Official Trade Thread - Part XXV

[hands11]

I agree with fisher - the Bucks are in full blown tank mode - likely starting all young players effective tonight. They don't want a healthy Ilyasova screwing up by turning a loss into a win. Check out this popular Bucks fans website - devoted to the Bucks tanking http://saveourbucks.com/ . They even purchased a billboard to encourage the team to tank - and t-shirts. I'm sure the Bucks would be happy to do some sort of Ilyasova for Porter and filler trade. Porter would fit with their tank effort and be a nice trade chip for them in the offseason.

Why would we want Ilyasova ? I'm lost about the interest in this guy.

[hands11]

You'd have to pay me to take on that Ilyasova contract right now. 4 years at 7+ mil per for a non all-star stretch 4 seems terrible.

Agreed. That's what Ive been saying for the past year now and don't understand everyones obcession with this guy. Ya he's a stretch 4 that has shown a few flashes of decent play. But what I've seen of him he's very average and definitely would not want him on that contract. The second we get him, everyone will then complain he sucks and is overpaid.

Well that's worth something I guess. The Maynor thread is getting old. I'm onto the fire Wittman chant. We will need another topic after that.

[popper]

We're in a situation where TL needs to act with a long term mindset. IMO Wall, Beal, Webster and Nene (because he's untradeable) are the core going forward. Trade everyone else except GRJ perhaps and tank hard this year in order to retain our draft pick and set us up for future success.

I'm weary of Porter because his lateral quickness, especially on the defensive end, is the worst I've seen from the SF position in the entire league. Who can he cover? Will his quickness improve measurably with an off season? I'm highly skeptical therefore I'm for trading him.

Gortat, Ariza and Porter should return some quality pieces or picks as we approach the TD.

Of course all of the above assumes we let Wit and EG go ASAP.

[dckingsfan]

At this point and with how Ersan Ilyasova is playing, the Bucks should include picks to dump him.

He is playing that bad right now...

[Dark Faze]

Cavs looking to move Bynum in a situation where they have terrible bargaining power

I'd move Nene for Bynum and then just cut him. Get rid of Nenes contract real easy that way.

I'd let Gortat walk and trade Ariza for either a long term prospect, late 1st, whatever.

Suck bad enough to get our pick back from the Gortat move this way, Wall likely still makes all-star game before the losses start piling up post trade deadline.

Sit back and enjoy all the cap space from letting all of Ernies bench kids go in the offseason.

Analyze the market. Might offer Monroe a contract if he can start to play a bit better...not sure about max right now with his recent play.

None of this will happen but its nice to want things

[ozthegandp]

Cavs looking to move Bynum in a situation where they have terrible bargaining power

I'd move Nene for Bynum and then just cut him. Get rid of Nenes contract real easy that way.

I'd let Gortat walk and trade Ariza for either a long term prospect, late 1st, whatever.

Suck bad enough to get our pick back from the Gortat move this way, Wall likely still makes all-star game before the losses start piling up post trade deadline.

Sit back and enjoy all the cap space from letting all of Ernies bench kids go in the offseason.

Analyze the market. Might offer Monroe a contract if he can start to play a bit better...not sure about max right now with his recent play.

None of this will happen but its nice to want things

Man this would backfire so badly on us if we did it. The only good thing would be getting the pick back. The only reason free agents might sign with us in the offseason is because we are reasonably good already. You strip the team of three of its best players and tank and all the cap space in the world doesn't guarantee you get the players you want. see dallas.

[Dark Faze]

Cavs looking to move Bynum in a situation where they have terrible bargaining power

I'd move Nene for Bynum and then just cut him. Get rid of Nenes contract real easy that way.

I'd let Gortat walk and trade Ariza for either a long term prospect, late 1st, whatever.

Suck bad enough to get our pick back from the Gortat move this way, Wall likely still makes all-star game before the losses start piling up post trade deadline.

Sit back and enjoy all the cap space from letting all of Ernies bench kids go in the offseason.

Analyze the market. Might offer Monroe a contract if he can start to play a bit better...not sure about max right now with his recent play.

None of this will happen but its nice to want things

Man this would backfire so badly on us if we did it. The only good thing would be getting the pick back. The only reason free agents might sign with us in the offseason is because we are reasonably good already. You strip the team of three of its best players and tank and all the cap space in the world doesn't guarantee you get the players you want. see dallas.

Dallas was trying to get Deron Williams and Dwight Howard to sign with them--Wiz fans would be fine with just strong signings--Monroe, Amir Johnson, etc.

The alternative is to see if we can sign Gortat to a smaller extension at higher money so the original plan still holds weight--which is basically to have all major contracts outside of our core players expire along with Nene so we can see if we can attract an all-star like Durant after (hopefully) two solid years of playoff contention.

I'll admit to having a bit of "the sky is falling" complex right now as a result of the Beal injury...so I'm not exactly speaking of sound mind right now lol

[hands11]

LOL

Bynum probably telling Kyrie to pass the Fing ball

[dckingsfan]

The problem that is Josh Smith/Maurice Cheeks (arguably the worst coach in the NBA)

It seems like they aren't nearly on the same page:
http://www.mlive.com/pistons/index.ssf/ ... ith_p.html

My guess is that they will try to move either Monroe or Smith. Clearly Monroe is easier to move but Smith is the one that isn't getting along with the coach.

When is that trade deadline anyway?

[mhd]

Would the Nets trade Pierce for Josh Smith?

At this point, they have no other ways of improvement, aside from using the Pierce expiring to take on an overpaid player.

[nate33]

Letting Gortat and Ariza (and Booker and Seraphin) walk to generate max cap room is not gonna happen. We may as well get that idea out of our heads. I really don't see us trading Ariza at the Trade Deadline either. Ernie always falls in love with his players and never sells high. (And frankly, I have doubts whether any Ariza trade would help us in the long term anyhow. His trade value is diminished because of his impending UFA status.)

The only trades that I see this team making would be one involving sending away the expiring contracts of Ernie's Kids for a serviceable vet player, or maybe somehow participating in an Asik trade whereby we send out Gortat and get back Asik. The other possibility, although remote, would be to trade Porter for a young player at a different position.

With that in mind, I really think the best trade we could make would be to try and buy low on Ilyasova. With him playing bad, and with the Bucks in rebuild mode, they might give him away for expiring contracts. The sticking point is Maynor. We'd really need to include him as cap ballast and I don't see the Bucks biting. I would love to see Vesely + Maynor + Singleton (or Harrington) for Ilyasova.

[mhd]

Letting Gortat and Ariza (and Booker and Seraphin) walk to generate max cap room is not gonna happen. We may as well get that idea out of our heads. I really don't see us trading Ariza at the Trade Deadline either. Ernie always falls in love with his players and never sells high. (And frankly, I have doubts whether any Ariza trade would help us in the long term anyhow. His trade value is diminished because of his impending UFA status.)

The only trades that I see this team making would be one involving sending away the expiring contracts of Ernie's Kids for a serviceable vet player, or maybe somehow participating in an Asik trade whereby we send out Gortat and get back Asik. The other possibility, although remote, would be to trade Porter for a young player at a different position.

With that in mind, I really think the best trade we could make would be to try and buy low on Ilyasova. With him playing bad, and with the Bucks in rebuild mode, they might give him away for expiring contracts. The sticking point is Maynor. We'd really need to include him as cap ballast and I don't see the Bucks biting. I would love to see Vesely + Maynor + Singleton (or Harrington) for Ilyasova.

Yup. Ariza isn't going to fetch a Tobias Harris like Reddick did last year. I do fear Dallas as a potential Ariza suitor. We'll have to pay to keep Trevor, but he's such an awesome fit next to Wall.

Kanter had a good game yesterday (17 & 12). With Porter having a good game as well, is there a glimmer for that Porter for Kanter trade?

Maynor is only signed through next year, so he's not an albatross, and the Bucks are not a premier FA destination. I think they could still get more for Ersan.

I think Marvin Williams is a huge get as a potential stretch PF, that is under the radar. I doubt Utah trades him b/c he's expiring.

[theboomking]

I would rather not trade Ariza at this point. I don't think Porter is nearly ready to replace TA's production.

If we let Gortat expire, how much could we offer Monroe if we keep Ariza?

The only big trade I could see us making on the trade market is to move Nene to a contender.

[LyricalRico]

If we let Gortat expire, how much could we offer Monroe if we keep Ariza?

Not much. We would need cap space to sign Monroe, and the only way to do that is renounce every single free agent we have - including Ariza. Otherwise the cap holds negate the cap space.

[hands11]

Would the Nets trade Pierce for Josh Smith?

At this point, they have no other ways of improvement, aside from using the Pierce expiring to take on an overpaid player.

That wouldn't be a terrible move. What did they give up for Smith ?

One its face, I would do it. PP brings cred to an organization. He would raise their profile. He is also a HOF player that still has a good year in him and that's all his contract lasts anyway.

They also could use a Trevor A at SF. And they would have a ton of money next year

They should go after Boozer and Deng.

Make a trade for Monroe, Josh, Charlie V for Deng, Boozier Not sure of all the pieces. They have players to move.

Jennings/Billups, Deng, PP, Boozier, Drummonds would be a solid group.

They would mesh almost instantly.

[theboomking]

If we let Gortat expire, how much could we offer Monroe if we keep Ariza?

Not much. We would need cap space to sign Monroe, and the only way to do that is renounce every single free agent we have - including Ariza. Otherwise the cap holds negate the cap space.

It looks like we $43,165,480 on the books guaranteed for next season.

Wall/Maynor
Beal
Porter/Webster
Nene

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/washington.htm

The salary cap this year is 58,679,000. Lets assume it is 60 million next year. That only leaves us only $16,834,520 under the cap.

How do the rules work? I am assuming that if a player is renounced, signing him would then fall under the same rules as signing any player off another team. If we renounce Ariza, could we sign Monroe and resign Ariza with the MLE?

[LyricalRico]

How do the rules work? I am assuming that if a player is renounced, signing him would then fall under the same rules as signing any player off another team. If we renounce Ariza, could we sign Monroe and resign Ariza with the MLE?

Good question. The "E" in MLE stands for exception, meaning that is an exception to the salary cap for teams that are already near or over the cap. In order to have cap space, a team has to renounce all cap exceptions. This means Bird rights to free agents, and it also means the MLE.

Here's a quote from the CBA FAQs that says it a different way:

The whole idea behind an "exception" is that it is an exception to the rule which says a team cannot go over the salary cap. In other words, an exception is a mechanism which allows a team to function above the cap. If a team isn't over the cap, then the concept of an exception is moot. Therefore, if a team's team salary ever drops this far, its exceptions go away. A rule of thumb is that a team may have either exceptions or cap room, but it can't have both at the same time. However, a team in this situation does qualify to use the Room Mid-Level exception (see question number 25).

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q26

[theboomking]

How do the rules work? I am assuming that if a player is renounced, signing him would then fall under the same rules as signing any player off another team. If we renounce Ariza, could we sign Monroe and resign Ariza with the MLE?

Good question. The "E" in MLE stands for exception, meaning that is an exception to the salary cap for teams that are already near or over the cap. In order to have cap space, a team has to renounce all cap exceptions. This means Bird rights to free agents, and it also means the MLE.

Here's a quote from the CBA FAQs that says it a different way:

The whole idea behind an "exception" is that it is an exception to the rule which says a team cannot go over the salary cap. In other words, an exception is a mechanism which allows a team to function above the cap. If a team isn't over the cap, then the concept of an exception is moot. Therefore, if a team's team salary ever drops this far, its exceptions go away. A rule of thumb is that a team may have either exceptions or cap room, but it can't have both at the same time. However, a team in this situation does qualify to use the Room Mid-Level exception (see question number 25).

That doesn't really answer the question because if we renounced and signed Monroe and a backup, we would then be over the cap again, theoretically putting the mid-level back into play. No?



http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q26

[hands11]

If we let Gortat expire, how much could we offer Monroe if we keep Ariza?

Not much. We would need cap space to sign Monroe, and the only way to do that is renounce every single free agent we have - including Ariza. Otherwise the cap holds negate the cap space.

It looks like we $43,165,480 on the books guaranteed for next season.

Wall/Maynor
Beal
Porter/Webster
Nene

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/washington.htm

The salary cap this year is 58,679,000. Lets assume it is 60 million next year. That only leaves us only $16,834,520 under the cap.

How do the rules work? I am assuming that if a player is renounced, signing him would then fall under the same rules as signing any player off another team. If we renounce Ariza, could we sign Monroe and resign Ariza with the MLE?

We would sign who we want first and get to the cap, then use the MLE if we want.

A smart team would sign Monroe for no more the 12M. Its really important to not over pay for players. If the deal isn't right, wait for the next deal. There are very few have to have players in the league. Don't over pay for the ones that are not. Josh is another 12M or so player. Maybe a little less. That's the sweet spot. Something in the 12M range. From there, you sign player like KD for 18M/20M. From there you get solid utility starters like a TA for 5/6M or you get lower tier solid role players for 3/4M and then vet min players.

That's why Nene's deal doesn't bother me. He is in the 12M tier. 13M isn't to much for him. He is really good and a core team player. Just has some health issues.

Webster is signed to fair value. 4M would have been nicer but 5M is good. So is Wall if he stays on the path he is on. Actually most of our contract are fair value. Ves is about 1.5M high. Maynor 1M or .5M high. But nothing sucks.

Mostly they should keep what they have. Just make sure you only do it to good contracts.

[nate33]

We would sign who we want first and get to the cap, then use the MLE if we want.

You can't do that. We would have to first relinquish the MLE in order to get under the cap to have the cap room to sign Monroe. After signing Monroe, we wouldn't then be able to "unrelinquish" the MLE.