Official Trade Thread - Part XXVII

[Dat2U]

1.) Nene + Webster to Sacramento for Jason Thompson, Jason Terry, Derrick Williams, and #8

I think to get the 8th pick a team will have to take on Landry and Thompson. Possibly they are willing to use the pick to solve some long salary cap issues and add some vet leadership.

That'd be too much for me. The thing about Nene is that he's actually a good player. Way better than anyone Sacramento gives up. And probably more valuable than all three of them would be combined. I'm not giving up Nene, Webster, AND taking on two bad contracts just to get #8--a pick that Sacramento can barely develop because they're already too young and too flawed.

You have to add in the caveats though. Nene is a good player when he's:

1. On the floor...

2. And Completely healthy.

3. 1 & 2 don't happen a lot together.

So often were left with either a banged up Nene half the time or were stuck with Nene's backup starting for a good 20-25 games a year.

At $13+mil, that's a very poor allocation of resources. At 50-60 games a year and playing less than 100% in a good chunk of them, Nene has lost a decent amount of productivity over the past few years. At 31, it's very unlikely that his chronic injuries will improve. If there's any opportunity to move Nene for guys that can actually contribute or to get out of his contract early, by all means we should take it. I'm quite sure for the amount of coin Nene is making, you could find players who are more productive and reliable.

[LyricalRico]

^ Agree with nate - pass on Hibbert. Especially in a Melo scenario, but I'd probably pass on Hibbert in any scenario.

We don't agree often. But on this we do. And any time we agree, you are right.

Well, played PIF. LOL

[LyricalRico]

Any thoughts on this:

Wizards trade: Nene
Cavs trade: Verajao and Jack

Gives CLE a frontcourt scorer who isn't any more of an injury risk than the big they're giving up. Wiz help their 2015 cap situation and get backcourt depth, plus the extra year on Jack's deal isn't guaranteed for that much (I recall seeing as low as $500k).

At that point, we'd just need to figure out our PF position. Maybe put in a bid for 1 year of an amnestied Boozer, sign Booker for the QO, and bring back Gooden for insurance? It would also allow us to do nate's Webster-for-Jackson+TPE idea without losing any depth.

Gortat/Verajao/Gooden
Boozer/Booker
Ariza/Porter
Beal/Jack
Wall/Miller/Jackson

[Dark Faze]

the above scenario is exactly why I'd rather just get Melo and hope things work out

You could magically remove whatever contracts you wanted from this team and you'd still have a hard time building us into a contender over the next few years without getting Love or Durant in free agency unless Wall and Beal reach their ceilings...and even then its a struggle

Why on earth would you say no to a 25 PER player with the sort of bums we've had to watch over the last five years?

[nate33]

Any thoughts on this:

Wizards trade: Nene
Cavs trade: Verajao and Jack

Gives CLE a frontcourt scorer who isn't any more of an injury risk than the big they're giving up. Wiz help their 2015 cap situation and get backcourt depth, plus the extra year on Jack's deal isn't guaranteed for that much (I recall seeing as low as $500k).

At that point, we'd just need to figure out our PF position. Maybe put in a bid for 1 year of an amnestied Boozer, sign Booker for the QO, and bring back Gooden for insurance? It would also allow us to do nate's Webster-for-Jackson+TPE idea without losing any depth.

Gortat/Verajao/Gooden
Boozer/Booker
Ariza/Porter
Beal/Jack
Wall/Miller/Jackson

Why would Cleveland do this?

[nuposse04]

In any Webster trades, I think our best bet is to maybe look to teams that are simply lacking in salary....I have to wonder if Webster+.....Tomas/Rice might be incentive enough for the Jazz to take him off our hands....Ideally I'd still like to take a stab at Kanter as a backup big here but I'm not exactly sure what is fair market value for Kanter right now.

[stevemcqueen1]

I think to get the 8th pick a team will have to take on Landry and Thompson. Possibly they are willing to use the pick to solve some long salary cap issues and add some vet leadership.

That'd be too much for me. The thing about Nene is that he's actually a good player. Way better than anyone Sacramento gives up. And probably more valuable than all three of them would be combined. I'm not giving up Nene, Webster, AND taking on two bad contracts just to get #8--a pick that Sacramento can barely develop because they're already too young and too flawed.

You have to add in the caveats though. Nene is a good player when he's:

1. On the floor...

2. And Completely healthy.

3. 1 & 2 don't happen a lot together.

So often were left with either a banged up Nene half the time or were stuck with Nene's backup starting for a good 20-25 games a year.

At $13+mil, that's a very poor allocation of resources. At 50-60 games a year and playing less than 100% in a good chunk of them, Nene has lost a decent amount of productivity over the past few years. At 31, it's very unlikely that his chronic injuries will improve. If there's any opportunity to move Nene for guys that can actually contribute or to get out of his contract early, by all means we should take it. I'm quite sure for the amount of coin Nene is making, you could find players who are more productive and reliable.

According to Gortat, Nene was playing at 60 or 70% this year. He was still effective and he's a big part of our success. And suffice to say, we don't win that Bulls series without him. His injuries don't make him worthless because he was valuable this season. We don't need to just give him away or make a bad deal to get rid of him.

In the case that verbal mentioned, that would be a very bad deal. We give away two useful players to take on two bad contracts in Thompson and Landry and total dead weight in JET and only come away with the 8th overall pick for our trouble. If we're trying to clear cap in this case, wouldn't make sense because both Landry and Thompson have three years left. JET's done. And Thompson has never been great. Nene is waaay better than all of them. Plus we're throwing in a 40% 3 pt shooter on a reasonable contract too.

Landry would probably kill any deal for me outright. Dude is coming off a meniscus tear and hip surgery and only played 233 minutes last season. That's a rough contract.

I would look to deal Nene, but it's got to be a good deal.

[payitforward]

I'm still struggling to understand what the drastic difference is between Carmelo and Durant.

Durant is better obviously--he's more efficient, but ... Durant ...brings many of the same problems to the table that Melo does--including what will be an extremely large price tag.

Melo isn't coming here. And you know what -- Durant isn't coming here either. We'll actually have to *build* this team.

All the same, you actually aren't struggling to understand the drastic difference between the two players: as you say, Durant is more efficient. Drastically more efficient -- and that's the difference. The guy gets you 33.5 points every game at a .63 TS%. If the rest of your team is only average, that is probably enough to get you a 50 win season.

[payitforward]

^ Agree with nate - pass on Hibbert. Especially in a Melo scenario, but I'd probably pass on Hibbert in any scenario.

Would you consider a S&T Gortat for Hibbert (and forget Melo)? It would be a high risk/high reward move, and I doubt Indy would do it. But a Wall/Beal/Hibbert core could be (and I emphasize "could") pretty nice.

That is an interesting option. From a production standpoint, Hibbert seems more of a risk. However from an injury/contract point of view Gortat on a 4 year deal seems like the bigger risk. I think it really comes down to salary of who is a better option. If Gortat's deal starts in the 12 to 13 million dollar range and climbs, I think rolling the dice with Hibbert might be the way to go.

Gortat is a *much* more productive player than Hibbert. I can't see any reason to do this deal.

[payitforward]

I think to get the 8th pick a team will have to take on Landry and Thompson. Possibly they are willing to use the pick to solve some long salary cap issues and add some vet leadership.

That'd be too much for me. The thing about Nene is that he's actually a good player. Way better than anyone Sacramento gives up. And probably more valuable than all three of them would be combined. I'm not giving up Nene, Webster, AND taking on two bad contracts just to get #8--a pick that Sacramento can barely develop because they're already too young and too flawed.

You have to add in the caveats though. Nene is a good player when he's:

1. On the floor...

2. And Completely healthy.

3. 1 & 2 don't happen a lot together.

So often were left with either a banged up Nene half the time or were stuck with Nene's backup starting for a good 20-25 games a year.

At $13+mil, that's a very poor allocation of resources. At 50-60 games a year and playing less than 100% in a good chunk of them, Nene has lost a decent amount of productivity over the past few years. At 31, it's very unlikely that his chronic injuries will improve. If there's any opportunity to move Nene for guys that can actually contribute or to get out of his contract early, by all means we should take it. I'm quite sure for the amount of coin Nene is making, you could find players who are more productive and reliable.

What Dat said....

I don't really get why people think Nene is a good player, tbh. He certainly was a good player, no question about that. And he certainly is a good guy, no question about that either. So maybe that's it?

[payitforward]

Any thoughts on this:

Wizards trade: Nene
Cavs trade: Verajao and Jack

Gives CLE a frontcourt scorer who isn't any more of an injury risk than the big they're giving up. Wiz help their 2015 cap situation and get backcourt depth, plus the extra year on Jack's deal isn't guaranteed for that much (I recall seeing as low as $500k).

At that point, we'd just need to figure out our PF position. Maybe put in a bid for 1 year of an amnestied Boozer, sign Booker for the QO, and bring back Gooden for insurance? It would also allow us to do nate's Webster-for-Jackson+TPE idea without losing any depth.

Gortat/Verajao/Gooden
Boozer/Booker
Ariza/Porter
Beal/Jack
Wall/Miller/Jackson

Rico, mon ami, what are you smoking? Cleveland would never do that deal. No team would.

But... if they would, I'd certainly jump on it. Varejao would start at the 4, where he's played a lot of his minutes anyway. We'd have no need for Boozer (though if he's amnestied, why not? -- he'd cost next to nothing). I'd extend Booker -- very productive, still young, would be affordable.

We could let Miller go (or, better, pick up his option and trade him?) because Jack is a PG not SG and would give us a very capable backup.

Trading Webster for Jackson and a TPE might be problematic at that point -- I have high hopes for Otto, sure, but we'd be pretty thin at the 3 all the same, no?

[payitforward]

We'd look something like this:

Gortat/Gooden/Boozer
Varejao/Booker
Ariza/Porter
Beal/Webster
Wall/Jack

With whatever trade assets we had, we'd be shopping for a young big. We'd be hoping that Rice could bring something to the table; if so, and if Porter does develop nicely, then Webster is a valuable trade asset -- and maybe we *do* make that trade w/ NO and use the TPE in another move?

Unfortunately... I can't see Cleveland giving up Varejao/Jack for Nene.

[dckingsfan]

In any Webster trades, I think our best bet is to maybe look to teams that are simply lacking in salary....I have to wonder if Webster+.....Tomas/Rice might be incentive enough for the Jazz to take him off our hands....Ideally I'd still like to take a stab at Kanter as a backup big here but I'm not exactly sure what is fair market value for Kanter right now.

The problem I see that the Wizards value Webster. So, even though you are right, I don't see that happening.

[LyricalRico]

Any thoughts on this:

Wizards trade: Nene
Cavs trade: Verajao and Jack

Gives CLE a frontcourt scorer who isn't any more of an injury risk than the big they're giving up. Wiz help their 2015 cap situation and get backcourt depth, plus the extra year on Jack's deal isn't guaranteed for that much (I recall seeing as low as $500k).

At that point, we'd just need to figure out our PF position. Maybe put in a bid for 1 year of an amnestied Boozer, sign Booker for the QO, and bring back Gooden for insurance? It would also allow us to do nate's Webster-for-Jackson+TPE idea without losing any depth.

Gortat/Verajao/Gooden
Boozer/Booker
Ariza/Porter
Beal/Jack
Wall/Miller/Jackson

Why would Cleveland do this?

Because they feel guilty about getting the #1 pick so many times, and want to help somebody else?

Seriously, I was thinking they may want more offense out of their frontcourt.

[Dat2U]

According to Gortat, Nene was playing at 60 or 70% this year. He was still effective and he's a big part of our success. And suffice to say, we don't win that Bulls series without him. His injuries don't make him worthless because he was valuable this season. We don't need to just give him away or make a bad deal to get rid of him.

In the case that verbal mentioned, that would be a very bad deal. We give away two useful players to take on two bad contracts in Thompson and Landry and total dead weight in JET and only come away with the 8th overall pick for our trouble. If we're trying to clear cap in this case, wouldn't make sense because both Landry and Thompson have three years left. JET's done. And Thompson has never been great. Nene is waaay better than all of them. Plus we're throwing in a 40% 3 pt shooter on a reasonable contract too.

Landry would probably kill any deal for me outright. Dude is coming off a meniscus tear and hip surgery and only played 233 minutes last season. That's a rough contract.

I would look to deal Nene, but it's got to be a good deal.

Your not going to find a perfect deal for a 31 yr old injury plagued big in a significant decline.

And I question the logic that he's still good. Is he still capable of good performances? Of course. But consistency and availability matters and he struggles mightily at both. He wasn't a big part of our success outside of the first few games of the Bulls series. IMO, it appears your only focusing on the good. But with Nene you have to take the good and the bad and there was a significant amount of minutes he spent on the court where he was basically ineffective and he kills our offensive spacing. He was only at 60-70% this year? What makes you think that's going to change for the better? Especially when on top of all of his injury issues, he's still planning to play for his country this off-season.

It's only going to get worse with Nene from here.

[Rafael122]

Nene is playing for Brazil this summer so I'm already expecting the worse next year.

[jivelikenice]

Funny thing is he played less this year than he did in '12-'13 coming off the olympics. Injury prone is injury prone. Unless he decides to try something different and lose some weight to take pressure off his lower body it is what it is.

[dckingsfan]

Funny thing is he played less this year than he did in '12-'13 coming off the olympics. Injury prone is injury prone. Unless he decides to try something different and lose some weight to take pressure off his lower body it is what it is.

It just means that between Nene and Gooden, we won't have a complete FC player in terms of minutes. Add 3 more on top of Nene/Gooden.

[gambitx777]

I think this would be a decent deal to look at.
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=mgoyulw

Wiz, get Gallanari and Faried
Kings get NENE
Denver gets, Landry and Thompson along with, the kings 8th pick.

Now it might take some little stuff to sweeten the deal, but its not the most outrageous s deal i've ever heard of either.

[fishercob]

I think this would be a decent deal to look at.
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=mgoyulw

Wiz, get Gallanari and Faried
Kings get NENE
Denver gets, Landry and Thompson along with, the kings 8th pick.

Now it might take some little stuff to sweeten the deal, but its not the most outrageous s deal i've ever heard of either.

If the Kings were willing to take Nene for #8, I'd just prefer to deal direct with them. Faried is about to get paid and loses a lot of his relative value on a market deal. Gallo is damaged goods.

Aaron Gordon may not be a floor stretcher, but he just may be the next Shawn Marion; he's who I'd want at 8.