Official Trade Thread XVII: 6/29/11 - 1/20 /12

[llcc25]

McGee and legit center in same sentence at this point is laughable. saying that on any other team he would be viewed as an untouchable even moreso. lol.

First off, please don't fall in love with his stats. Yes he had that 25pt/18 rb game which they lost. But if you watched his last game, his post defense was horrendous. Out of position so many times the Houston front court had easy shots all night which was the reason FLip had to sit him in 4th quarter. So he is far from legit. Samuel Dalembert has played the Center position better this year and I'd do that trade in heartbeat as its so much better value. McGee is not worth the price its gonna take to resign him. No need to overpay again for a player. And Nicolas Batum is not a SF prospect. lol...do some research.

[jivelikenice]

McGee and legit center in same sentence at this point is laughable. saying that on any other team he would be viewed as an untouchable even moreso. lol.

First off, please don't fall in love with his stats. Yes he had that 25pt/18 rb game which they lost. But if you watched his last game, his post defense was horrendous. Out of position so many times the Houston front court had easy shots all night which was the reason FLip had to sit him in 4th quarter. So he is far from legit. Samuel Dalembert has played the Center position better this year and I'd do that trade in heartbeat as its so much better value. McGee is not worth the price its gonna take to resign him. No need to overpay again for a player. And Nicolas Batum is not a SF prospect. lol...do some research.

Well, I never called Batum a SF prospect (if you read more carefully i was referring to Singleton, your throw in to the deal).

I'm not look only at stats for McGee but they're part of the equation. Its not like his stats are inflated because he's getting a high volume of shots. He's averaging a double-double, shooting +50%, and leading the league in blocks. You could argue his rebounding and shot blocking might be even better if he was on a team that played sound defense around him.

But you have to look at that in addition to him being a true center. They just are a rare commodity and have high value. Look at Lopez. I don't think he's anything special but apparently that's good enough to be considered the centerpiece in a Dwight Howard deal because of the position he plays. And how many centers are actually better than Mcgee....I can think of the following:

1. Howard
2. Bynum
3. Bogut
4. M. Gasol
5. Nene
6. Chandler

Is there anyone else you can say is clearly better than McGee

[llcc25]

btw- Samuel Dalembert was efficient 14 pts and 12 rebounds vs Detroit tonight in win. They were + 22 with him on court. And he held Monroe to 4 pts. Once McGee can play both offense and defense efficiently like Dalembert this year, then I'll call him legit...Again my point is McGee has a ways to go before we anoint him a legit Center.

[jivelikenice]

He's not a star, but he's legit.....If you don't agree can you at least give me an idea of who the legit centers are?

But back to the original point, I'd never deal him for a Batum, especially considering Batum will be requiring an extension as well. Why create a hole at center to fill the SF position. We'd be creating a hole that's much more difficult to fill.

[hands11]

I tossed up some of the Ridnour-to-WAS ideas up on the Wolves Board.

viewtopic.php?f=22&t=1153368

You might want to wait a couple days to make offers though. Ridnour had the game of his life last night (25 points, 10-14, 4 three's, 9 assists), so posters may over-value him right now.

You do realize posters don't actually make trades, right.

One angle is to suggest trades you would like to see. The other is predicting what the team will actually do. It doesn't matter what posters on another thread say unless they can add some insite into who they are shopping or something about how good they are kind of stuff.

As for Cleveland rebounding faster. Well they had a team not to long ago that had the best record in the league. They didnt have the culture rebuild the Wizards needed. Then they went right to the bottom and lucked out having Kyrie available at #1 and another high pick. They already had winners on the team. Very different situation then Washington. And they got lucky. First they got LeBron, then Kyrie.

Washington will get there. It is just going to take a little longer. They will add players soon. Likely not till this summer after they get another high draft pick as an asset. For all the time I have read people warning about not getting to good to quick, how are so many forgetting that approach.

Yeah, losing sucks right now. But it wont last forever. Now it the time to just enjoy evaluating watching players make progress so they are worth more hear or worth more in a trade.

[llcc25]

Horford, Okafor, Jefferson, Noah, Hibbert, Monroe, Lopez, Dalembert ...I'd take all the above over McGee... If you soley focus on stats, you may not be convinced but imo they are better Centers at this point. McGee has more athleticism than most and upside IF he develops his defensive postioning and post play, but until then, he's a notch below those guys in my book.

[jivelikenice]

Comments on a couple of the guys

I don't consider Horford a true Center. He doesn't consider himself one and his father was pleading for the Hawks to move him back to PF.

Okafor is playing statistically worse on a bad team. He's a name, not a better center IMO

Jefferson- He's an interesting name. Statistically he's better than Mcgee. That being said, there's a reason he's on the block and might be on his way to his 4th team. He's not a great shot blocker, an average rebounder, and poor defensive player. I can't see him ever being a starting center on a deep playoff team. McGee could become that with the right cast around him and good coaching

Noah is more of a PF but I'll say he's better

Hibbert_ I know he's playing well this season but I haven't seen too much of him so I can't comment

Lopez- overrated....horrible rebounder. If he was on the Wizards we would be equally bad and people on the board would be complaining about how horrible he is.

[shrink]

I tossed up some of the Ridnour-to-WAS ideas up on the Wolves Board.

viewtopic.php?f=22&t=1153368

You might want to wait a couple days to make offers though. Ridnour had the game of his life last night (25 points, 10-14, 4 three's, 9 assists), so posters may over-value him right now.

You do realize posters don't actually make trades, right.

One angle is to suggest trades you would like to see. The other is predicting what the team will actually do. It doesn't matter what posters on another thread say unless they can add some insite into who they are shopping or something about how good they are kind of stuff.

Thanks for clearing that up for me! I'm new around here, and I thought I was actually trading you Luke Ridnour!

What I'm saying is that after Ridnour's best game of his life, it's likely you may get som biased opinions that would hinder a truer discussion of his value on these boards.

[montestewart]

Wait a minute! Are you saying we're not real GMs?

Crap! No wonder those women were laughing at me.

[llcc25]

Based on the good likelihood that we're letting Nic Young walk, and Javale Mcgee will cost $10m+ /year, so we may also lose him to a higher bidder, does it make sense to at least consider a trade of Nic Young, Javale, Blatche, Singleton or Vesely for Scola and Dalembert.

For Houston, it gives them cap flexiblity this summer as it gets Scola's 9.4m, 10.2m, and 11m contract for next 3 years off the books. And Samuel Dalembert's player option 6.7m for next year. They also get Blatche' and Singleton or Vesely.

For Wiz, we get rid of Blatche and let go of McGee and Young, who we were likely going to let go at end of season anyways. And in return, we get an upgrade at center at less of a future cap hit, a established PF who know how to play the post offensive and defense.

This allows us to draft Anthony Davis this summer and bring him along under Scola's mentorship vs Blatche. And we still have cap room to go hard after eric gordon or harden. Also, we can then amnest Lewis and possibly go after another SF like Batum or Chandler

Our lineup next year:
PG-Wall, Mack
SG-Gordon or Harden
SF-Batum/Vesely or Singleton,
PF-Scola/Davis/Booker
C-Dalembert/Seraphin

[TGW]

^^^That is not a good trade. It doesn't accomplish anything for the Wizards, other than getting older. Sure, they might be somewhat better, and squeek in the playoffs as an 8th seed, but a trade like that will guarantee mediocrity for the next 5 years.

[llcc25]

^^^That is not a good trade. It doesn't accomplish anything for the Wizards, other than getting older. Sure, they might be somewhat better, and squeek in the playoffs as an 8th seed, but a trade like that will guarantee mediocrity for the next 5 years.

I disagree. OKC only got better in Durant's year 3 after adding some veterans to play alongside Durant, Westbrook and Green.

You can't just expect to go from lottery team to contending overnight. We have to build a foundation and culture and mix in the right veteran players to play alongside your young stars.
Short term, it gets us immediately better at 2 post positions which we are losing the battle almost every night (Center and PF). We also rid ourselves of 2 headaches in Blatche and McGee. We still maintain cap flexibility. Scola will come off books in year 3 of Anthony Davis, at which point our hope is that he is everything people project him to be. Long term our big 2 of Wall, Gordon/Harden, and Davis, if everything progresses, can make us a contender...

[TGW]

I disagree that we are losing at the center spot every night...that is a gross exaggeration, and actually incorrect. According to 82games.com, McGee wins his match-up from a production standpoint (+1.4). He's a player you can build around. Plain and simple, he's not the problem, and giving away a player that young and talented is short-sighted.

You also need to realize that your plan is dependent on a) getting Harden, b) getting Davis or c) getting Batum, which are stretches to say the least. You can't build a team with the hopes of getting those types of players because more than likely, they will resign with their current teams. In Davis' case, we could end up with pick #5 again, and that plan goes out the window.

I understand moving Blatche and Young because neither one are players that are worth moving forward with, but McGee should NOT be moved unless we are getting clear upgrades who are young. Dalembert is neither young nor an upgrade. Scola is a good player, but he's older and not worth much to a rebuilding team.

[Nivek]

I disagree that we are losing at the center spot every night...that is a gross exaggeration, and actually incorrect. According to 82games.com, McGee wins his match-up from a production standpoint (+1.4). He's a player you can build around. Plain and simple, he's not the problem, and giving away a player that young and talented is short-sighted.

Actually, "losing at the center spot" is accurate. The numbers at 82games haven't been updated since January 13, and their matchup stats (which are problematic for a variety of reasons that I won't go into here -- I've written about those numbers elsewhere) show McGee losing in PER by 1.2. If you look at the "Production by Position" data at 82games (again, not updated since January 13), you'll see the Wizards lose at every position (as measured by PER), including center (-2.1).

And, there's ample evidence to suggest that McGee has been part of the problem, rebounding and blocks notwithstanding. I've posted some detail in another thread, but here's the summary:

- inefficient offense
- worst man defender on the team, according to Synergy data
- incredibly awful on/off numbers -- both ends of the floor

If he hasn't been part of the problem, he also hasn't been part of the solution. Pump the brakes with McGee. Let's see what shakes out with him over the season. I've seen stuff that encourages me, but I see lots of other stuff that suggests he still has a long ways to go.

[LyricalRico]

You can't just expect to go from lottery team to contending overnight. We have to build a foundation and culture and mix in the right veteran players to play alongside your young stars.
Short term, it gets us immediately better at 2 post positions which we are losing the battle almost every night (Center and PF). We also rid ourselves of 2 headaches in Blatche and McGee. We still maintain cap flexibility. Scola will come off books in year 3 of Anthony Davis, at which point our hope is that he is everything people project him to be. Long term our big 2 of Wall, Gordon/Harden, and Davis, if everything progresses, can make us a contender...

This.



Couldn't have said it better. Maybe we could tweak the actual trade a bit, but this is EXACTLY the type of plan the Wiz should be pursuing.

[TGW]

I disagree that we are losing at the center spot every night...that is a gross exaggeration, and actually incorrect. According to 82games.com, McGee wins his match-up from a production standpoint (+1.4). He's a player you can build around. Plain and simple, he's not the problem, and giving away a player that young and talented is short-sighted.

Actually, "losing at the center spot" is accurate. The numbers at 82games haven't been updated since January 13, and their matchup stats (which are problematic for a variety of reasons that I won't go into here -- I've written about those numbers elsewhere) show McGee losing in PER by 1.2. If you look at the "Production by Position" data at 82games (again, not updated since January 13), you'll see the Wizards lose at every position (as measured by PER), including center (-2.1).

And, there's ample evidence to suggest that McGee has been part of the problem, rebounding and blocks notwithstanding. I've posted some detail in another thread, but here's the summary:

- inefficient offense
- worst man defender on the team, according to Synergy data
- incredibly awful on/off numbers -- both ends of the floor

If he hasn't been part of the problem, he also hasn't been part of the solution. Pump the brakes with McGee. Let's see what shakes out with him over the season. I've seen stuff that encourages me, but I see lots of other stuff that suggests he still has a long ways to go.

Fair enough, Nivek. Although to be fair to Mcgee, a large part of Mcgee's inefficiency is because he's not shooting foul shots well this year. He does, however, have the highest shooting percentage on the team aside from Vesely, who hasn't shot made anything other than a dunk this year. And this is the first year his +/- numbers have been against him.

As far as being the worst defender on this team....he has the greatest responsibility so the numbers are probably not going to be in his favor.

I'm not trying to make excuses for the guy, because he definitely has his shortcomings, but he should be a player we keep and develop. Trading him for Scola, while hoping we somehow get Harden, accomplishes nothing.

[llcc25]

TGW, I'm fine with keeping McGee and developing him but at what cost? At minimum its gonna cost $40m over 4 years. At his current level of play is he worth tying up money at a position where he is consistently losing the battle on a game to game basis. And if its likely that we end up with #1 pick and take Davis, I simply cannot see them both being good fits for each other on this team.

if possible, Trading for Scola/Dalembert assures that we upgrade at 2 key positions short term, while long term allowing us to develop our stars, Wall and Davis. So to say it accomplishes nothing is ludicrous. At the very least, having established veterans Dalembert and Scola in the post will help Wall's game moreso than sticking with McGee and Blatche IMO...

[gesa2]

...And if its likely that we end up with #1 pick and take Davis...

You do understand that the team with the worst record in the NBA has only a 25% chance of getting the first pick in the draft, right?

[llcc25]

...And if its likely that we end up with #1 pick and take Davis...

You do understand that the team with the worst record in the NBA has only a 25% chance of getting the first pick in the draft, right?

of course. look with our luck will end up with #4 worst case, which still nets us Lamb or Robinson. with either pick, i'd prefer having established bigs to balance out our young team.

[theboomking]

Minnesota looks to be offering Love a sub-max deal.
http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/ ... 0-million/

If we could trade for Love without losing our 2012 draft pick, we'd be far better. Love would add the rebounding, outlet passing, and floor spacing that this team sorely lacks and would be an incredible match with Wall.

I'd trade McGee, our 2013 pick unprotected, and whatever other player they want.