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Deni Avdija

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Do you like this pick?

Yes
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73%
No
21
16%
Don't care
14
11%
 
Total votes: 129

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Re: Deni Avdija 

Post#1361 » by tleikheen » Wed Sep 7, 2022 6:57 am

Turning point: Serbia were bothered by Israel's matchup zone, but still able to stay in front for most of the game. Their biggest lead was by18 points, however Deni Avdija decided to make things interesting.

With his scoring, passing and elite defense that saw him guard everybody from Vasilije Micic to Nikola Jokic, Israel went on an inspired run to reduce the gap to 65-63 in the fourth quarte


we still have guys looking at last years stats of a 20 yr old and thinking he hasnt shown enough yet to think he might get better
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Re: Deni Avdija 

Post#1362 » by doclinkin » Wed Sep 7, 2022 10:50 am

One thing key: Deni getting a reputation as an elite defender will tend to reduce the tickytack fouls he picks up. If we can win then he will also get the benefit of the doubt even more.
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Re: Deni Avdija 

Post#1363 » by AFM » Wed Sep 7, 2022 11:59 am

Doc you spitting facts right now
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Re: Deni Avdija 

Post#1364 » by barelyawake » Wed Sep 7, 2022 12:50 pm

doclinkin wrote:One thing key: Deni getting a reputation as an elite defender will tend to reduce the tickytack fouls he picks up. If we can win then he will also tend to get the benefit of the doubt.

Yup. It’s all about the refs and reputation. Why Delon and Taj are so important. Reason why we could use another world class defender (not Taj, Delon, Davis or Deni, but another vet defensive leader) to allow us to play the way you need to in playoff situations. I’ll take reputation with the refs over stats and the eye test, in fourth-quarter playoff basketball.
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Re: Deni Avdija 

Post#1365 » by doclinkin » Wed Sep 7, 2022 1:46 pm

barelyawake wrote:
doclinkin wrote:One thing key: Deni getting a reputation as an elite defender will tend to reduce the tickytack fouls he picks up. If we can win then he will also tend to get the benefit of the doubt.

Yup. It’s all about the refs and reputation. Why Delon and Taj are so important. Reason why we could use another world class defender (not Taj, Delon, Davis or Deni, but another vet defensive leader) to allow us to play the way you need to in playoff situations. I’ll take reputation with the refs over stats and the eye test, in fourth-quarter playoff basketball.


I think we need a rebounder and positional defender who can deliver 6 hard fouls to the Giannis and Embiid types, but I am cognizant that we have no reason to think about playoff anything right now. Especially since I am in the tank tank for Wembanyama who looks to be a Unicorn among Unicorns.
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Re: Deni Avdija 

Post#1366 » by keynote » Wed Sep 7, 2022 2:19 pm

Wizraeli wrote:Great game by Deni today against the very strong Serbia, 14 pts, 6 reb, 5 ast, 1 blk while the Serbian defense really targeted him(what's new?)


I'll also note that Deni repeatedly set his teammates up for wide open shots, only to have them miss. He could have reached double digit assists if his teammates had been more accurate from distance.
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Re: Deni Avdija 

Post#1367 » by payitforward » Wed Sep 7, 2022 3:44 pm

tleikheen wrote:
Turning point: Serbia were bothered by Israel's matchup zone, but still able to stay in front for most of the game. Their biggest lead was by18 points, however Deni Avdija decided to make things interesting.

With his scoring, passing and elite defense that saw him guard everybody from Vasilije Micic to Nikola Jokic, Israel went on an inspired run to reduce the gap to 65-63 in the fourth quarte

we still have guys looking at last years stats of a 20 yr old and thinking he hasnt shown enough yet to think he might get better

Well... maybe a little, but I'd say most folks here see how quickly he's developing.

Biggest shadow being cast over him is by some people who wanted us to nab Halliburton.

Of course the truth is that they were right! He was the optimal pick. But, since he was the optimal pick over every single one of the 11 guys taken before him -- w/ the possible exception of Lamelo Ball -- it's not really possible to use him to criticize the pick of Deni! :)
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Re: Deni Avdija 

Post#1368 » by tleikheen » Wed Sep 7, 2022 9:32 pm

Big game for Deni tomorrow ....... Isreal needs to the Czecks in Prague to advance to the round of 16. The winner advances . This isn't the NBA playoffs but both teams wear the colors of their country and for the Pride of their countries .
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Re: Deni Avdija 

Post#1369 » by Runner300 » Thu Sep 8, 2022 11:58 am

In NBA it will be harder for Deni to demonstrate his playmaking.
He can initiate a play, make the first pass, but then he never gets the ball back.
He can try to attack a defender then make a nice dish - but nobody will bother
to make a screen (maybe a rookie, if he yells at him), and nobody will bother to cut to paint to receive the assist.
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Re: Deni Avdija 

Post#1370 » by Zonkerbl » Thu Sep 8, 2022 12:58 pm

I think at this stage in his career Deni needs a leader on the floor that will encourage the entire time to commit to defense rather than starting a team wide contract bitchfest. Doesn't matter how good you are individually if everyone else on the team has given up - your effort is just going to be wasted, you're going to get posterized, you're going to be demoralized and not want to try hard anymore. I'm guessing management feels Brad will whine less now that he has a contract but the opportunity to prove your value as a leader was last year and Brad failed miserably.

I predict Deni will look horrible this year defensively, again, he'll get traded for pennies on the dollar to a team with a true commitment to defense where he will become a defensive all star.
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Re: Deni Avdija 

Post#1371 » by doclinkin » Thu Sep 8, 2022 1:04 pm

Runner300 wrote:In NBA it will be harder for Deni to demonstrate his playmaking.
He can initiate a play, make the first pass, but then he never gets the ball back.
He can try to attack a defender then make a nice dish - but nobody will bother
to make a screen (maybe a rookie, if he yells at him), and nobody will bother to cut to paint to receive the assist.


Reading your past posts, I get the feeling you are frustrated with NBA ball compared to the European/FIBA game. What team(s) do you follow who exemplify the style of play you like to see?

I think our GM also appreciates Euro ball and I get the sense Unseld would like to implement a system with more ball and player movement. I agree that in the NBA we see more me-first style of play, feeding the ball to the star and everyone else playing off of that. Here I think we only have one star (Porzingis) but even he would benefit by more movement around him.

I think where Deni has a challenge is that we have a rack of players fighting for the 2 forwards spots. None of whom has gotten enough separation to show that they are better than any others. Deni could help his own case by making his shots when he does have the opportunity. His defense is the one area where he clearly has shown himself better. Not just better than his teammates, but better than most players in the league at his position. But: he's shooting 43% overall. 31% from 3. And has only shown minuscule improvement from rookie to 2nd year. It's tough to increase his role when most of shots end up as a miss. And he doesn't make up for it at the line, since he only shoots one free throw a game. Deni is a smart player, he knows unless he has a clear path to the basket, the better play right now is for someone else to take the shot.

The one area that is hopeful in this regard is his FT shooting percentage. From 64% to 75% is a nice jump. That tends to be the profile of a grinder, a player who will put in the work in the offseason to improve, a player whose confidence is growing. Improving FT% often foreshadows improved shooting from outside. Confidence and the improved shot he is showing in Eurobasket competition will help a ton. I like that he is showing the footwork to get himself open to take the clutch shots. In the NBA the vast majority of his 3pt shots were assisted. Like over 90%. That means if Deni has the ball outside, you don't have to guard him. He's not taking that shot unless he is wide open and the ball finds him. If his Euro play carries over, scouts will have to account for that in the pregame write-up, his teammates won't be doubled, etc. Or else he hits the shot. Many of the shots he is taking in Euro play will still be available to him for a while until the NBA scouts have to adjust. Some of those 3pt shots in Eurobasket are long 2pt jumpers in the NBA, but not all. His step back needs a half foot more travel to get behind the line and get separation, but that is do-able. The foundation looks good. WIth reps comes confidence.

I'm liking Deni's chances for a the 3rd year jump that many young players experience. Deni's development has been stunted by various factors (world wide pandemic, injury, declining HOFer who demanded high usage, etc). But the extended summer competition here is better than anything else he could have done to catch up to speed. If any of this carries over, the Deni we see here is a starting SF in this league. If it translated even 70% then this version of Deni is probably our 2nd best player.
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Re: Deni Avdija 

Post#1372 » by doclinkin » Thu Sep 8, 2022 1:14 pm

Zonkerbl wrote:I think at this stage in his career Deni needs a leader on the floor that will encourage the entire time to commit to defense rather than starting a team wide contract bitchfest. Doesn't matter how good you are individually if everyone else on the team has given up - your effort is just going to be wasted, you're going to get posterized, you're going to be demoralized and not want to try hard anymore. I'm guessing management feels Brad will whine less now that he has a contract but the opportunity to prove your value as a leader was last year and Brad failed miserably.

I predict Deni will look horrible this year defensively, again,


Deni looking horrible





This year is not last year. Our stat and data nerds in the front office love Deni. Deni with a smidgen more offensive game will be hard to keep off the floor. Coaches love his defense and ball-moving ability. He is developing the one thing he needs to earn more PT: a trustworthy shot, and willingess to call his own number when that is the right play.
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Re: Deni Avdija 

Post#1373 » by Zonkerbl » Thu Sep 8, 2022 1:26 pm

Gotta admit I stopped watching after the team stopped playing team defense and fell below .500
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Re: Deni Avdija 

Post#1374 » by tleikheen » Thu Sep 8, 2022 8:31 pm

Avidja scored in the 20's ,ripped down 15 rebounds in a game ,delivered 11 dimes and played elite defense throughout his 5 games. This was better than pre season .These were games in front of rabid fans and had the attn of the European continent and he starred !
I like Kuzma alot but I can see Deni taking over the SF position and Hachimura the PF position if Kispert becomes a 40 per cent 3 pt shooter. Both Deni and Kuz like to bring the ball up but and they have alot of the same abilities but Deni can be a lockdown defender that Kuz will never be. Rui with minutes can be a 18-21 ppg scorer. playing with Deni and KP .
But for now Deni might be making Wil Barton 's minutes shrink . Hopefully.
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Re: Deni Avdija 

Post#1375 » by doclinkin » Thu Sep 8, 2022 8:38 pm

Zonkerbl wrote:Gotta admit I stopped watching after the team stopped playing team defense and fell below .500


Then you missed some decent chemistry when Porzingis joined the team.







This team has some pieces. It's all on the coach to put it together, but there are chances that this team will prove a tough out on any given night against any team. Especially if our outside shooters get hot around KPz. This year we have a rack of players shooting at least average (36%) or better:

Gill -- 3FG .538 (okay fine, on only 26 attempts, but still)
Rui --.447
Morris -- .395
Taj Gibson -- .395 (38 attempts)
Kispert -- .386 after the all-star break, steadily improving all year
Wright -- .379
Porzingis -- .367 with the Wizards
Barton -- .365
Kyle Kuzma -- always streaky, had 24 games last year where he shot .375 or better. Including one game where he went 8 for 11.

--even prospect Makur Maker hit .361 (in the Aussie League)


That's enough depth of shooting to keep teams honest. And enough targets for playmakers to hit when the Defense overloads to stop KP.
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Re: Deni Avdija 

Post#1376 » by DCZards » Thu Sep 8, 2022 9:37 pm

Runner300 wrote:In NBA it will be harder for Deni to demonstrate his playmaking.
He can initiate a play, make the first pass, but then he never gets the ball back.
He can try to attack a defender then make a nice dish - but nobody will bother
to make a screen (maybe a rookie, if he yells at him), and nobody will bother to cut to paint to receive the assist.

Unlike in the Euroleague, in the NBA Deni will be on the court with other NBA players. So, yes, he will get the ball less because there will be players on the court with him who are as good—or better than Deni—at initiating the offense.
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Re: Deni Avdija 

Post#1377 » by Pistol King » Fri Sep 9, 2022 1:37 pm

Some of his passes from yesterday's game:

https://streamable.com/3y21a4

It really seems he's getting better and better with the ball in his hands. If this is the result of only a 2-3 weeks of work with Drew Hanlen, I can't wait to see the end product a few years from now.
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Re: Deni Avdija 

Post#1378 » by Zonkerbl » Fri Sep 9, 2022 2:45 pm

Wait was bball phenom Jan Vesely on that czech team?
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Re: Deni Avdija 

Post#1379 » by doclinkin » Fri Sep 9, 2022 2:49 pm

Pistol King wrote:Some of his passes from yesterday's game:

https://streamable.com/3y21a4

It really seems he's getting better and better with the ball in his hands. If this is the result of only a 2-3 weeks of work with Drew Hanlen, I can't wait to see the end product a few years from now.



That is a legit handle. If he keeps showing a reliable outside shot you could pencil him in at 1-4, depending on the rest of the line-up.

But yeah they shut him down. 12 pts on 5-16 shooting, 1/7 from 3. Nice that he put in work as best he could otherwise: 11 dimes, 8 boards, 1 steal, 1 block against only 2 TOs and 0 fouls. 11:2 is a stellar Ast/TO ratio, especially as the focal point of the defense.

Still the game plan to take him out of the offense clearly worked.

https://www.fiba.basketball/eurobasket/2022/game/0809/Czech-Republic-Israel#tab=boxscore

LOL Satoransky with a nearly identical line but better shooting:

14 pts, 5 for 11 (3 of 4 from 3), 11 asts, 8 boards. 2 steals. But 5 TOs.

Of course Jan Veseley would play well against any Wizards player: 23 pts on 7/10 shooting, 5 assists even, :nonono:
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Re: Deni Avdija 

Post#1380 » by Zonkerbl » Fri Sep 9, 2022 3:16 pm

doclinkin wrote:
Pistol King wrote:Some of his passes from yesterday's game:

https://streamable.com/3y21a4

It really seems he's getting better and better with the ball in his hands. If this is the result of only a 2-3 weeks of work with Drew Hanlen, I can't wait to see the end product a few years from now.



That is a legit handle. If he keeps showing a reliable outside shot you could pencil him in at 1-4, depending on the rest of the line-up.

But yeah they shut him down. 12 pts on 5-16 shooting, 1/7 from 3. Nice that he put in work as best he could otherwise: 11 dimes, 8 boards, 1 steal, 1 block against only 2 TOs and 0 fouls. 11:2 is a stellar Ast/TO ratio, especially as the focal point of the defense.

Still the game plan to take him out of the offense clearly worked.

https://www.fiba.basketball/eurobasket/2022/game/0809/Czech-Republic-Israel#tab=boxscore

LOL Satoransky with a nearly identical line but better shooting:

14 pts, 5 for 11 (3 of 4 from 3), 11 asts, 8 boards. 2 steals. But 5 TOs.

Of course Jan Veseley would play well against any Wizards player: 23 pts on 7/10 shooting, 5 assists even, :nonono:


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