2020 Draft

[Shoe]

[quote="pcbothwel"][/quote]

Butler box outs could be described as violent. Very physical. I don't know if Vassell has the ability to set the tone like that. Who the best boxer out would be interesting to find. # of box outs per game would be an interesting stat, something the Wizards sorely lack.

[Ruzious]

Butler box outs could be described as violent. Very physical. I don't know if Vassell has the ability to set the tone like that. Who the best boxer out would be interesting to find. # of box outs per game would be an interesting stat, something the Wizards sorely lack.

Vassell's teammate, Patrick Williams, would probably be more like Butler.

[pcbothwel]

Butler box outs could be described as violent. Very physical. I don't know if Vassell has the ability to set the tone like that. Who the best boxer out would be interesting to find. # of box outs per game would be an interesting stat, something the Wizards sorely lack.

Vassell's teammate, Patrick Williams, would probably be more like Butler.

Fair enough... But go look at what Otto did when healthy and what Khris Middleton did this year.
I see Vassell as an Otto/Danny Green defender and a Middleton playmaker/scorer that ends up on an All-Star team a couple times.

He will probably not only be the BPA at 9, but the best fit on our team. That said, I dont think he gets past the NYK at 8.

[Ruzious]

Butler box outs could be described as violent. Very physical. I don't know if Vassell has the ability to set the tone like that. Who the best boxer out would be interesting to find. # of box outs per game would be an interesting stat, something the Wizards sorely lack.

Vassell's teammate, Patrick Williams, would probably be more like Butler.

Fair enough... But go look at what Otto did when healthy and what Khris Middleton did this year.
I see Vassell as an Otto/Danny Green defender and a Middleton playmaker/scorer that ends up on an All-Star team a couple times.

He will probably not only be the BPA at 9, but the best fit on our team. That said, I dont think he gets past the NYK at 8.

I've always compared him to Danny Green - so I agree with that part on D, but I think he's also like Green on offense - just a 3 point sniper - which is fine - but I don't see the Middleton part - though maybe FLaSt's offense wasn't conducive to showing that side of his game?

[payitforward]

On the numbers & highlights I can't see much reason to question Devin Vassell. He's a terrific talent -- terrific shooter & defender, smart on the court, looks like a hard worker out there.

Otto's an interesting, if maybe not all that close, comparison. His Sophomore numbers were even better than Vassell's -- largely b/c he got to the line more & was a bit better rebounder.

Otto's body gave out, so I suppose that some of the concern about Vassell being "frail" may come from the Otto comparison. But, of course, every player present risks of one kind or another.

If Vassell was built like Jimmy Butler he might be the #1 pick in the draft!

[Dat2U]

Otto was a shot creator in college. Operated out of the high post and dissected Big East defenses with his decision making and skill set. Middleton was a big time scorer before getting injured. I see nothing like that from Vassell who like Danny Green; excelled in an off the ball role as a shooter/defender. Its great he did those things well but were talking about a guy who was a passive role player in the ACC. I checked his game logs, was not impressed with ACC play at all. We complained that Otto didn't shoot enough, well this guy definitely won't score/shoot enough to our liking.

I'm thinking Vassell likely kicks around the league for a few years as Trenton Hassell type. Low volume shooter who may carve out a 15-20 minute role a night as a backup wing defender. I would aim higher.

[nate33]

Otto was a shot creator in college. Operated out of the high post and dissected Big East defenses with his decision making and skill set. Middleton was a big time scorer before getting injured. I see nothing like that from Vassell who like Danny Green; excelled in an off the ball role as a shooter/defender. Its great he did those things well but were talking about a guy who was a passive role player in the ACC. I checked his game logs, was not impressed with ACC play at all. We complained that Otto didn't shoot enough, well this guy definitely won't score/shoot enough to our liking.

I'm thinking Vassell likely kicks around the league for a few years as Trenton Hassell type. Low volume shooter who may carve out a 15-20 minute role a night as a backup wing defender. I would aim higher.

Statistically, Vassell looks quite a bit like Otto Porter (albeit with fewer FTA's) and way better than Middleton. Vassell handles the ball a little less, which shows in a slightly lower assist rate and FT rate, but his turnovers are also a lot lower. Vassell is a comparable dead-eye shooter to Otto and way better than Middleton. He actually averaged more made FG's per minute than Otto and almost as much as Middleton (on way better efficiency than Middleton). He edges out Porter in STOCKS and crushes Middleton. Porter is the best rebounder of the group, but Vassell is as good as Middleton there.

Vassell's conference numbers are actually better than his overall numbers, so there's no reason to believe that he is inflating his stats against scrubs.

http://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=devin-vassell--khris-middleton--otto-porter



At this point, I think I'm rooting for Vassell as our pick. He looks like he could be 95% of what Otto was, but available at #9 in a weak draft. He's thin like Otto, but his frame looks like it can pack on more heft than Otto ever could. Otto had such narrow hips and legs.

[nate33]

What's interesting about Otto Porter is that many of the things that helped him to stand out in college - his ball handling, passing and FT drawing ability, were things that he never utilized in the NBA. In the NBA, he was mostly just a ridiculously good spot up shooter, a competent help defender, and a very good rebounder for his position. He never did much with the ball in his hands.

[nate33]

Vassell's teammate, Patrick Williams, would probably be more like Butler.

Fair enough... But go look at what Otto did when healthy and what Khris Middleton did this year.
I see Vassell as an Otto/Danny Green defender and a Middleton playmaker/scorer that ends up on an All-Star team a couple times.

He will probably not only be the BPA at 9, but the best fit on our team. That said, I dont think he gets past the NYK at 8.

I've always compared him to Danny Green - so I agree with that part on D, but I think he's also like Green on offense - just a 3 point sniper - which is fine - but I don't see the Middleton part - though maybe FLaSt's offense wasn't conducive to showing that side of his game?

Vassell does a little more off the bounce than Green. Green literally can't do anything except spot up shoot. Vassell has a bit of a hesitation dribble that can freeze the defender so he can get his shot off, sort of like Kelly Oubre. He has a higher release than Green too, which allows him to shoot with a defender much closer to him.

I'm not projecting Vassell to be a shot creator or anything, but he might at least be able to attack a scrambling defense or a mismatch better than Green ever could.

[Ruzious]

And I'd point out that Middleton and Green were second round picks. Granted, they should have been picked higher, but they were exceptions in that they developed so well. Vassell being in their range as college players doesn't mean he should be a top 10 pick.

[Ruzious]

Fair enough... But go look at what Otto did when healthy and what Khris Middleton did this year.
I see Vassell as an Otto/Danny Green defender and a Middleton playmaker/scorer that ends up on an All-Star team a couple times.

He will probably not only be the BPA at 9, but the best fit on our team. That said, I dont think he gets past the NYK at 8.

I've always compared him to Danny Green - so I agree with that part on D, but I think he's also like Green on offense - just a 3 point sniper - which is fine - but I don't see the Middleton part - though maybe FLaSt's offense wasn't conducive to showing that side of his game?

Vassell does a little more off the bounce than Green. Green literally can't do anything except spot up shoot. Vassell has a bit of a hesitation dribble that can freeze the defender so he can get his shot off, sort of like Kelly Oubre. He has a higher release than Green too, which allows him to shoot with a defender much closer to him.

I'm not projecting Vassell to be a shot creator or anything, but he might at least be able to attack a scrambling defense or a mismatch better than Green ever could.

Your description of Green is exactly what I saw when I watched Vassell. I skimmed through at least a couple of Flast games just to watch Vassell, and it was frustrating because he was nearly invisible on offense most of the time. I don't see him as being a guy who's going to even try to beat people off the dribble - unless he was held back by Leonard Hamilton.

[dckingsfan]

So it "seems" the board would generally be good with either Vassell or Okongwu. It "seems" like one of the two will be there at 9.

[pcbothwel]

And I'd point out that Middleton and Green were second round picks. Granted, they should have been picked higher, but they were exceptions in that they developed so well. Vassell being in their range as college players doesn't mean he should be a top 10 pick.

huh... Im not projecting Vassell to be either player in college.
Middleton was a 2nd round pick because he regressed his Junior Year... Vassell as a sophomore is a MUCH better player than Middleton was as a Junior.

[payitforward]

Otto was a shot creator in college. Operated out of the high post and dissected Big East defenses with his decision making and skill set. Middleton was a big time scorer before getting injured. I see nothing like that from Vassell who like Danny Green; excelled in an off the ball role as a shooter/defender. Its great he did those things well but were talking about a guy who was a passive role player in the ACC. I checked his game logs, was not impressed with ACC play at all. We complained that Otto didn't shoot enough, well this guy definitely won't score/shoot enough to our liking.

I'm thinking Vassell likely kicks around the league for a few years as Trenton Hassell type. Low volume shooter who may carve out a 15-20 minute role a night as a backup wing defender. I would aim higher.

I am quite sure you've looked harder at Vassell than I have, & we should absolutely aim higher than your description of him! Nor was I suggesting that we draft him. I don't want to draft him; I want to trade down.

Hassell/Vassell -- you get points for that, Dat!

But... Trenton Hassell played in a far far weaker college conference than Vassell did, & he put numbers that weren't as good as Vassell's.

[payitforward]

So it "seems" the board would generally be good with either Vassell or Okongwu. It "seems" like one of the two will be there at 9.

No, not me.... I don't want to draft Devin Vassell @ #9. I want to trade down.

Okongwu, yes.

[Ruzious]

And I'd point out that Middleton and Green were second round picks. Granted, they should have been picked higher, but they were exceptions in that they developed so well. Vassell being in their range as college players doesn't mean he should be a top 10 pick.

huh... Im not projecting Vassell to be either player in college.
Middleton was a 2nd round pick because he regressed his Junior Year... Vassell as a sophomore is a MUCH better player than Middleton was as a Junior.

Why is it that people think I'm talking to them when I don't quote them?

[dckingsfan]

And I'd point out that Middleton and Green were second round picks. Granted, they should have been picked higher, but they were exceptions in that they developed so well. Vassell being in their range as college players doesn't mean he should be a top 10 pick.

huh... Im not projecting Vassell to be either player in college.
Middleton was a 2nd round pick because he regressed his Junior Year... Vassell as a sophomore is a MUCH better player than Middleton was as a Junior.

Why is it that people think I'm talking to them when I don't quote them?

What the hell, why did you say that - I am putting you on ignore.

[dckingsfan]

So it "seems" the board would generally be good with either Vassell or Okongwu. It "seems" like one of the two will be there at 9.

No, not me.... I don't want to draft Devin Vassell @ #9. I want to trade down.

Okongwu, yes.

Did you already say who would have to be at 9 to keep you from wanting to trade down? Asking for a friend.

[payitforward]

I think it's easy to take the Porter<>Vassell thing too far.

Otto was a better college player. Then, after missing his rookie season b/c of injuries, he was quite good as a 2d year player, better his 3d year, & really tremendous both his 4th & 5th years, when he was one of the most productive forwards in the league.

Probably not a good idea to get an idea in our heads of Vassell doing that. Not saying he won't, of course. But, still...

[payitforward]

huh... Im not projecting Vassell to be either player in college.
Middleton was a 2nd round pick because he regressed his Junior Year... Vassell as a sophomore is a MUCH better player than Middleton was as a Junior.

Why is it that people think I'm talking to them when I don't quote them?

What the hell, why did you say that - I am putting you on ignore.

That's it! I'm putting everyone on ignore -- including myself. Starting with myself in fact!