Political Roundtable Part XXII

[dobrojim]

Purely from a perspective of optics, one wonders how the designated hitter
for the GOP senators ended up bearing an okay, arguably superficial resemblance
to Delores Umbridge.

[Jamaaliver]

Unbelievable truth and courage by this Columbia professor on Morning Joe regarding Syria. MSNBC usually silences people like this guy, so it was surprising to see this.

Read on Twitter

The problem is that the current Syrian Government are also terrorists. They've bombed, gassed, murdered their own citizens for over a decade.

Using terms like liberated are...complicated.

[Pointgod]

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?s=19

Somewhere TGW's head just exploded.

Lol....but yeah. Eww. Can't she just retire peacefully

Yes Hillary Clinton is a lightening rod but I'd argue it really doesn't matter. Republicans aren't going to vote for a Democrat regardless but remember the rest of the Democratic party aren't all progressives, I'd argue that's even more true in Florida. If she can turn out to the moderate /centrist Democrats how ever you want to call them, that combined with the new Democratic voters that turned up for Gillam in the primary can hopefully propel Democrats to major victories in Florida. This also has an effect for Senate races like Bill Nelson and other races on congress. If Democrat voters consistently turned out in elections they'd consistently kick Republicans asses. There's always a bigger picture which is why the infighting within the party is so stupid.

[dckingsfan]

Unbelievable truth and courage by this Columbia professor on Morning Joe regarding Syria. MSNBC usually silences people like this guy, so it was surprising to see this.

Read on Twitter

The problem is that the current Syrian Government are also terrorists. They've bombed, gassed, murdered their own citizens for over a decade.

Using terms like liberated are...complicated.

His analysis is at best superficial. But, difficult to really get into the meat of the issue on a talk show.

[TGW]

Unbelievable truth and courage by this Columbia professor on Morning Joe regarding Syria. MSNBC usually silences people like this guy, so it was surprising to see this.

Read on Twitter

The problem is that the current Syrian Government are also terrorists. They've bombed, gassed, murdered their own citizens for over a decade.

Using terms like liberated are...complicated.

That's absolutely NOT NOT NOT true. The Syrian government never gassed their own people...that is simply CIA propaganda in order to invade their country. Both the Syrian and Russian government asked for independent investigations by the UN council in those supposed gas attacks, and that request was denied. Not only that, Assad has absolutely no reason to gas his own people. SYRIA IS WINNING THE WAR AGAINST AL NUSERRA (aka AL QUAIDA). The Western forces, along with Israel, are supporting and funding them; however, because the terrorists are losing, the Western forces are trying to make up anything to justify a false flag attack on Syria.

The REALITY is that Israel and certain Western countries want to build a pipeline through Syria. The Syrian government said no. That is it. Obama and now Trump don't give a rats behind about the Syrian people. The information coming out of Washington regarding Syria is a joke, and our fake news media reports it without challenging it whatsoever.

[Jamaaliver]

That's absolutely NOT NOT NOT true. The Syrian government never gassed their own people...that is simply CIA propaganda in order to invade their country.

The information coming out of Washington regarding Syria is a joke, and our fake news media reports it without challenging it whatsoever.

What makes you think I'm listening to anything coming out Washington?

War crimes evidence in Syria 'overwhelming', not all can be pursued: U.N.

War crimes investigators and activists have amassed an “overwhelming volume” of testimony, images and videos documenting atrocities committed by all sides during Syria’s war, a U.N. quasi-prosecutorial body said in its first report.

The team, led by former French judge Catherine Marchi-Uhel, said it is preparing case files and has engaged with war crimes investigative units of various states including in Europe, whose courts can exercise universal jurisdiction to prosecute.

In the future, an existing body - such as the International Criminal Court - or a new court could be given jurisdiction for Syria, according to the report.

The team expects to finaliZe an agreement soon with the Commission of Inquiry (COI) on Syria on getting access to testimony and evidence collected by that separate team of U.N. investigators for the past six years, the report said.

“The volume of videos and other images - as well as the role played by social media - is unprecedented in any other accountability process with respect to international crimes to date,” said the report by Marchi-Uhel’s team.

Investigators were also seeking to obtain information on the use of chemical weapons in Syria from the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons.

A COI report on March 15 said Syrian government forces and allied militias had raped and sexually assaulted women, girls and men in a campaign to punish opposition communities - acts that constitute war crimes and crimes against humanity.

Led by Paulo Pinheiro, the COI has accused Syrian government forces of committing war crimes and potentially crimes against humanity, including mass executions, and some opposition groups of international crimes such as murder and torture.

Marchi-Uhel’s team said its work would proceed independently of any Syrian peace process and be based on the principle that no amnesty can be granted for “core international crimes”.

Reuters

[I_Like_Dirt]

I don't actually know what happened in Syria at any given point, but people absolutely were gassed and it's pretty clear to me that everyone involved there has their hands dirty. I don't actually see any good options. I'm not particularly sure that taking Russia's word for it is a great idea. I mean, we're talking about the same Russia who obviously gassed people on British soil then flat out denied it on all fronts and turned around and claimed they had evidence that the British staged gas attacks in Syria to make it look like Assad did them. This isn't to say that the UK is necessarily believable or that anyone particularly party is innocent or guilty, but Russia clearly doesn't give any Fs whatsoever. They do what gets the closest to what they want, and given their status on the UN Security Council, there would have been a LOT of politics at play for those particular negotiations.

[Jamaaliver]

That's absolutely NOT NOT NOT true. The Syrian government never gassed their own people...that is simply CIA propaganda in order to invade their country.

The information coming out of Washington regarding Syria is a joke, and our fake news media reports it without challenging it whatsoever.

Ummm...

Syria war: War crimes committed in Eastern Ghouta battle - UN

Syrian pro-government forces committed a crime against humanity and war crimes during their siege of the Eastern Ghouta region, UN investigators say.

A new report says troops caused serious mental and physical suffering to the rebel enclave's residents by bombarding their homes and denying them food.

They also allegedly attacked protected objects like hospitals deliberately.

Rebel forces are accused of committing a war crime by indiscriminately shelling civilians in nearby Damascus.

But the investigators are still looking into whether chemical weapons were used in an attack in April on what was then the last rebel town in the Eastern Ghouta.

They said the evidence pointed to the use of chlorine in Douma, but that some people had exhibited symptoms more consistent with exposure to a nerve agent.

The US, UK and France have said they are confident the government used chemical weapons but it has accused them of "staging" the incident.

Liberated, huh?

The five-year siege of the Eastern Ghouta was the longest in modern history.

It came to an end in April, after a two-month offensive by pro-government forces, backed by Russian air strikes, that decimated homes, markets, and hospitals and reportedly left more than 1,700 men, women and children dead.

[Pointgod]

Unbelievable truth and courage by this Columbia professor on Morning Joe regarding Syria. MSNBC usually silences people like this guy, so it was surprising to see this.

Read on Twitter

The problem is that the current Syrian Government are also terrorists. They've bombed, gassed, murdered their own citizens for over a decade.

Using terms like liberated are...complicated.

That's absolutely NOT NOT NOT true. The Syrian government never gassed their own people...that is simply CIA propaganda in order to invade their country. Both the Syrian and Russian government asked for independent investigations by the UN council in those supposed gas attacks, and that request was denied. Not only that, Assad has absolutely no reason to gas his own people. SYRIA IS WINNING THE WAR AGAINST AL NUSERRA (aka AL QUAIDA). The Western forces, along with Israel, are supporting and funding them; however, because the terrorists are losing, the Western forces are trying to make up anything to justify a false flag attack on Syria.

The REALITY is that Israel and certain Western countries want to build a pipeline through Syria. The Syrian government said no. That is it. Obama and now Trump don't give a rats behind about the Syrian people. The information coming out of Washington regarding Syria is a joke, and our fake news media reports it without challenging it whatsoever.

Wow we've finally found it. The lefts version of Qanon and crazy conspiracy theorists. Multiple sources, including ones on the ground, have cooperated Assads forces killing civilians. You're absolutely insane if you don't think Assad would kill his own people. WTF is wrong with you?

[TGW]

The problem is that the current Syrian Government are also terrorists. They've bombed, gassed, murdered their own citizens for over a decade.

Using terms like liberated are...complicated.

That's absolutely NOT NOT NOT true. The Syrian government never gassed their own people...that is simply CIA propaganda in order to invade their country. Both the Syrian and Russian government asked for independent investigations by the UN council in those supposed gas attacks, and that request was denied. Not only that, Assad has absolutely no reason to gas his own people. SYRIA IS WINNING THE WAR AGAINST AL NUSERRA (aka AL QUAIDA). The Western forces, along with Israel, are supporting and funding them; however, because the terrorists are losing, the Western forces are trying to make up anything to justify a false flag attack on Syria.

The REALITY is that Israel and certain Western countries want to build a pipeline through Syria. The Syrian government said no. That is it. Obama and now Trump don't give a rats behind about the Syrian people. The information coming out of Washington regarding Syria is a joke, and our fake news media reports it without challenging it whatsoever.

Wow we've finally found it. The lefts version of Qanon and crazy conspiracy theorists. Multiple sources, including ones on the ground, have cooperated Assads forces killing civilians. You're absolutely insane if you don't think Assad would kill his own people. WTF is wrong with you?

Name the sources, pointgod. Show me the evidence from an official source that says conclusively that ASSAD used chemical weapons.

If anyone used chemical weapons, it was the F*CKING TERRORISTS. Al EFFING QUAIDA. Your brain is warped from watching CNN.

[TGW]

https://www.newsweek.com/wheres-evidence-assad-used-sarin-gas-his-people-810123

The best way to analyze chemical weapons events in Syria is to try to discern who is providing evidence, why they are presenting evidence and what that evidence comprises.

Since the United States’ false Weapons of Mass Destruction (WMD) presentation in the U.N. Security Council led to an illegal, unjustified war in Iraq, it is only prudent to question the motivations of people accusing others of WMD war crimes and demanding regime change based on these allegations.

Secretary of Defense James Mattis made it very clear recently that “aid groups and others” had provided the U.S. with evidence that was insufficient to conclude that President Bashar Assad had recently used the chemical weapon Sarin against Syrian civilians. In other words, the Pentagon does not believe what has been presented to it as evidence, chiefly because of the dubious provenance of the providers.

The importance of the evidence source is critical in Syria because the jihadis arrayed against Assad ascribe to a doctrine of deception called taqiyya. Taqiyya fully supports and condones behavior such as chemical weapons “false flags” to gain advantage against infidel enemies on the ground.

[dckingsfan]

Sigh... somehow Assad is the one being persecuted. This narrative is so off...

It is a complicated issue with many players but Assad is definitely one of the bad guys - of which there are many in Syria.

[TGW]

Sigh... somehow Assad is the one being persecuted. This narrative is so off...

It is a complicated issue with many players but Assad is definitely one of the bad guys - of which there are many in Syria.

Bro, there's no good guys in this situation. Saddam Hussein was not a good guy. Khaddafi was not a good guy. Rohani is not a good guy. Many of these leaders in the middle east are not good guys. THATS NOT THE POINT. The point is that the United States continue to nation-build and destablize the middle east using OUR TAXPAYER MONEY. That includes giving terrorist rebels, whether it be Al Quaida, ISIS, or whoever, money and weapons, that of course they turn back and use on American citizens and our troops. All of it to put money in someone's pocket.

So amuse me...name one reason that Assad has to gas his own people? It's completely nonsensical to do something like that. So explain that to me.

[Kanyewest]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/oct/26/syria-gas-attack-bashar-al-assad-un-tillerson

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/04/13/602375500/history-of-u-s-responses-to-chemical-weapons-attacks-in-syria

[Jamaaliver]

So amuse me...name one reason that Assad has to gas his own people? It's completely nonsensical to do something like that. So explain that to me.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/oct/26/syria-gas-attack-bashar-al-assad-un-tillerson

For the same reason he has to bomb, murder and rape his own citizens...He's a dictator who'll do anything to hold onto power.

Any reasonable leader who actually cared about his people would have stepped down years ago to end this senseless war and secure outside assistance in fighting the....terrorists plaguing his country.

[Wizardspride]

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[Wizardspride]

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[dckingsfan]

Sigh... somehow Assad is the one being persecuted. This narrative is so off...

It is a complicated issue with many players but Assad is definitely one of the bad guys - of which there are many in Syria.

Bro, there's no good guys in this situation. Saddam Hussein was not a good guy. Khaddafi was not a good guy. Rohani is not a good guy. Many of these leaders in the middle east are not good guys. THATS NOT THE POINT. The point is that the United States continue to nation-build and destablize the middle east using OUR TAXPAYER MONEY. That includes giving terrorist rebels, whether it be Al Quaida, ISIS, or whoever, money and weapons, that of course they turn back and use on American citizens and our troops. All of it to put money in someone's pocket.

So amuse me...name one reason that Assad has to gas his own people? It's completely nonsensical to do something like that. So explain that to me.

You are trying to pull the irrational into the rational. Assad is not a rational individual. You do also realize that we engaged with Syria when we almost lost Iraq?

[pancakes3]

you're conflating the collusion with meddling, because you're dumb.

here this is a really simple concept.

let's pretend that i am putin. and i want to help trump win. And let's pretend that russia produces 2 things that the united states consumes. steel toe boots and yoga mats. The USA can only get these products from russia. and I invoke a 1500% surcharge on yoga mats. the $8 yoga mats now cost $160.00 and we lower the cost of steel toe shoes in half. So farmers, construction workers, cops, fireman and other factory workers can now buy boots for $25 that used to coast $50-100.00

If i'm putin and i did that after i made a trade deal with trump would i be harming 1 political party over another? Ya think? Is that meddling? Is that collusion? Am i not targeting the base of one political party over another?? hurting one base and helping another??

conversely, if i am mad at trump. and dont want him to win. and I'm chairman Xi of china, and i place tariffs on all products out of wisonsin, michigan, ohio and pennsylvania, to harm those economies. To lower productions and kill off jobs and pressure corps of those goods to lay off workers and pay lower wages...am i meddling in the election? Am i colluding with the opposition party to oust trump???

Am I? I mean come on! Be consistent here! the left told us for 2 years how trump was putin's puppet and going to give sweetheart trade deal to russia in exchange for personal help (getting elected or cash n financing directly to trump himself. You guys told us that was both meddling in our elections and collusion!!!

so Now..as it turns out...china is trying to hurt trump politcallly by hurting his base where it counts. their pocket books. which also means by hurting trump, china is helping whoever runs against trump!! Is China now colluding with the DNC and whoever runs against trump...to get better trade deals for china!!!?? <--that is really simple logic to follow. no rocket science here. and I'm not conflating nor confusing anything. You are!!

SO is china meddling??? Still no you say !!!??? Seriously?? how can we take you serious? You are either too stupid to see what is happening here or playing stupid to convince other stupid people to believe your stupid lack of explanation. any person with a brain cell sees all of these political movements as one in the same: meddling!!

i don't know how else to respond to you than how i've already responded, explaining why the Russian dissemination of misinformation is worse. much worse.

just remember, it takes two to collude, and i bolded in above, the saying is "one and the same."

stick to cleaning teeth, bro.

[pancakes3]

So amuse me...name one reason that Assad has to gas his own people? It's completely nonsensical to do something like that. So explain that to me.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/oct/26/syria-gas-attack-bashar-al-assad-un-tillerson

For the same reason he has to bomb, murder and rape his own citizens...He's a dictator who'll do anything to hold onto power.

Any reasonable leader who actually cared about his people would have stepped down years ago to end this senseless war and secure outside assistance in fighting the....terrorists plaguing his country.

like, it's not like Assad just decided to gas his citizens, and then they had a civil war.

Assad was/is a dictator, was losing a 3-way civil war, desperate, and had/has Russian backing even if he did use chemical weapons.

The only real deterrent other than moral sensibilities, was Western retaliation.