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Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part II

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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#1361 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Tue Apr 2, 2013 10:03 pm

payitforward wrote:Alas, more data doesn't seem to make a person better at drafting. The proof is that, after the #1 position in the draft, there seems to be no significant statistical correlation between "high-ness" of pick of a player and how good an NBA career he has. This is something Dave Berri has studied specfically, and the numbers just don't show it.

TBH, I don't think many GMs have the faintest ability to target the right players, or that their scouting staffs do. Some organizations do a good job, it's true (San Antonio being the prime example), but most are just terrible at it. And we are worse than most of them.

The problem with "data" is that GMs use it subject to selection bias and confirmation bias. They take in only the data that confirms what they want to prove. And they weigh data that confirms their prejudices more than they weigh data that denies it.


When I look at the most reputable draft site I agree.

Players like Kenneth Faried stand out like a sore thumb statistically. He did what he did year after year and he did it against NBA lottery picks as an NCAA player. He didn't just play at Morehead State. He broke records set by people named Duncan and Robinson. His team beat Dieng and Louisville in the NCAA Tourney after a key block by Faried. Before the draft I posted that Faried was a lottery pick. I was dumbfounded at not just Vesely being picked earler than Faried and by many other players. Some things are obvious.

This season's most underrated player is Doug McDermott.

Draft Express has him going mid round two and nbadraft.net has him going late round 1. Both are absurdly too low. I think all of the GMs and all of the scouts who look at how slow the guy is or how he's too short to play PF or too slow to SF need to take a look at a box score or two. Here is one:

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/box ... ghton.html

McDermott had 41 points on 18 shots against Wichita State. The same Wichita team that is in the Final Four.

If you look at his game logs from this season, in just the last two games he shot 23-23 FTs. That was against Duke and Cincinnati in the NCAAs. http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/pla ... elog/2013/

What makes him a very special player is not just his high scoring at a very efficient rate. McDermott is also among the best defensive rebounders in NCAA play. A look at his game log also reveals big games by McDermott against Wisconsin, California, Arizona State, Boise State, and Akron--each team went to the NCAA tournament. Doug McDermott will be able to score in the NBA. Scouts who look at his color, height, physical attributes are totally missing the point.

http://www.draftexpress.com/stats.php?s ... =prospects
http://www.draftexpress.com/stats.php?y ... ll&sort=20

It's not a big shock that McDermott scored 29.8 points per-40 pace adjusted. What surprised me is that Doug McDermott grabbed 7.9 defensive boards per-40 pace adjusted. His defensive rebounding is right behind Withey's 7.9 and above Olynyk and Len, who were at 7.4 and 7.3. Anthony Benett also grabbed 7.8 defensive boards per-40 pace adjusted.

(Bennett is only 1 year and 3 months younger than McDermott)

What I see with McDermott is a player who if he doesn't go in the lottery will be drafted way too low. He is far too talented to not succeed in the NBA. He has the energy to battle on the boards and he cannot be left open. On a team with many talented players and a penetrating PG like Wall, Doug McDermott can play stretch four and even some SF. He does compare favorably with a player who said he sees himself in McDermott, Wally Szczerbiak.

I hope McDermott is one of the players the Wizards acquire.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#1362 » by Higga » Tue Apr 2, 2013 11:05 pm

Where is Aaron Craft supposed to go? I'm assuming like 2nd rounder? I wouldn't mind picking him up there. He's a hound on D and would give us another perimeter stopper when Wall needs rest.

I like Trey Burke a lot too(2nd favorite player in the nation this year behind Otto Porter). No idea where he's supposed to go but I'd love to have him as well. Can never have enough talent, especially at PG. The Mavs essentially had 3 the year they won it all.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#1363 » by Rafael122 » Wed Apr 3, 2013 12:12 am

Read Larry Coon's stuff on ESPN insider regarding teams with cap space, teams near the luxury tax, etc, and ran into this nugget:

None of these three teams are in a big market, which means that none of the three can really afford to be taxpayers. This could prove to be difficult -- for example, the Thunder currently have 12 players signed for 2013-14, and may have as many as three first-round draft picks. In addition, each team will have free agents it may want to bring back, and each re-signed free agent will further add to the team's total.


The three teams he mentioned are the Thunder, Nuggets, and Grizzlies. Thunder will most likely have 2 first round draft picks this year. If the tax situation is that bad, Wizards should consider buying one of their picks (one of which will be a lottery pick). Not sure how feasible it is, but all this talk about needing a back up big, a small forward, etc, this could be one way. Sending $3 mil in cash and a cheap salary to get another draft pick.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#1364 » by nate33 » Wed Apr 3, 2013 12:16 am

Higga wrote:Where is Aaron Craft supposed to go? I'm assuming like 2nd rounder? I wouldn't mind picking him up there. He's a hound on D and would give us another perimeter stopper when Wall needs rest.

I like Trey Burke a lot too(2nd favorite player in the nation this year behind Otto Porter). No idea where he's supposed to go but I'd love to have him as well. Can never have enough talent, especially at PG. The Mavs essentially had 3 the year they won it all.

Aaron Craft is only a junior, and he cares a lot about his education. (He has a 3.96 GPA, IIRC.) It's unlikely he'll leave school early just to be a 2nd round pick. I've talked to people who know people who know Craft who have said that Craft might not even bother to go pro (or go overseas) and will instead enter med school.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#1365 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Wed Apr 3, 2013 12:29 am

Nivek wrote:Top 12 I have in so far with "standardized" YODA score:

  1. Oladipo 14
  2. Olynyk 13
  3. Trey Burke 12
  4. Nerlens Noel 11
  5. Zeller 11
  6. Porter 10
  7. Bennett 9
  8. McLemore 9
  9. Ryan Kelly 9
  10. McDermott 9
  11. Marcus Smart 8
  12. Deing 7

Typical #1 pick has a score over 20. Top score ever was Shaq's sophomore season (36). Davis last season scored a 28.

In last year's draft, the talent was better at the top, but the drop-off was steeper.


Nivek, if you have a spare moment I would love to see where any of the following players rate in YODA:

C J McCollum, Jamaal Franklin, Andre Roberson, Colton Iverson, Zeke Marshall, Doug Wolters, D J Stephens.

Some of them are one-trick ponies, players who have one great strength. Others are players who dominate defensively or offensively, but not both. I'm curious where they rate.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#1366 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Wed Apr 3, 2013 12:36 am

Pittsburg's Steve Adams has declared his intentions to go pro.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketb ... ing-to-nba

According to sources, one of the primary reasons for Adams deciding to leave college after just one year is to help provide for his family. He has 18 siblings and his father passed away when Steven Adams was 14 years old.


There are a relative ton of big men declaring in this draft. I expect Isaiah Austin and Rudy Gobert will declare. What typically happens is GMs gamble on potential. There is a Greek/African player who also will go round one most likely. Adams will go in round one almost for sure. That will likely push another good player to round two.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#1367 » by nate33 » Wed Apr 3, 2013 12:51 am

Holy crap! 18 siblings?
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#1368 » by stevemcqueen1 » Wed Apr 3, 2013 12:58 am

Rafael122 wrote:The three teams he mentioned are the Thunder, Nuggets, and Grizzlies. Thunder will most likely have 2 first round draft picks this year. If the tax situation is that bad, Wizards should consider buying one of their picks (one of which will be a lottery pick). Not sure how feasible it is, but all this talk about needing a back up big, a small forward, etc, this could be one way. Sending $3 mil in cash and a cheap salary to get another draft pick.


I think that's a great idea. I would try and buy their lotto pick. We need a big man and a guard that can run some point this offseason and the draft is probably the cheapest way to do it. Or we could even package two first rounders together to move up and get the guy we really want, especially if they are both lotto picks.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#1369 » by AFM » Wed Apr 3, 2013 1:02 am

He's gonna need a nice career to take care of 18 siblings.... Wow!
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#1370 » by SUPERBALLMAN » Wed Apr 3, 2013 1:38 am

I have no expectations, but I'd love to see the Wizards pick up 2 late 1sts, and they have assets to do it.

For teams with cap issues, Wizards have a cap helping trade expemption at their disposal. They have 2 2nd rounders. Some young players like Vesely, Seraphin, Satoransky & Singleton.

I'd love to get a couple guys like Dieng & Mcdermott later in the round.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#1371 » by dangermouse » Wed Apr 3, 2013 1:41 am

AFM wrote:He's gonna need a nice career to take care of 18 siblings.... Wow!


Thats insane.

He could be making a couple of million per year and still be living worse than a college student.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#1372 » by dangermouse » Wed Apr 3, 2013 1:43 am

If we can re-sign Webster im all for taking the best big man.

Unless Porter is still on the board. Kid is gonna be good.
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long suffrin' boulez fan wrote:
NatP4 wrote:but why would the pacers want Mahinmi's contract


Well, in fairness, we took Mike Pence off their hands. Taking back Mahinmi is the least they can do.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#1373 » by nate33 » Wed Apr 3, 2013 1:51 am

SUPERBALLMAN wrote:I have no expectations, but I'd love to see the Wizards pick up 2 late 1sts, and they have assets to do it.

For teams with cap issues, Wizards have a cap helping trade expemption at their disposal. They have 2 2nd rounders. Some young players like Vesely, Seraphin, Satoransky & Singleton.

I'd love to get a couple guys like Dieng & Mcdermott later in the round.

That's just not the Wizards' MO. They're going to be thinking that they already have too many developing youngsters as it is, particularly young bigs. They don't want to add a bunch more.

They really need to find a way to jettison the youngsters that really have no hope of being anything more than journeymen. That means Vesely and Singleton have got to go. Booker is basically a vet already so keeping him isn't going to bring down the team's maturity level. Beal is also a vet when it comes to bball IQ. That would leave only Seraphin as the sole "project" on the team. That would clear some room for some more youngsters.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#1374 » by Ed Wood » Wed Apr 3, 2013 1:58 am

More prospects of some merit period is certainly a positive and will hopefully open up more appealing options later in the draft but I don't think Adams himself is such a poor prospect. He didn't quicken too many pulses as a freshman but in a limited role he was very respectable against strong competition and I think very definitively helped his team. His freshman year in terms of overall quality wasn't very far off of what Mason Plumlee did last year or what Alex Len did this year and I think I'd safely prefer Adams having done it at 18 and 19 to Plumlee doing it at 21 and 22.

I have absolutely no idea what to make of Isaiah Austin, none. His freshman year isn't all that different from that of Perry Jones but I have no idea yet if that's a good or a bad thing.

edit: Oh no Nate, not Ves, not Singleton, you are gutting this franchise and salting the fields of its future. We have to hold on to those two.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#1375 » by nuposse04 » Wed Apr 3, 2013 2:02 am

Issiah Austin should be available in the mid teens I think, He had a decent game against BYU, If somehow Porter/Oladipo drop to us at 10/9 I wouldn't mind trading back up to grab Austin. Although his Baylor counterpart also seems like a prime backup pg. I'm sure RG III would show up for more games, providing for more good ju-ju for the team.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#1376 » by tontoz » Wed Apr 3, 2013 2:05 am

The Terps are hard to watch. So careless with the ball. i intended to watch more college ball this year but generally when i do i can't watch more than a quarter before i turn it off.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#1377 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Wed Apr 3, 2013 2:11 am

tontoz wrote:The Terps are hard to watch. So careless with the ball. i intended to watch more college ball this year but generally when i do i can't watch more than a quarter before i turn it off.


Yeah, I'm about to go to my sons' youth baseball practice. (It's just after 4PM HST) I will set the DVR but Maryland's guards are pathetic and I wonder about Coach Turgeon. No way they win this game against Iowa.

This is Len's last game, and I say that as the score is 19-33 with 5:13 in the half.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#1378 » by Wizardspride » Wed Apr 3, 2013 2:12 am

Alex Len can't get one measly touch.

I know he has his weaknesses but I'd be soooooooo frustrated if I were him. :nonono:

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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#1379 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Wed Apr 3, 2013 2:14 am

Wizardspride wrote:Alex Len can't get one measly touch.

I know he has his weaknesses but I'd be soooooooo frustrated if I were him. :nonono:


Len can't get a touch and two big, burly freshman have butterfingers and, apparently, weak hands. The ball looks like somebody poured vegetable oil on it when the Terps have possession.

This is absolutely hard to watch.
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Re: Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part II 

Post#1380 » by sfam » Wed Apr 3, 2013 2:17 am

tontoz wrote:The Terps are hard to watch. So careless with the ball. i intended to watch more college ball this year but generally when i do i can't watch more than a quarter before i turn it off.

Agreed. This is definitely an endurance contest that I feel like i`m losing.

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