John Wall Appreciation Thread - Part III

[Wizardspride]

Whose image is on his shirt? Anybody know?

Producer/rapper/business mogul, Sean Combs.

[CobraCommander]

Whose image is on his shirt? Anybody know?

Producer/rapper/business mogul, Sean Combs.

naw that’s Puffy......

[Wizardspride]

Read on Twitter

?s=20

[CobraCommander]

Read on Twitter

?s=20

Recruiting KL...lol

[prime1time]

'Everybody Eats' is not the key to getting the Wizards to the next level, John Wall is

(These are excerpts. Go here to read the full article: https://www.bulletsforever.com/2018/5/12/17333992/john-wall-washington-wizards-everybody-eats)

Wall is the only All-NBA level talent on this roster. There are players who have elite traits but Wall’s ability to draw the focus of a defense creates scoring opportunities that the rest of the roster simply can’t, no matter how well they move the ball.

Of course, there are still ways Wall can get better. While he should continue to be aggressive looking for his own offense, he can refine his shot selection. He also played too slow at times this year. For a player as fast as he is, there’s no reason he should be near the bottom of the list of starting point guards in average speed. When he walks the ball or stands still off the ball the Wizards become much easier to defend.

John Wall has his flaws, and he may not ever be the best player on a championship team, but neither he or his contract should be the focus of what’s wrong with the Wizards. The team has put him in a position where he has to initiate the offense, initiate the defense, be a team leader, and the unofficial team spokesman as the front office hides in the shadows. It’s not much different from what LeBron James is asked to do every day for the Cavaliers.

The organization needs to do a better job of putting him in a position where he can succeed and in turn they need him to return to the level of play he set for himself in his All-NBA season and ideally improve on his weaknesses. They need that John Wall if they have any aspirations of contention in the Eastern Conference. Don’t let Linsanity…I mean “Everybody Eats” make you forget that.

LOL

While a solid argument, the article misses the forest for the trees. Ask yourselves this, why do the Wizards play one style when Wall is healthy and playing and a completely different style when Wall is injured and on the bench? Why is it that the KD on the Thunder played iso ball and KD on the Warriors plays in a ball movement offense? What is the main determining factor of whether or not a team plays iso ball or ball movement? I'll tell you. It's is whether or not, the star player(s) on the team can be effective off ball or not.

John Wall cannot be effective off ball. This cannot be understated.
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/22182683/zach-lowe-2018-nba-all-star-starters-reserves

Wall is shooting 42 percent, his lowest mark since he was a rookie, and he just hasn't played with enough vigor on either end of the floor. One measure of that: He has spent 76.57 percent of floor time either standing still or walking, the largest such share among all rotation players, according to tracking data from Second Spectrum. Dirk Nowitzki is right behind Wall, and he's almost 40

.

Here's the truth. To beat the Warriors, you need to have star players that can be effective in a ball movement offense. The Warriors blew out the Rockets when the Rockets went iso with Harden and Paul. So inherently any post that says the Wiz need to choose Wall over "Everyone eats" is fundamentally flawed. At this point in his career, we have to come to grips with the fact that Wall will never be an effective off ball player, and thus will never be capable of being effective in a ball movement offense. The Wizards could trade Wall right now for a less talented pg who can play off ball and be part of a ball movement offense, and we would be a better team even though said player is less talented. With teams as talented and balanced as Warriors, Celtics and the Rockets teams operating from the old iso-ball paradigm have no chance.

Here's one example of the problem with iso ball. It inherently devalues and hurts role players. Otto Porter, on a team like the Rockets or the Celtics or the Pelicans would shine. But on the Wiz, he's reduced to a spot up shooter. This is why the Wizards need to trade Wall as soon as possible. His play style is detrimental to winning and he limits other players effectiveness due to his inability to play off ball.

[CobraCommander]

'Everybody Eats' is not the key to getting the Wizards to the next level, John Wall is

(These are excerpts. Go here to read the full article: https://www.bulletsforever.com/2018/5/12/17333992/john-wall-washington-wizards-everybody-eats)

Wall is the only All-NBA level talent on this roster. There are players who have elite traits but Wall’s ability to draw the focus of a defense creates scoring opportunities that the rest of the roster simply can’t, no matter how well they move the ball.

Of course, there are still ways Wall can get better. While he should continue to be aggressive looking for his own offense, he can refine his shot selection. He also played too slow at times this year. For a player as fast as he is, there’s no reason he should be near the bottom of the list of starting point guards in average speed. When he walks the ball or stands still off the ball the Wizards become much easier to defend.

John Wall has his flaws, and he may not ever be the best player on a championship team, but neither he or his contract should be the focus of what’s wrong with the Wizards. The team has put him in a position where he has to initiate the offense, initiate the defense, be a team leader, and the unofficial team spokesman as the front office hides in the shadows. It’s not much different from what LeBron James is asked to do every day for the Cavaliers.

The organization needs to do a better job of putting him in a position where he can succeed and in turn they need him to return to the level of play he set for himself in his All-NBA season and ideally improve on his weaknesses. They need that John Wall if they have any aspirations of contention in the Eastern Conference. Don’t let Linsanity…I mean “Everybody Eats” make you forget that.

LOL

While a solid argument, the article misses the forest for the trees. Ask yourselves this, why do the Wizards play one style when Wall is healthy and playing and a completely different style when Wall is injured and on the bench? Why is it that the KD on the Thunder played iso ball and KD on the Warriors plays in a ball movement offense? What is the main determining factor of whether or not a team plays iso ball or ball movement? I'll tell you. It's is whether or not, the star player(s) on the team can be effective off ball or not.

John Wall cannot be effective off ball. This cannot be understated.
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/22182683/zach-lowe-2018-nba-all-star-starters-reserves

Wall is shooting 42 percent, his lowest mark since he was a rookie, and he just hasn't played with enough vigor on either end of the floor. One measure of that: He has spent 76.57 percent of floor time either standing still or walking, the largest such share among all rotation players, according to tracking data from Second Spectrum. Dirk Nowitzki is right behind Wall, and he's almost 40

.

Here's the truth. To beat the Warriors, you need to have star players that can be effective in a ball movement offense. The Warriors blew out the Rockets when the Rockets went iso with Harden and Paul. So inherently any post that says the Wiz need to choose Wall over "Everyone eats" is fundamentally flawed. At this point in his career, we have to come to grips with the fact that Wall will never be an effective off ball player, and thus will never be capable of being effective in a ball movement offense. The Wizards could trade Wall right now for a less talented pg who can play off ball and be part of a ball movement offense, and we would be a better team even though said player is less talented. With teams as talented and balanced as Warriors, Celtics and the Rockets teams operating from the old iso-ball paradigm have no chance.

Here's one example of the problem with iso ball. It inherently devalues and hurts role players. Otto Porter, on a team like the Rockets or the Celtics or the Pelicans would shine. But on the Wiz, he's reduced to a spot up shooter. This is why the Wizards need to trade Wall as soon as possible. His play style is detrimental to winning and he limits other players effectiveness due to his inability to play off ball.

Wow you had me right up until the point when i realized you don’t watch basketball... when did that happen you ask? When you mentioned the Warriors, Durant, Houston AND iso ball.

Here are the points that you missed or just misunderstood-

Durant is a ISO player naturally. Since he was in 7th grade the guy was able to get his shot off on anyone in ISO. As he has gotten better his iso ball abilities have gotten better and when he came into the league at 7’ and played in sunny Seattle and OKC he played ISO with him and westbrook being UNCOACHED and playing ISO to the teams detriment. Durant went ISO in this playoff run and the Warriors simply overcame because CP3 got hurt, Kerr called Durant for being selfish on national TV and told some story about Jordan trusting his teammates and JR Smith is high right now and high at all times on the basketball court...PLUS Curry, Iggy, Klay...fire power...unlimited firepower.

Houston has the MVP in harden that plays in Dantoni’s offense that has A. Never won a ring and B. Produced Nash as a MVP...its a stat rich and exciting concept that makes players look great but hasn’t yielded anything but MVP Nash, MVP Harden and Linsanity....

Wall aint the wizards problem OR solution. The problem starts with the GM and goes to the coach ....problems 1A and problem 1B. The GM has traded away picks and got nothing in return. Signed players late and ate up cap space and HAS not surrounded John and Brad with mentors - older players that can help manage the lockerroom.
The coach hasn’t played players when they could have had a chance to learn (see Sato and last years playoffs) so that they would be ready for the moment (compared to Toronto and Boston). Thus our best bench player this playoffs was playing in CHINA last year...HOW THe F does that HAPPEN with all the scouting going on in the NBA!?!?! Sato wasn’t ready for the speed of the game...because he didnt get a chance to play in it last year...thus...he was not very good this year in the playoffs...and thats not his fault.

But back to Wall...Wall aint gonna save this team. He isn’t that good...there are only a smalllllll handful of guys that can overcome bad coaching and a SUCKY roster and get their teams to the finals...and when i say Handful I mean LEBRON JAMES...Wall aint Lebron.

All those people talking about break up the wiz should be saying break up the trailblazers, Toronto, OKC, etc...good talent aint crap without coaching in the NBA when the GSW have overwhelming talent, decent coaching, Cleveland has Lebron, Boston has talent, Coaching and a great GM, Spurs have a great Coach, 76ers have up and coming extremely high talent and Toronto has our exact team but with a better bench and hell maybe had a better coach.

To get this team better- the coach and the GM need to figure out how to maximize the talent they got instead of trying to play “off the ball”- “high pick and roll”- “8 seconds or less”- “ball movement”- “triangle offense”....none of it matters if you are not matching players with good coaching. The wiz dont have the talent to “out talent” anyone...and trading Wall or Beal wont get them the talent needed in return to do that next year or the year after...like give us KL for Wall and we still aint winning the east next year fellas...especially if Lebron still in the east...and we sure as hell ain’t winning a ring with this squad and ANY ONE PLAYER added to the squad...even if it was LEBRON! So in other words...we more than ONE piece away. I’m saying John, Brad, Otto, Lebron and Gortat as our starting 5 just gets swept or wins 1 or 2 games with the Warriors...especially if the coach continues to just ROLL THE BALL OUT AND ASK THE PLAYERS...”what we doing today guys?” The wizards are NOT coached...with a bad GM that wouldn’t fire the coach to get us someone that lays into or benches Wall or Beal when they play poorly...not because their shot isnt falling ...but because they are playing unintelligently...Wall and Beal get away with being closer to Swaggy P and JR smith than they are to Lebron...i.e. making the right play at the right time...and they are too smart and too good for that. THAT IS ALL ON THE COACH...and the fact that there is NO ONE to sub in for John and Brad when they are doing DUMB SH.....is on the GM. The fact that our best player is a poor shooter and our second best player cant dribble...is a problem with coaching too. Because the coach puts John and Brad in positions where their weaknesses are existential on FULLL DISPLAY to be exposed...remember that Toronto Benched their best player for PLAYING poorly...and they beat us...soundly...

Sorry to rant...but we have a little talent on this roster...but we dont have enough...we have NO coaching on this roster...and we will need more to compete. The coach needs to figure out how to get the most out of Wall, Beal and Otto....the time of Otto being a 3rd wheel has ended...is Otto’s future to be the Max salary version of Trevor Ariza or will the COACH get more out of this extremely efficent player....thats not completely on Otto...man i could go on...but you get the point. The finals was a referendum on all the GMs and Coaches in the league...you gottta have talent, basketball IQ and great coaching if you want a chance at the ring...we aint got enough of any of those things....but that aint Walls fault.

[NatP4]

Right now, they have 4 good players and a bad coach and bad GM.

In the future, Walls contract will become the issue though.

[CobraCommander]

Right now, they have 4 good players and a bad coach and bad GM.

In the future, Walls contract will become the issue though.

In the future Walls, Beals and OTTOs contract will be an issue...but especially Walls. A dude whos skills are predicated on his physical gifts wont age into his Super Max contract gracefully...

[queridiculo]

I thought this was the John Wall appreciation thread for a minute..

[payitforward]

The GM has traded away picks and got nothing in return. Signed players late and ate up cap space and HAS not surrounded John and Brad with mentors - older players that can help manage the locker room.

...our best bench player this playoffs was playing in CHINA last year...HOW THe F does that HAPPEN

Wall aint gonna save this team. He isn’t that good...there are only a smalllllll handful of guys that can overcome bad coaching and a SUCKY roster and get their teams to the finals...and when i say Handful I mean LEBRON JAMES...Wall aint Lebron.

Boston has talent, Coaching and a great GM, Spurs have a great Coach, 76ers have up and coming extremely high talent and Toronto has our exact team but with a better bench and hell maybe had a better coach.

...The wiz dont have the talent to “out talent” anyone...and ...we ... ain’t winning a ring with this squad and ANY ONE PLAYER added to the squad...

I’m saying John, Brad, Otto, Lebron and Gortat as our starting 5 just gets swept or wins 1 or 2 games with the Warriors...

...and the fact that there is NO ONE to sub in for John and Brad when they are doing DUMB SH.....is on the GM.

The fact that our best player is a poor shooter and our second best player cant dribble...is a problem with coaching too.

...the coach puts John and Brad in positions where their weaknesses are existential on FULLL DISPLAY to be exposed...remember that Toronto Benched their best player for PLAYING poorly...and they beat us...soundly...

Sorry to rant...but we have a little talent on this roster...but we dont have enough...

...you gottta have talent, basketball IQ and great coaching if you want a chance at the ring...we aint got enough of any of those things....but that aint Walls fault.

Go Cobra!!

What responsibility falls on the coach once the roster is so limited is an open question, but there is no question that Brooks hasn't *added* much value.

But what I appreciate most about this post is the demonstration that you can think well of John Wall, you can think he is a heck of a player, without thinking that he is a super-star. It's not some kind of disloyalty to point out where his limitations are.

OTOH, if the problem is to surround John, Otto & Brad with better players, then the next thing to look at is our salary structure: if it is simply impossible to add those players at their full-value NBA salaries, then you MUST take full advantage of the draft, which Ernie obviously has not done. Consider the following:

1. After taking Wall in 2010, the Wizards made 2 more R1 picks.
2. We made 3 picks in 2011, a high lottery pick, a mid-R1 pick, & a high R2 pick.

That's 5 significant assets. We got nothing whatever from them. We didn't add to our core, & we didn't make use of any of those players in a trade that added anything to our team. & then...

3. Since taking Porter #3 in 2013, we have had 9 draft picks -- 4 R1 picks (including a lottery pick) & 5 R2 picks.

From that significant set of resources, we have exactly 1 player -- Kelly Oubre -- the rest were straight out squandered (w/ the exception of the R2 pick used to get to where we could take Oubre), & the count isn't complete, because at least 1 future R2 draft pick (maybe 2?) is also gone.

So the article is correct: John isn't the problem. The problem is that it's hard to see how John could be part of the solution! That's not his fault, but all the same it's the truth -- an unpleasant truth.

[Dark Faze]

We're about to be so significantly out talented that our hand probably gets forced soon.

[CobraCommander]

I thought this was the John Wall appreciation thread for a minute..

Oh it is...we love our guy...we just realistic

[Ruzious]

We're about to be so significantly out talented that our hand probably gets forced soon.

Otoh, Lebron's almost single-handedly kept the Eastern Conference afloat the last few years, and he could be moving to the West.

[tontoz]

Wall's flaws are problematic, but his contact could end up being a good thing.

EG's blunders haven't been enough to get him fired, but going forward Ted might get tired of paying so much in salaries for a team that isn't close to contending.

[NatP4]

We're about to be so significantly out talented that our hand probably gets forced soon.

Otoh, Lebron's almost single-handedly kept the Eastern Conference afloat the last few years, and he could be moving to the West.

He’s going to Philly IMO. Unless rockets extend Capela his QO.....hmmm interesting.

I guess all they have to do is dump Ryan Anderson using their 2019 1st on some team.

[Dat2U]

We're about to be so significantly out talented that our hand probably gets forced soon.

Otoh, Lebron's almost single-handedly kept the Eastern Conference afloat the last few years, and he could be moving to the West.

He’s going to Philly IMO. Unless rockets extend Capela his QO.....hmmm interesting.

I guess all they have to do is dump Ryan Anderson using their 2019 1st on some team.

Simmons needs the ball in his hands to be effective, even moreso b/c of his inability to score outside the paint. It would not work.

[Dark Faze]

Otoh, Lebron's almost single-handedly kept the Eastern Conference afloat the last few years, and he could be moving to the West.

He’s going to Philly IMO. Unless rockets extend Capela his QO.....hmmm interesting.

I guess all they have to do is dump Ryan Anderson using their 2019 1st on some team.

Simmons needs the ball in his hands to be effective, even moreso b/c of his inability to score outside the paint. It would not work.

LeBron has said he's tired of needing to be so ball dominant. He's cried about playmakers for a few years now.

I'm thinking LeBron goes to LA now though. They have a lot of pieces in which a super team could be made.

[pcbothwel]

Training in Miami with same guy who re-vamped Oladipo last year (And now Austin Rivers... Guess we know Wall was on board with the trade)
... supposedly well regarded in the PT community

[Dark Faze]

get otto in there

[80sballboy]

get otto in there

He's in St. Louis working on his cars.