Political Roundtable Part XXXIII

[closg00]

…and so it begins, Bernie is right of-course

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[dobrojim]

Worried about my daughter who is unemployed right now. Depending on how fiercely they pursue revoking Obamacare she may end up with a gap in coverage and be uninsurable for her chronic conditions for the rest of her life.

Oh but Republicans aren't evil, no they're great upstanding people

I'm in the same boat Zonk.

I have a 27 yo trans son who relies on ACA for health insurance. It's easy to imagine
that full GOP control will lead to a diminishment of his coverage esp his hormones.

I feel pretty stupid for having had any optimism. VA did okay but margins there as they were
lower nationwide which led directly to losses which had been wins in '20.

Hopefully the dems will bounce back in the midterms. That said, I no longer trust
my political judgement/evaluation. Maybe I'm overreacting. But I expect a lot of damage
in the next 2 years at a minimum.

The Iowa polling had lots of folks thinking hopefully.

[pancakes3]

I can’t wait to see Republicans govern with absolute control, I bet they eliminate the 60 vote threshold

getting rid of the filibuster would actually be a significant silver lining

[gambitx777]

I hate this thread. Politically I believe in compromise if at all possible over winning some kind of moral argument because we all have to share this country and we should be able to live in it together in peace.

That's all I will say.

Also can we take a minute to appreciate that Royce White was pretty close to being a U.S. senator this morning. That's pretty wild.

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[Kanyewest]

I hate this thread. Politically I believe in compromise if at all possible over winning some kind of moral argument because we all have to share this country and we should be able to live in it together in peace.

That's all I will say.

Also can we take a minute to appreciate that Royce White was pretty close to being a U.S. senator this morning. That's pretty wild.

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Royce White lost by 16 points- so not really close.

[closg00]

I can’t wait to see Republicans govern with absolute control, I bet they eliminate the 60 vote threshold

getting rid of the filibuster would actually be a significant silver lining

Why, Mitch fought to keep it, why would they do-away with it now?

[Pointgod]

Think Shapiro would have made a difference?

Maybe in Pennsylvania, but overall, I don't think so. Harris had a much harder job to do. She entered the game down three touchdowns. The Democratic Party needs to do some soul-searching rather than simply blame Biden or Harris. Or they can just say behind closed doors as at least one person in this thread has done that half of the country is evil, racist/sexist/transphobic/ and irredeemable.

Benjammin genuine questions for you. Can you agree that someone who is a convicted criminal, a rapist, conman and attempted a coup after losing the last election should never be President? Just ignore the name Trump. Can you at least agree on that?

Also why are you so dismissive that Trump voters are more racist/sexist and transphobic than let’s say Harris supporters? They are the ones who ran against DEI, claimed Kamala Harris slept her way to her position, they ran exclusively against trans kids in sports. Even if that’s not their only motivation, why is it hard to admit that this could be a motivator? I’m genuinely curious if you believe that these things don’t factor into Trump support.

[Pointgod]

I can’t wait to see Republicans govern with absolute control, I bet they eliminate the 60 vote threshold

getting rid of the filibuster would actually be a significant silver lining

Not it wouldn’t. Nuking the filibuster is only effective to whoever uses it first. They use it to pack the courts, national abortion ban, kick out Legal immigrants, Muslim ban part 2 and all the other depraved **** that’s thought up in Republican think tanks.

[Pointgod]

Fine with me.

This is what the country wants...cool.

I hope Trump/Musk fulfill ALL of their promises.

Yeah no crying, no protesting, no saying how everything is rigged and unfair for Republicans. Literally voters had one job to stop this with their votes and completely whiffed. Republicans told everyone every hateful and spiteful thing they’d do and guess what when you lie, cheat and steal without voters holding you accountable you get to do want you want.

Yep.

I was upset at first but I'm strangely at peace now.

I've just come to conclusion that a significant number of my fellow citizens are accepting of sexism, racism etc.

I'm just going to worry about my friends, family and like-minded people.


I've been looking at moving abroad for almost a year now.

Maybe it's time to put those plans motion.

Can’t say I blame you. Worry about yourself and your family first. Too many Americans voting for Trump or sitting just to see other people suffer.

[Pointgod]

Worried about my daughter who is unemployed right now. Depending on how fiercely they pursue revoking Obamacare she may end up with a gap in coverage and be uninsurable for her chronic conditions for the rest of her life.

Oh but Republicans aren't evil, no they're great upstanding people

I'm in the same boat Zonk.

I have a 27 yo trans son who relies on ACA for health insurance. It's easy to imagine
that full GOP control will lead to a diminishment of his coverage esp his hormones.

I feel pretty stupid for having had any optimism. VA did okay but margins there as they were
lower nationwide which led directly to losses which had been wins in '20.

Hopefully the dems will bounce back in the midterms. That said, I no longer trust
my political judgement/evaluation. Maybe I'm overreacting. But I expect a lot of damage
in the next 2 years at a minimum.

The Iowa polling had lots of folks thinking hopefully.

Sorry dobrojim. It’s infuriating, your son is just trying to live his life, not hurting anyone and is the target of gross policies and a warped ideology. I genuinely hope you and your family are okay.

[Pointgod]

Worried about my daughter who is unemployed right now. Depending on how fiercely they pursue revoking Obamacare she may end up with a gap in coverage and be uninsurable for her chronic conditions for the rest of her life.

Oh but Republicans aren't evil, no they're great upstanding people

Sorry to hear how this is affecting your family Zonks. It’s crazy that people don’t think things through when they vote or choose to sit out. Hope you and your family make it out okay.

[doclinkin]

I will say I genuinely like and respect you people in this thread. Even those I disagree with. We have to get better at finding the We in this country. I'm tired of being either weary of people or wary of them. Got to be a way to do better.

The thing that always stuns me is that in a world where a goofy meme can reach millions of people in a day, we haven't yet found a leader or a voice that can convince us all to be fxcking better. Kinder. More thoughtful. That we are all in this together. An MLK or a digital messiah of some kind.

Like I bet I can't stand half the Commanders fans in the stadium, but I can cheer like an idiot for the QB. There are those whose talent and humanity help us transcend what we can't understand and draw us together.

Instead we get an anti-MLK who is really only good at spreading hate and dysfunction. It's baffling. Feels to me like we are overdue for a leader. Or a movement.

[closg00]

Worried about my daughter who is unemployed right now. Depending on how fiercely they pursue revoking Obamacare she may end up with a gap in coverage and be uninsurable for her chronic conditions for the rest of her life.

Oh but Republicans aren't evil, no they're great upstanding people

I'm in the same boat Zonk.

I have a 27 yo trans son who relies on ACA for health insurance. It's easy to imagine
that full GOP control will lead to a diminishment of his coverage esp his hormones.

I feel pretty stupid for having had any optimism. VA did okay but margins there as they were
lower nationwide which led directly to losses which had been wins in '20.

Hopefully the dems will bounce back in the midterms. That said, I no longer trust
my political judgement/evaluation. Maybe I'm overreacting. But I expect a lot of damage
in the next 2 years at a minimum.

The Iowa polling had lots of folks thinking hopefully.

Take care guys, I hope your family members will not be impacted.

[Benjammin]

Think Shapiro would have made a difference?

Maybe in Pennsylvania, but overall, I don't think so. Harris had a much harder job to do. She entered the game down three touchdowns. The Democratic Party needs to do some soul-searching rather than simply blame Biden or Harris. Or they can just say behind closed doors as at least one person in this thread has done that half of the country is evil, racist/sexist/transphobic/ and irredeemable.

Benjammin genuine questions for you. Can you agree that someone who is a convicted criminal, a rapist, conman and attempted a coup after losing the last election should never be President? Just ignore the name Trump. Can you at least agree on that?

Also why are you so dismissive that Trump voters are more racist/sexist and transphobic than let’s say Harris supporters? They are the ones who ran against DEI, claimed Kamala Harris slept her way to her position, they ran exclusively against trans kids in sports. Even if that’s not their only motivation, why is it hard to admit that this could be a motivator? I’m genuinely curious if you believe that these things don’t factor into Trump support.

I'm not being clear. I've voted against Trump three times. I would never vote for him. I wasn't saying that Trump supporters were that way but some in this thread have characterized them that way.

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[Wizardspride]

Maybe in Pennsylvania, but overall, I don't think so. Harris had a much harder job to do. She entered the game down three touchdowns. The Democratic Party needs to do some soul-searching rather than simply blame Biden or Harris. Or they can just say behind closed doors as at least one person in this thread has done that half of the country is evil, racist/sexist/transphobic/ and irredeemable.

Benjammin genuine questions for you. Can you agree that someone who is a convicted criminal, a rapist, conman and attempted a coup after losing the last election should never be President? Just ignore the name Trump. Can you at least agree on that?

Also why are you so dismissive that Trump voters are more racist/sexist and transphobic than let’s say Harris supporters? They are the ones who ran against DEI, claimed Kamala Harris slept her way to her position, they ran exclusively against trans kids in sports. Even if that’s not their only motivation, why is it hard to admit that this could be a motivator? I’m genuinely curious if you believe that these things don’t factor into Trump support.

I'm not being clear. I've voted against Trump three times. I would never vote for him. I wasn't saying that Trump supporters were that way but some in this thread have characterized them that way.

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I believe he's asking why you believe that's a false characterization?

[dobrojim]

I expect they (Maggats) will have no effective answers to any real or perceived problems so they will focus on making life
miserable for any one (or group) they can 'other' in order to distract their voters from the fact they will be almost certainly
doing a $hitty job dealing with actual problems that have complicated solutions. POCs, LGBTQ's, non white foreigners...
non-christians, non English speakers...I'm SMH at the latino men who think they'll be safe. Maybe they never heard
the mini story (from Nazi Germany) about first they came for the XXX and since I wasn't one of those, I didn't speak up.

PS - thanks to all for your words of support

[Benjammin]

Benjammin genuine questions for you. Can you agree that someone who is a convicted criminal, a rapist, conman and attempted a coup after losing the last election should never be President? Just ignore the name Trump. Can you at least agree on that?

Also why are you so dismissive that Trump voters are more racist/sexist and transphobic than let’s say Harris supporters? They are the ones who ran against DEI, claimed Kamala Harris slept her way to her position, they ran exclusively against trans kids in sports. Even if that’s not their only motivation, why is it hard to admit that this could be a motivator? I’m genuinely curious if you believe that these things don’t factor into Trump support.

I'm not being clear. I've voted against Trump three times. I would never vote for him. I wasn't saying that Trump supporters were that way but some in this thread have characterized them that way.

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I believe he's asking why you believe that's a false characterization?

Thanks. First, I choose not to believe that half the country is that way. Secondly, Trump made significant gains with African-American men, Latinos, etc. Third, it obviates any need for the Democratic party to recognize that it is seen as catering to a smaller and smaller subset of the United States.

[Benjammin]

Van Jones gets it: “If progressives have a politics that says all white people are racist, all men are toxic, and all billionaires are evil it’s kinda hard to keep them on your side. If you're chasing people out of the party, you can't be mad when they leave.”

[Zonkerbl]

I'm not being clear. I've voted against Trump three times. I would never vote for him. I wasn't saying that Trump supporters were that way but some in this thread have characterized them that way.

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I believe he's asking why you believe that's a false characterization?

Thanks. First, I choose not to believe that half the country is that way. Secondly, Trump made significant gains with African-American men, Latinos, etc. Third, it obviates any need for the Democratic party to recognize that it is seen as catering to a smaller and smaller subset of the United States.

Well, that's your first problem, not understanding the difference between an explanation and an excuse. Being angry *explains* why you made an evil choice, but it does not *excuse* it. Half the *voters* have *chosen* evil, which is inexcusable. They may have what they believe to be very good reasons for choosing evil, but they are ultimately responsible for it. Decent people are not responsible for the choices of other people - their only responsibility is to choose to be decent. As a favor, I am pointing out choices that are evil, to at least provide an opportunity for people to make different choices.

Furthermore, being angry is a *terrible* excuse to make an evil choice. I had some legal troubles stemming from my anger issues earlier in life, and they sent me to an anger management person, and I took responsibility for my own actions and took steps to reduce the stress that was causing me to get angry. Anger is not something that is done to you from the outside. Anger is something you ultimately *choose.* So that is another bad choice.

Further furthermore, being angry because you have chosen to watch Fox News (or whatever) where they feed you excuses to be angry and also make suggestions for evil choices you might therefore make is also a *choice*.

Deep down inside there may be a germ of truth for your anger - after all, the Republicans have been actively fostering conditions to make poor people angry at each other for decades now. But anger at immigrants is illegitimate anger. I don't accept choosing to blame other poor people for your problems under any circumstances. Anger at losing a loved one to an opioid overdose is a valid reason to be angry. I've lost a number of my childhood friends to basically poverty and it infuriates me. But I know that the other poor people around me aren't responsible for the poverty in southwest Ohio. The Republicans are.

Everyone who has allowed the lies of the radical right to poison their mind enough to believe that they have legitimate reasons to be angry enough to choose evil - that is an evil choice.

Ok, so that's one clarification I'll concede to you, in a show of good faith. I try to be careful to distinguish between labeling choices as bad vs labeling people as bad. Technically speaking people who voted for Trump made an evil choice. But it's a thin line - what made you so easily manipulated? A deep down desire to be evil, maybe? There must be something fundamentally wrong with you to fall for right wing lies so easily. If you are a trump supporter, you are definitely not trustworthy and not someone I want to spend any time around. You're not safe.

[Benjammin]

I appreciate your response. I do understand the difference between explanations and excuses. Often, they are in the eye of the beholder. I have explanations and people I disagree with have excuses. Therapists will frequently ask clients some iteration of this question: "How is that working out for you?" So, how is seeing half the country as evil working out for you? In management there is an axiom that the system is perfectly designed for the results your are getting. If you are happy with the results, then just keep doing what you're doing.