be able to add a talent of his caliber."

Small victories, people. Small victories.

keynote · Post #1346 » by **keynote** » Sun Jun 30, 2013 11:40 pm

Bargs is a stretch 4 - if the thing you want to stretch is your budget. $22.5M over the next 2 years. Oof.

BarnabyJones · Post #1347 » by **BarnabyJones** » Sun Jun 30, 2013 11:45 pm

Masai Ujiri is a GD miracle worker. Raptors fans couldn't stand Bargnani.

Upper Decker · Post #1348 » by **Upper Decker** » Mon Jul 1, 2013 12:06 am

Kanyewest wrote:
Upper Decker wrote:Someone explain Houston's logic for pursuing Dwight? I just don't get it. They'd give up all their cap space for Dwight--who just doesn't move the needle anymore. It's not 2009. He can't carry teams any longer. His last couple of Magic teams were underachievers, the Lakers were just terrible. His FT shooting is become a monstrous issue, his defense isn't elite elite like it once was. Why just dump Asik? He was excellent last year AND has a great contract, so you can bring in a drama queen like Dwight? I don't think theres a huge upgrade from Asik to Dwight, especially for the coin they'll end up giving Dwight.

In his last playoff appearance with the Magic he averaged 27.5 ppg and 15 rpg when Orlando was bounced from the first round. The big issue though is those back issues and if he can recover from them. The upgrade would be betting that Dwight gets some rest this offseason and his back heals. Also, D'Antoni offense was nowhere nearly as effective as utilizing him (although his numbers improved significantly with health, and with Gasol coming off the bench) as his past offense and McHale could be more effective utilizing him. But yeah a huge risk.

Dwight said that he wanted to play alongside Asik, so maybe he's willing to take less. Then again, Dwight Howard says a lot of things.

IIRC the 27.5/15 playoff performance against the Hawks was when Atlanta basically said, eff it, you can try to beat us all you want, but we're playing you straight up and going to guard the 3 point line. Keep in mind that was more than 2 years ago. Dwight's older, slower, and more banged up.

If Dwight didn't want to play PnR offense with Steve Nash, why will he want to do that in Houston with Harden? He wants to be the "back to the basket" center and have the universe revolve around him. Why relegate Harden to a spot up shooter? I don't see how a Howard / Asik pairing works. It'd be the least skilled PF/CE pairing the in the league. They'd go from scoring 106ppg to 94ppg. Harden would be utterly useless with those two plodders clogging the lane.

Upper Decker · Post #1349 » by **Upper Decker** » Mon Jul 1, 2013 12:08 am

BarnabyJones wrote:Masai Ujiri is a GD miracle worker. Raptors fans couldn't stand Bargnani.

Denver is going to miss Masai. The Nuggets look like a train wreck right now. I can't believe how much they're hitching their wagon to Javale. McGee's gotten 4 coaches fired already and is now on his 6th babysitter. At some point a team needs to realize a player with a ton of potential just isn't going to develop.

Post #1350 » by **Rafael122** » Mon Jul 1, 2013 12:16 am

Upper Decker wrote:Someone explain Houston's logic for pursuing Dwight? I just don't get it. They'd give up all their cap space for Dwight--who just doesn't move the needle anymore. It's not 2009. He can't carry teams any longer. His last couple of Magic teams were underachievers, the Lakers were just terrible. His FT shooting is become a monstrous issue, his defense isn't elite elite like it once was. Why just dump Asik? He was excellent last year AND has a great contract, so you can bring in a drama queen like Dwight? I don't think theres a huge upgrade from Asik to Dwight, especially for the coin they'll end up giving Dwight.

My answer...why not? The team is already stacked.

PG - Lin
SG - Harden
SF - Parsons
PF - Asik
C - Howard

Then off the bench you have Terrence Jones, Donte Montiejunas, Caanan, Beverly, and as of now Thomas Robinson. At the moment they are probably 7-8 deep, they might sign a couple of guys on the cheap and they got themselves a team. And they're all young too, which is the sickest part.

fishercob · Post #1351 » by **fishercob** » Mon Jul 1, 2013 12:19 am

My dear lord. Bargnani has a 10% trade kicker/

mhd · Post #1352 » by **mhd** » Mon Jul 1, 2013 12:57 am

WOW, That's a GREAT trade for the Raptors. They get out of Barg's horrible deal and get a future 1st. I think the Raps will do everything they can to tank for Wiggins.

closg00 · Post #1353 » by **closg00** » Mon Jul 1, 2013 1:06 am

Wow again, Portland gets TRob for nothing. I guess there weren't any good draft-night deals available for him.

mhd · Post #1354 » by **mhd** » Mon Jul 1, 2013 1:08 am

I think the Raps are obviously tanking for Wiggins. I expect Gay to be on the block.

What about Gay for Jimmer+Salmons (expiring via team option)+Hayes? The Kings are going to be way better than all of these teams that are tanking. They might as well go for the playoff spot vacated by Utah and LAL likely.

Post #1355 » by **Rafael122** » Mon Jul 1, 2013 1:14 am

mhd wrote:I think the Raps are obviously tanking for Wiggins. I expect Gay to be on the block.

What about Gay for Jimmer+Salmons (expiring via team option)+Hayes? The Kings are going to be way better than all of these teams that are tanking. They might as well go for the playoff spot vacated by Utah and LAL likely.

They are better off keeping Gay. He still has $37 million due to him. Just keep him and get the savings in two years.

Chocolate City Jordanaire · Post #1356 » by **Chocolate City Jordanaire** » Mon Jul 1, 2013 1:28 am

fishercob wrote:
keynote wrote:Knicks looking to add Bargnani, who will presumably play backup PF/C along with Amare-when-healthy.

That's not exactly a defensive powerhouse anchoring the second unit.

Do you know what the Knicks just did? They traded two filler contracts, a 2016 first round pick, and two future seconds for Andrea Bargnani.

Do you know what the Wizards did not just do? Trade a filler contracts, a future first and two future seconds for Andrea Bargnani.

Small victories, people!!

Are any of you telling me that in the pre-Ted Ernie years this is not precisely the type of trade we would have made?

I can just hear Ernie's press conference: "He adds a new dimension to our team...he's very versatile....he was a former #1 overall pick, so we're very excited to be able to add a talent of his caliber."

Small victories, people. Small victories.

Yes. That's one bad trade that didn't take place. The Knicks are probably thinking of adding all the shooters they can, but Bargnani is pretty much a net-negative any time he's on the court.

FAH1223 · Post #1357 » by **FAH1223** » Mon Jul 1, 2013 2:09 am

closg00 wrote:Wow again, Portland gets TRob for nothing. I guess there weren't any good draft-night deals available for him.

Portland is under the cap to absorb Robinson.

Houston wanted to unload him without any returning salary so they have cap space to sign Howard

Kanyewest · Post #1358 » by **Kanyewest** » Mon Jul 1, 2013 2:13 am

I found this on Twitter.

so Knicks have now traded away first round picks in 2014 & 2016 and second-round picks in 2013, 2014, 2015 & 2016. And possibly 2017 & 2018.

fishercob · Post #1359 » by **fishercob** » Mon Jul 1, 2013 2:22 am

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:
fishercob wrote:
keynote wrote:Knicks looking to add Bargnani, who will presumably play backup PF/C along with Amare-when-healthy.

That's not exactly a defensive powerhouse anchoring the second unit.

Do you know what the Knicks just did? They traded two filler contracts, a 2016 first round pick, and two future seconds for Andrea Bargnani.

Do you know what the Wizards did not just do? Trade a filler contracts, a future first and two future seconds for Andrea Bargnani.

Small victories, people!!

Are any of you telling me that in the pre-Ted Ernie years this is not precisely the type of trade we would have made?

I can just hear Ernie's press conference: "He adds a new dimension to our team...he's very versatile....he was a former #1 overall pick, so we're very excited to be able to add a talent of his caliber."

Small victories, people. Small victories.

Yes. That's one bad trade that didn't take place. The Knicks are probably thinking of adding all the shooters they can, but Bargnani is pretty much a net-negative any time he's on the court.

If the Knicks are willing to to sacrifice defense and rebounding so that they can spread the floor and bomb away from the outside, they should just play Novak more. Bargnani have a little more of a varied game, but it's not a good game.

I like that the Knicks could take a big step back. This trade would make them worse IMO.

rockymac52 · Post #1360 » by **rockymac52** » Mon Jul 1, 2013 2:39 am

If Brooklyn doesn't trade for KG/Pierce/Terry, do the Knicks make this trade?