Discussing Other Teams' Moves Part 3

[Kanyewest]

How is a playoff team going to pay Pierce $15M to be a "shooter off the bench"? Playoff teams don't have those types of expendable contracts to send out as filler. Any team that is sitting around with $15M in useless filler contracts probably isn't a playoff team.

I'm not necessarily advising these teams to go through with getting Pierce but these teams certainly have the expirings to get the deal done and would be in the playoffs if the regular season ended today.


The Pacers have Danny Granger.
The Suns have Emeka Okafor.
The Wizards have Trevor Ariza and fillers (Vesely, Singleton, Seraphin, Booker)
Charlotte has Ben Gordon
Detroit has Rodney Stuckey and fillers

Phoenix, Charlotte and Detroit aren't going to sacrifice any assets to make a playoff run when they have no chance at all to actually contend. They could trade the guys you mentioned in straight up deals, but they wouldn't include any serious incentive.

The Wizards would be downgrading if they traded Ariza for Pierce.

The only trade that even remotely makes sense is Granger for Pierce, and that's only if Granger never returns to form. And even then, I don't see Indy giving up much incentive - maybe a 2nd rounder.

The point is, Pierce isn't really a trade asset. He can be moved because he is an expiring contract, but Brooklyn isn't going to get any real value in return unless they take on a long contract.

I agree with this philosophy but I'm not sure how many owners and teams abide by it. For instance, Phoenix held on to Steve Nash longer than it should have and remained mediocre. The team most likely to make this move is the Charlotte Bobcats because they have made a lot of short-sighted moves in the past. I agree it is unlikely that Indiana trades Granger.

[Kanyewest]

No way in hell you give the Nets Ariza for Pierce. Yes Pierce is a good household name but he is not a better player then Ariza. Hell wing play isn't even our most pressing need. Truthfully both KG AND pierce are bad this year. If the nets were able to attach a 1st to one of them then you listen, otherwise cap space is far more desirable then those two jerk-offs.

I hope you are right that the Wizards don't trade Ariza for Pierce. But the Wizards did almost trade Ariza last offseason for Caron Butler so who knows.

[Ruzious]

No way in hell you give the Nets Ariza for Pierce. Yes Pierce is a good household name but he is not a better player then Ariza. Hell wing play isn't even our most pressing need. Truthfully both KG AND pierce are bad this year. If the nets were able to attach a 1st to one of them then you listen, otherwise cap space is far more desirable then those two jerk-offs.

I hope you are right that the Wizards don't trade Ariza for Pierce. But the Wizards did almost trade Ariza last offseason for Caron Butler so who knows.

I wouldn't worry, and I'm still convinced there's no way even EG would have made that trade. If they were really talking, I'd assume the Wiz would have required a first round pick in an Ariza for Butler deal.

Speaking of aging vets, it looks like Tim Duncan is finally slowing down. He's got the lowest PER (20.4) and eFG (46% - not good) of his career - and significant drops from last season. Even as a rookie, he was a great player. He's still good and very effective, but times running down on the Great Fundamental. I watched last night's game against Houston/Howard, and he was clanging flat shots off the rim - I don't think the knees bend for him like they used to.

Then again, he's still the focal point of a team/machine that's 22-7. So, what do I know?

[pancakes3]

He looked equally cooked back in 2011 and then came back in a big way in 2012 and 2013. The major red flag is that his fg% is way way down. He had a couple of awful shooting nights this season. 1-12, 3-13 type nights - and most against good teams (IND, OKC, and most recently HOU on Christmas). He also had his 1-12 night against us early in the season but won by 13 anyway. I suspect that as long as he defends and rebounds the Spurs as a whole will be fine but... yeah. I agree. Duncan has probably finally faded to 2nd most important to the Spurs success for good at this point.

It'll be interesting to see how they reload. Leonard is a good piece but he's not a centerpiece.

[fishercob]

Anthony Bennett makes more money than MArtell Webster over the next four years. He could go down as the biggest bust of a #1 pick in recent history -- he makes Kwame look like a HOFer.

[hands11]

Beware of Max contract players. Specially max contract PGs. GIl. Now Williams.

I don't think all max contracts are created equal. Zach Lowe and Bill Simmons broke out max contracts by the following:

1) mini-max - max contracts given after rookie deals which aren't cap killing; 4/60 or 5/80. i.e. Hibberts, Walls, or George's contract.
2) mega-max - max contracts given after the mini-max. i.e. Dwights, Melo's, Derons, Lebron's, Wades, Bosh's, Gilberts.

I think mini-max's are safer contracts for teams. Rarely do these completely blow up in teams faces. However, mega-max deals normally don't work-out for the teams except when they're given to true elite elite players. Deron Williams isn't a mega-max player.

This is why I wasn't overly concerned with Wall's extension, however, he's going to need to improve a lot within 5 years to be worth a second extension. I doubt he'll improve enough to merit a massive Gil sized deal so I'd look to trade him in 4 seasons if Washington isn't a clear championship caliber team.

Sorry for not clarifying. Beware of mega-max. Specially to PGs Gil and Deron. Will CP3 ever win a title. Hasn't happened yet.

Walls contract while not idea, has the potential to not be terrible. Its probably about 1M or so high a year from where I would say it would be more solid value.

Just don't like players making more than 14M or so unless they are named Lebron or Kevin Durrant. Kobe and Dirk were worth it in their day. So was Wade and Duncan. But the Lakers extending Kobe for 23M and 25M doesn't make sense to me. Not at his age with his miles coming off that kind of an injury.

I look down the list of player making more then 14/15M that and I don't see the value. So many bad contracts. Just very risky unless that player is rock solid in play and personality.

http://hoopshype.com/salaries.htm

[hands11]

How is a playoff team going to pay Pierce $15M to be a "shooter off the bench"? Playoff teams don't have those types of expendable contracts to send out as filler. Any team that is sitting around with $15M in useless filler contracts probably isn't a playoff team.

I'm not necessarily advising these teams to go through with getting Pierce but these teams certainly have the expirings to get the deal done and would be in the playoffs if the regular season ended today.


The Pacers have Danny Granger.
The Suns have Emeka Okafor.
The Wizards have Trevor Ariza and fillers (Vesely, Singleton, Seraphin, Booker)
Charlotte has Ben Gordon
Detroit has Rodney Stuckey and fillers

Phoenix, Charlotte and Detroit aren't going to sacrifice any assets to make a playoff run when they have no chance at all to actually contend. They could trade the guys you mentioned in straight up deals, but they wouldn't include any serious incentive.

The Wizards would be downgrading if they traded Ariza for Pierce.

The only trade that even remotely makes sense is Granger for Pierce, and that's only if Granger never returns to form. And even then, I don't see Indy giving up much incentive - maybe a 2nd rounder.

The point is, Pierce isn't really a trade asset. He can be moved because he is an expiring contract, but Brooklyn isn't going to get any real value in return unless they take on a long contract.

PP does have a little more value then you give credit. He has been dinged up this year and playing on a dysfunctional team that has had injuries. PP is a legit first ballet HOF player with titles. If he can get healthy this year, having PP on your team in the playoff is a nice addition.

I wouldn't do TA for him because PP isn't going to have much in him past this year. At least no title chasing value. But if you are a team that has a player you want to move on a 1 or 2 year contract and you think you can contend this year, you might want to look at PP. He didn't get named The Truth for no reason. He might be lower production, but PP can do it when all the marbles are on the line. All pts are not created equally. He has wisdom and mental experience that could benefit a title team. Just like Ray Allen had last year.

PP had/has a fracture hand. Its not even healed all the way yet. His production might drop some this year, but I think what you have seen so far is not what he can still do. Maybe we end up seeing RA on one side and PP on the other.

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/_/i ... aul-pierce

[FAH1223]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/ESPNStatsInfo/status/416424672708681728[/tweet]

James Harden: 1st player to have 25+ points in game in which he made 2 or fewer baskets since Charles Barkley, 1995

That's not going to happen in the playoffs.

[pancakes3]

Wade begs to differ

http://www.basketball-reference.com/box ... 80MIA.html

[FAH1223]

Wade begs to differ

http://www.basketball-reference.com/box ... 80MIA.html

he made 11 baskets though

[verbal8]

If I"m KG, I'd retire after this nightmare of a season. Between the losing, decline in skill, and getting dogged out by Jason Kidd on the regular, I just see zero appeal in staying for him.

I see it very unlikely that KG will be with the Nets next year. Either he will get bought out and sign with a contender this season, or he will retire at the end of the season.

[verbal8]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/ESPNStatsInfo/status/416424672708681728[/tweet]

James Harden: 1st player to have 25+ points in game in which he made 2 or fewer baskets since Charles Barkley, 1995

That's not going to happen in the playoffs.

Harden shot 5 more FTs than the entire grizzlies team.

[pancakes3]

Harden shot 5 more FTs than the entire grizzlies team.

He MADE more than they TOOK.

[LyricalRico]

Wow, Westbrook out again with a knee issue.

[hands11]

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/23 ... zlies-Nets

Sources-Luol-Deng-Receiving-Interest-From-Cavaliers-Mavericks-Lakers-Raptors-Spurs-Grizzlies-Nets

He should go to Dallas or the Spurs if he has any say in it.

Wow, could Dallas really put together a contender out of nothing ?

[hands11]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/ESPNStatsInfo/status/416424672708681728[/tweet]

James Harden: 1st player to have 25+ points in game in which he made 2 or fewer baskets since Charles Barkley, 1995

That's not going to happen in the playoffs.

http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?id=400489297

[Jay81]

al horford..recurring shoulder injuries. Not sure if I would touch him at this point and Westbrook is becoming Arenas with his knee

[No-Man]

Westbrook injury is not serious he is justt having artroscopic surgery because its swelling, its not like he got injured again, and he was playing great this season thus far.

With Horford out, Wizards are clear favs for the 3 seed.

[LyricalRico]

Horford's injury is actually his pectoral, although at least this isn't the same one he hurt previously. It'll be interesting to see what the Hawks do. I think they have the right to swap picks with BKN due to the Joe Johnson trade, so tanking doesn't really help them since that pick would probably be higher anyway.

[Induveca]

Horford's injury is actually his pectoral, although at least this isn't the same one he hurt previously. It'll be interesting to see what the Hawks do. I think they have the right to swap picks with BKN due to the Joe Johnson trade, so tanking doesn't really help them since that pick would probably be higher anyway.

Torn pectoral, OUCH. He's not coming back this year. Not exactly sure where the tendon tore, but typically complete tears have to be reattached via screw to bone and a ton of sutures to the torn tendon. Horrible pain, and also puts the bone reattached basically in a broken state. Believe he's right handed, so if he tore his pectoral on his dominant side, he's in for a LONG recovery. Non-dominant, could be back in 4 months but he's not back to normal until next season.

Of course it all depends if it's a complete torn pectoral as being reported. That's one hell of an injury.