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Official Trade Thread - Part XXIX

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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXIX 

Post#1361 » by stevemcqueen1 » Sat Jul 11, 2015 6:34 pm

montestewart wrote:
LyricalRico wrote:Miami just signed Amare. What about Webster for McBob? We add a PF without adding much to our 2016 salary, the Heat save longterm.

Get 'er done, LR!

PS: How much is he owed?


Two more years of MLE money with a third year player option. Pass. We don't need to compound the Webster mistake by adding two more years of dead weight contract. The guy had one good season as a back up and then tore his meniscus in first year of a four year deal.

I'd rather Miami stayed way up in the luxury tax too, because it effectily eliminatrs their ability to reload.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXIX 

Post#1362 » by stevemcqueen1 » Sat Jul 11, 2015 6:42 pm

LyricalRico wrote:
Ruzious wrote:
LyricalRico wrote:
I still say Webster+2nd to Philly for Jason Thompson works for both teams. Contracts are almost identical, and it balances both teams. We'd be super deep at that point IMO.

Come to think of it, with all the wings the team has added, they might be in a position where they can sit Webster all year and prevent him from playing enough games to get his partial guarantee but not have an issue with the players association. That position also gives them leverage in buyout talks.

Doesn't Thompson have another year left on his contract? If so, wouldn't that be a deal-breaker for the Wiz?


Thompson's last year is partially guaranteed for about the same amount that Webster's is (assuming he meets the games played threshold). So if the Wizards were expecting to have to pay somebody around $2.5 to go away next summer anyway, might as well spend it on a guy that's more likely to help them this year. That's what I was thinking.



You've sold me. I'd make that trade. Thompson is a legit big body on the bench on an appealing deal. Give us some resiliency for Nene's inevitable 25 game vacation. Webster's deal is pure dead weight and Thompson would be worth more simply as injury insurance. Plus it'd mean Blair would never need to play. I'm having a hard time seeing the downside if Philly says yes.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXIX 

Post#1363 » by nate33 » Sat Jul 11, 2015 8:24 pm

payitforward wrote:Lets start w/ Nikola Vucevic. But, no, in fact lets not. Lets please not find some other way to prove some unproveable point.

You got me there. Vucevic is definitely an exception.

I still maintain that it's extraordinarily rare. Typically, if a young player is traded 1 or 2 seasons into his contract, the player ends up being a journeyman. I'm thinking about guys like Thomas Robinson, Michael Beasley, Derrick Williams, Dion Waiters, Austin Rivers, MCW, Wesley Johnson, Cole Aldrich, Johnny Flynn, Terrence Williams, Hasheem Thabeet and Cole Aldrich. Indeed, pretty much every single lotto pick of the past 6 years who has been traded within the first 2 years has been a bust. MCW is the only possible exception because he hasn't quite proven that he's a bust just yet.

I guess the more that I think about it, the rule applies only to relatively high picks (including Vonleh). There are probably times when late 1st round picks just don't fit in very well on a certain team and the teams don't make developing the player a priority (because they're usually too busy winning). Those guys might be undervalued by current teams and could thrive in a change of scenery.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXIX 

Post#1364 » by nate33 » Sat Jul 11, 2015 8:27 pm

stevemcqueen1 wrote:
LyricalRico wrote:
Ruzious wrote:Doesn't Thompson have another year left on his contract? If so, wouldn't that be a deal-breaker for the Wiz?


Thompson's last year is partially guaranteed for about the same amount that Webster's is (assuming he meets the games played threshold). So if the Wizards were expecting to have to pay somebody around $2.5 to go away next summer anyway, might as well spend it on a guy that's more likely to help them this year. That's what I was thinking.


You've sold me. I'd make that trade. Thompson is a legit big body on the bench on an appealing deal. Give us some resiliency for Nene's inevitable 25 game vacation. Webster's deal is pure dead weight and Thompson would be worth more simply as injury insurance. Plus it'd mean Blair would never need to play. I'm having a hard time seeing the downside if Philly says yes.

Is Thompson any better than Blair? Is is such a bad thing if Blair sees a little playing time as our 4th big if one of the other guys gets hurt. I don't think he's very good, but he's roughly as good as Seraphin; so if we survived with Seraphin last year, we'll survive with Blair.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXIX 

Post#1365 » by stevemcqueen1 » Sat Jul 11, 2015 11:44 pm

nate33 wrote:
stevemcqueen1 wrote:
LyricalRico wrote:
Thompson's last year is partially guaranteed for about the same amount that Webster's is (assuming he meets the games played threshold). So if the Wizards were expecting to have to pay somebody around $2.5 to go away next summer anyway, might as well spend it on a guy that's more likely to help them this year. That's what I was thinking.


You've sold me. I'd make that trade. Thompson is a legit big body on the bench on an appealing deal. Give us some resiliency for Nene's inevitable 25 game vacation. Webster's deal is pure dead weight and Thompson would be worth more simply as injury insurance. Plus it'd mean Blair would never need to play. I'm having a hard time seeing the downside if Philly says yes.

Is Thompson any better than Blair? Is is such a bad thing if Blair sees a little playing time as our 4th big if one of the other guys gets hurt. I don't think he's very good, but he's roughly as good as Seraphin; so if we survived with Seraphin last year, we'll survive with Blair.


I think a large barrel placed at the top of the key to set screens for Wall would have been better than Blair last season. He was utterly unplayable--during the few minutes he got, you couldn't wait for him to get exiled back to the bench. There was never any real competition between him and Seraphin last season. Neither he nor Martell Webster should probably be on an NBA roster at this point, and those two constitute the biggest dead weight on the team today.

Jason Thompson isn't any good, but I think he could at least give you a thousand NBA caliber minutes or so. And if the unthinkable happens and Gortat goes down, then at least we'd have a live body to sub in at C. He's got size and he can rebound and he can hit a baseline 15 footer. It's not great, but I'm not sure you could do better for trading Webster.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXIX 

Post#1366 » by montestewart » Sun Jul 12, 2015 3:43 am

stevemcqueen1 wrote:I think a large barrel placed at the top of the key to set screens for Wall would have been better than Blair last season.

You do have a way with words.

PS: Your comment about the Martell for McBob trade convinced me, too much salary/risk to take on.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXIX 

Post#1367 » by deneem4 » Sun Jul 12, 2015 2:29 pm

I hope Okc realizes they need to save some money and put mcgary on the block, il giv up a 1st and take extra salary for him...
Pay your beals....or its lights out!!!
Bron, Bosh, Wade is like Mike, Hakeem, barkley...3 top 5 picks from same draft
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXIX 

Post#1368 » by payitforward » Sun Jul 12, 2015 5:37 pm

nate33 wrote:
payitforward wrote:Lets start w/ Nikola Vucevic. But, no, in fact lets not. Lets please not find some other way to prove some unproveable point.

You got me there. Vucevic is definitely an exception.

I still maintain that it's extraordinarily rare. Typically, if a young player is traded 1 or 2 seasons into his contract, the player ends up being a journeyman. I'm thinking about guys like Thomas Robinson, Michael Beasley, Derrick Williams, Dion Waiters, Austin Rivers, MCW, Wesley Johnson, Cole Aldrich, Johnny Flynn, Terrence Williams, Hasheem Thabeet and Cole Aldrich. Indeed, pretty much every single lotto pick of the past 6 years who has been traded within the first 2 years has been a bust. MCW is the only possible exception because he hasn't quite proven that he's a bust just yet.

I guess the more that I think about it, the rule applies only to relatively high picks (including Vonleh). There are probably times when late 1st round picks just don't fit in very well on a certain team and the teams don't make developing the player a priority (because they're usually too busy winning). Those guys might be undervalued by current teams and could thrive in a change of scenery.

Two comments:

1. you could edit your first sentence to read "Typically, if a young player is traded 1 or 2 seasons into his contract, or even he isn't, the player ends up being a journeyman." The list you gave above of guys who were traded -- I bet you could give me another list of guys who weren't traded who didn't turn out well. Or, put slightly differently, this is a list of bad draft picks.

Of course, if you have a good player on a rookie contract you usually don't want to trade him. And vice versa, of course if you have a bad player on a rookie contract or *any* contract, you usually do want to trade him -- and rookie contracts, because they're cheap, are reasonably easy to fit into trades.

2. The problem isn't on the factual side, however, not really on the empirical side. I.e. neither of these statements implies -- in any sense of the word -- the obverse claim, i.e. that if a guy is traded in his first two years, that means (or makes it likely) he's a bad player.

If something is bubble gum, I don't want to swallow it. But if I don't want to swallow something, that doesn't mean it's bubble gum.

Again, to square this circle interminably (sorry): "the player is bad, so they want to trade him" about Cole Aldrich does not imply "they want to trade him, so the player is bad" about Vonleh.

And, in fact, Vonleh had an incredibly good single college year -- & in a lot of minutes too. He was also very productive (but in only 250 minutes) for Charlotte as a rookie -- plus, the kid is younger than Bobby Portis.

I'd love to have Noah Vonleh! I don't know what Portland gave for him, but I bet they're happy to have gotten him. It's true that Charlotte must have given up on him -- maybe it was the same genius who let Biyombo walk for nothing? :)
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXIX 

Post#1369 » by gambitx777 » Wed Jul 15, 2015 4:12 am

3 Team trade
Hornets: Webster.
Suns: Zeller, Blair.
Wiz: Markeiff Morris.
Some picks or Thomas will need to be added but not sure to who and what. It makes sense for every one. The Hornets are looking for vet wing depth. The suns need front court depth, because other than Len and Chandler, they are pretty thin, Plus they want to move Morris. We could use a roster spot to bring in a third big, like Famous, Sims or withey. Not to mention Morris would jump right in to the starting 4 spot for us.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXIX 

Post#1370 » by hands11 » Wed Jul 15, 2015 4:42 am

gambitx777 wrote:3 Team trade
Hornets: Webster.
Suns: Zeller, Blair.
Wiz: Markeiff Morris.
Some picks or Thomas will need to be added but not sure to who and what. It makes sense for every one. The Hornets are looking for vet wing depth. The suns need front court depth, because other than Len and Chandler, they are pretty thin, Plus they want to move Morris. We could use a roster spot to bring in a third big, like Famous, Sims or withey. Not to mention Morris would jump right in to the starting 4 spot for us.


Markieff Morris $8,000,000 $7,400,000 $8,000,000 $8,600,000
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXIX 

Post#1371 » by gambitx777 » Wed Jul 15, 2015 5:32 am

hands11 wrote:
gambitx777 wrote:3 Team trade
Hornets: Webster.
Suns: Zeller, Blair.
Wiz: Markeiff Morris.
Some picks or Thomas will need to be added but not sure to who and what. It makes sense for every one. The Hornets are looking for vet wing depth. The suns need front court depth, because other than Len and Chandler, they are pretty thin, Plus they want to move Morris. We could use a roster spot to bring in a third big, like Famous, Sims or withey. Not to mention Morris would jump right in to the starting 4 spot for us.


Markieff Morris $8,000,000 $7,400,000 $8,000,000 $8,600,000

Yes I know what Morris makes? You're point ? From my understanding. Taking Morris does not kill the KD2DC dream?
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXIX 

Post#1372 » by Ruzious » Wed Jul 15, 2015 5:51 am

With Boston picking up Perry Jones, they have too many bodies up front - Amir Johnson, Jerebko, Zeller, Sullinger, Olynyk, Mickey, and Jones. Crowder was actually useful as a small-ball 4 on occasion. Olynyk ended up the odd man out in the playoffs - getting a grand total of 1 point and 1 rebound combined in the last 2 games. Gotta figure he's available. And he's a legit stretch big who can hit 3's - as well as score inside. He's obviously got defensive issues, but... otherwize he wouldn't be available.

Or... just wait till their excess of players over 15 forces them to do something like cut Jordan Mickey.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXIX 

Post#1373 » by deneem4 » Wed Jul 15, 2015 10:59 am

Wish we could've got jones...he would be been a nice 4 for us
Pay your beals....or its lights out!!!
Bron, Bosh, Wade is like Mike, Hakeem, barkley...3 top 5 picks from same draft
mike, hakeem and Barkley on the same team!!!!
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXIX 

Post#1374 » by Dat2U » Wed Jul 15, 2015 10:59 am

hands11 wrote:
gambitx777 wrote:3 Team trade
Hornets: Webster.
Suns: Zeller, Blair.
Wiz: Markeiff Morris.
Some picks or Thomas will need to be added but not sure to who and what. It makes sense for every one. The Hornets are looking for vet wing depth. The suns need front court depth, because other than Len and Chandler, they are pretty thin, Plus they want to move Morris. We could use a roster spot to bring in a third big, like Famous, Sims or withey. Not to mention Morris would jump right in to the starting 4 spot for us.


Markieff Morris $8,000,000 $7,400,000 $8,000,000 $8,600,000


An absolute bargain contract - In a current market where teams are throwing around money like party favors. In no way does it stop us from pursuing Durant.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXIX 

Post#1375 » by nate33 » Wed Jul 15, 2015 1:03 pm

gambitx777 wrote:3 Team trade
Hornets: Webster.
Suns: Zeller, Blair.
Wiz: Markeiff Morris.
Some picks or Thomas will need to be added but not sure to who and what. It makes sense for every one. The Hornets are looking for vet wing depth. The suns need front court depth, because other than Len and Chandler, they are pretty thin, Plus they want to move Morris. We could use a roster spot to bring in a third big, like Famous, Sims or withey. Not to mention Morris would jump right in to the starting 4 spot for us.

:banghead:

Would you stop proposing trades that involve Webster being assigned actual positive trade value? It's NOT GOING TO HAPPEN! You can talk about Charlotte's need for a wing shooter all you want, but that's not going to change the fact that Webster is damaged goods until proven otherwise. He has negative trade value. You will have to attach a pick to him to get some other team to take his contract.

Charlotte is trading Cody Zeller for Martell Webster. Seriously, think that through for a moment.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXIX 

Post#1376 » by gtn130 » Wed Jul 15, 2015 3:40 pm

McRoberts for Webster is even more laughable.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXIX 

Post#1377 » by nate33 » Wed Jul 15, 2015 3:48 pm

gtn130 wrote:McRoberts for Webster is even more laughable.

There's logic to that from Miami's perspective because they get out of McRoberts' contract to make a play for Durant.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXIX 

Post#1378 » by mictic » Wed Jul 15, 2015 5:23 pm

You have to realize there's very little wiggle room for us to take on salary for next season and still be able to offer Durant a Max contract. If my calculations are right and we drop Humphries, Webster and Blair and include cap holds for our 1st round pick (assumed 20th) and minimum roster charges we have $48.5M of cap space. If we need to give Beal a max contract that eats away $20.9M leaving us with $27.6M for a Durant max offer ($25M). So if we add more than $3.1M in salary (the $2.6M of cap space plus one roster charge of $.5M) we can't afford Durant, however likely that scenario may be.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXIX 

Post#1379 » by gambitx777 » Wed Jul 15, 2015 6:54 pm

nate33 wrote:
gambitx777 wrote:3 Team trade
Hornets: Webster.
Suns: Zeller, Blair.
Wiz: Markeiff Morris.
Some picks or Thomas will need to be added but not sure to who and what. It makes sense for every one. The Hornets are looking for vet wing depth. The suns need front court depth, because other than Len and Chandler, they are pretty thin, Plus they want to move Morris. We could use a roster spot to bring in a third big, like Famous, Sims or withey. Not to mention Morris would jump right in to the starting 4 spot for us.

:banghead:

Would you stop proposing trades that involve Webster being assigned actual positive trade value? It's NOT GOING TO HAPPEN! You can talk about Charlotte's need for a wing shooter all you want, but that's not going to change the fact that Webster is damaged goods until proven otherwise. He has negative trade value. You will have to attach a pick to him to get some other team to take his contract.

Charlotte is trading Cody Zeller for Martell Webster. Seriously, think that through for a moment.

I just don't agree with you on that. Plus I did say a pick or Thomas would need to be added. It's not a bad trade for any team, I don;'t think the hornets value Zeller very highly, Plus they have Frank the Tank, and to be honest I'm not to opposed to spending some assets to get Morris, such as Thomas or a first, or a couple seconds (not that we have many left).
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXIX 

Post#1380 » by No-Man » Fri Jul 17, 2015 2:49 am

Webster for Crawford, that one is balanced, if you want to move Martell that badly

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