Official Countdown to Firing"NoLowPostOffense"Grunfeld

[JonathanJoseph]

I know in 2005 and 2008 EG wasn't planning on conducting a full blown rebuild program. Nor could have have imagined that he'd land the No. 1 pick in the draft with the best PG prospect of the decade available, so I'm not really giving props to EG. As they say, sometime better to be lucky than good, BUT drafting young, raw, talented bigs first and then acquiring the phenominally talented guards is the proper way to rebuild. Andray Blatche was a total gamble who paid off and has really come into his own at 23, but it took 5 years. JaVale is as talented of a big man that you'll find; is still raw, but he's had two years of NBA seasoning to develop. If he can show some sort of pulse defensively the Wiz front line will be prime for a huge breakout this year. It's nearly impossible to rebuild the other way around. Just ask the Hornets. They have Chris Paul, but don't have time to develop bigs. EG's draft strategy of swinging for the fences on bigs seems to be working, even if there was a lot of luck involved.

Sorry, but trying to credit Grunfeld's successes to his being lucky is just not reasonable.

The amount of bad luck the Wizards franchise has had during Grunfeld's tenure is epic and far outweighs any "good luck" that he might have benefited from.

[Dat2U]

I know in 2005 and 2008 EG wasn't planning on conducting a full blown rebuild program. Nor could have have imagined that he'd land the No. 1 pick in the draft with the best PG prospect of the decade available, so I'm not really giving props to EG. As they say, sometime better to be lucky than good, BUT drafting young, raw, talented bigs first and then acquiring the phenominally talented guards is the proper way to rebuild. Andray Blatche was a total gamble who paid off and has really come into his own at 23, but it took 5 years. JaVale is as talented of a big man that you'll find; is still raw, but he's had two years of NBA seasoning to develop. If he can show some sort of pulse defensively the Wiz front line will be prime for a huge breakout this year. It's nearly impossible to rebuild the other way around. Just ask the Hornets. They have Chris Paul, but don't have time to develop bigs. EG's draft strategy of swinging for the fences on bigs seems to be working, even if there was a lot of luck involved.

Sorry, but trying to credit Grunfeld's successes to his being lucky is just not reasonable.

The amount of bad luck the Wizards franchise has had during Grunfeld's tenure is epic and far outweighs any "good luck" that he might have benefited from.

My God, you & Lyrical must live in some parallel universe where luck & stupidity are celebrated and praised.

Was it bad luck that Ernie re-signed Gil to an $111 million dollar deal FULLY KNOWING Gil hadn't yet recovered from his original injury???

Was it bad luck that Ernie dumped the 5th pick last year for one year rentals of Mike Miller & Randy Foye?

Was it bad luck that Ernie instilled a culture of short on professionalism and long on entitlement with the organization's preferential treatment of its stars?

[closg00]

^^^^^^

Bendan Haywood on AM 980 talking about how the Mavs are managed vs Wizard management.

Kevin Sheehan asked if it were obvious that things were being handled more professionally there.

"Um, yeah, it was very obvious," Haywood said. "It was very obvious. They had established the way things were done around there, and you were forced to basically adhere to a certain standard. We came from D.C., and that wasn't always enforced. In Dallas, it was something totally different, and we liked it. Just look at the structure, how things were done, the no-nonsense attitude and just how everybody got along and the family atmosphere. There was no agendas. That was something totally different for us."

Rico and a few others, are trying to bask in the glow of our #1 pick to white-wash Ernie Grunfeld's historical record and we won't let them

[Tyrone Messby]

I fear EG is going to be kept just like McPhee was kept. And McPhee continues to ignore the veteran rugged d-man the Caps have desperately needed for so long. Hopefully he addresses that need FINALLY this offseason, but ugh, I don't want EG managing.

[closg00]

I fear EG is going to be kept just like McPhee was kept. And McPhee continues to ignore the veteran rugged d-man the Caps have desperately needed for so long. Hopefully he addresses that need FINALLY this offseason, but ugh, I don't want EG managing.

I have accepted that EG won't be fired. However, we have should not lay-down silently. Let's see what Ernie does in the draft and FA. If he pulls more lame FA signings like Orberto and Boykins, and if he doesn't send the new rookies to the D-League (if appropriate), then it's-on.

[Hoopalotta]

I find the idea that those who have been critical of Ernie are going to have to 'eat crow' rather ludicrous. I was one of the few who actually didn't mind the Dallas trade at the time as I didn't want to resign Haywood, was sick of Butler, wanted to go all in on youth and grudgingly accepted that the market sucked for teams selling 'former all stars'.

But that deal hardly exonerated Ernie as some degree of foresight would have had Butler dealt over the summer at much higher value (and we're not talking epic vision here; sounds like the organization knew that Butler and Gil had problems together amongst other things).

Anyway, that's just one point....

I'm ready to move on and think Ernie will do alright so long as Ted is laying down the strategic mandates in a stern manner. So long as Ted sticks to his guns on how things are going to be done and NOT done, we should be alright. In other words, we're either going to be patient or we're going to get Bron and we're not going to compromise with some wobbly footing in betwixt that involves Kyle Korver and $5 million dollars a year.

But we've got a consensus 1st, a pair of late round picks and job security with no shortsighted mandates as to our record next year, so we're pretty well in a position that plays right into Ernie's capabilities.

Despite my tongue in cheeky bit before about being worried of free agents, I'm actually not so much, mostly based on what Ted has said.

However, none of that means that either of the two hardline Ernie fans are in position to start cock-strutting about in 'I-told-you-so' mode.

(OK, in fairness, Lyrical keeps his sense of humor about it all)

[Hoopalotta]

There's this Ernie audio interview over on ESPN:

http://espn.go.com/nba/draft

(middle of the page, below the draft tracker)

Many have probably at least heard quotes from it if not already listened, but I found it mostly encouraging.

(I like the steady reluctance on free agency, but I was worried when he used the plural 'guys' when talking about 'looking around'. OK, I'm reading too much into it)

[montestewart]

I'll take it a step further than I did with my last post. Isn't it time to start talking about what a GREAT job Ernie Grunfeld has done?

Everyone was quick to blame the results on Grunfeld despite the franchise being the victim of terrible luck (injuries, Caron's mental implosion, guns in the locker room) so now isn't the opposite true?

The results are now in and the midseason trades have turned out to be another HUGE win for Grunfeld. Grunfeld saved Pollin/Leonsis about $8-$10M in cash in salaries/luxury tax payments in the short term, opened up $15M in cap space for this season, got rid of Butler and Jamison who have now both been exposed as overrated and who both hurt their teams, got McGee/Blatche a ton of playing time and got the Wizards in position to draft John Wall and another late 1st round draft pick.

So is anyone still complaining that the Wizards didn't have Brendan Haywood for the last meaningless 30 games?

The Wizards are looking at Wall/Arenas/Blatche/McGee and plenty of cap space, 2 trade exceptions and some draft picks. Who's eating crow?

I'm not. I'm too busy to reassemble (again) another finely detailed "best of" "the worst of EG," but the thought of watching it makes me cringe. Oh well, I guess I'm stuck with him. He's stuck with me too. If he truly can turn it around, then we both did our jobs.

All credit to Abe in heaven and Hallelujah Ted in waiting. All glory to God. EG still on probation.

[verbal8]

There's this Ernie audio interview over on ESPN:

http://espn.go.com/nba/draft

(middle of the page, below the draft tracker)

Many have probably at least heard quotes from it if not already listened, but I found it mostly encouraging.

(I like the steady reluctance on free agency, but I was worried when he used the plural 'guys' when talking about 'looking around'. OK, I'm reading too much into it)

I actually think the singular would be scary because it could mean they were keyed in on one max(or near max)guy. Boozer is the guy who would scare me the most.

[montestewart]

There's this Ernie audio interview over on ESPN:

http://espn.go.com/nba/draft

(middle of the page, below the draft tracker)

Many have probably at least heard quotes from it if not already listened, but I found it mostly encouraging.

(I like the steady reluctance on free agency, but I was worried when he used the plural 'guys' when talking about 'looking around'. OK, I'm reading too much into it)

I actually think the singular would be scary because it could mean they were keyed in on one max(or near max)guy. Boozer is the guy who would scare me the most.

I'm more worried about overpaying for Gay. If we want the remainder of his $100 million contract, (or whatever is the current max he can get) he'll be available for trade in a year or two.

[montestewart]

As for the draft, the organization's sent signals that it's Wall and Wall only, but that won't stop people from making offers. I'm more worried about what might happen when Blair's still available @ #35.

[Silvie Lysandra]

I'm sincerely hoping he's learned from his past mistakes (and he's made them at every stop)

this is what the EG defenders refuse to come to terms with - EG builds teams the same way every year, no matter where he's at. He made the same mistakes in NY as he did in Milwaukee as he did in Washington. So why do people simply assume he'll somehow get better? Because he found himself on the right side of a few trades?

While Grunfeld was the Knicks top executive, New York advanced to at least the Conference Semifinals of the NBA Playoffs each season. He had five 50-plus win seasons, three Atlantic Division Championships, and two trips to the NBA Finals (in 1994 and 1999). In eight seasons as general manager or vice-president of player personnel, his Knicks teams had a record of 397–227 (.636), and a 61–44 record in the playoffs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernie_Grunfeld

uh and what happened to that team afterwards? that team had one nice run in a lockout season but it was clear the team needed to REBUILD, and trading for spree is not a rebuilding move. He also overpaid guys like Charlie Ward and Chris Childs.

[WizarDynasty]

I don't think we'll have much choice other than to keep Gil anyway given his contract, I just wonder if he is willing to NOT be the face of the franchise, to be just another guy on the team.

I think that's what gil wanted to be. Grunfeld has fforced gil into something he's not with his poor personnel moves. Arenas was a shooting guard at arizona state. Arenas has been one of the top scorers in the league. Arenas can never reach his full potential until u get a small forward defensive enuff to allow gil to play shooting guard full time defensively. That means getting a lockdown small forward that guard elite shooting guards and smallforwards. EG lack of defensive basketball iq kept him from seeing the relationship between undersized shooting guard in the post and shotblocking two way bigger than average small forward to counter gils size.
He seemed to slowly get it with dmac...but failed to realzed dmac shot .44 percent from the free throw line...this was EG's move to make up for loosing jeffries. The big small forward that took on the most talented wing player each night.
Wall is the future and is a true point with true point skills. Arenas never had point guard handles which is why his assist where never high. Wall is a true point guard. Arenas really is a true shooting guard exept his standing reach is too short to guard in the post. Our absolute number priority has to be getting a big lockdown shotblocking smallforward in the dmac jeffries mold...who can also stroke the three. Thornton aint it. Mike miller is not a shotblocker and doesn't swap any shots. He was twice as good defensively as butler which shows just how poor our defense was at the sf spot. We need a marion in his prime...josh smith...aminu type...ak in his prime type player. We lucked up and got a point guard of the decade...who is ideal running with gil...we now see how difficult it is to find a true two way shotblocking smallforward. A big shotblocking smallforward who can also hit the three ball. Its a challenge that ernies has faiked to deliver his entire tenure hear and may be the reason he is fired. He cam close with dmac but failed to comprehend shooting .54 from the line at any point in your career disqualifies u from ever being a true threar from three point line otherwise dmac would still be here. and probably starting. So the season is wasted if don't have thos type of player. Arenas will be posted up night by big sg's with no shot blocking help from his small forward...thornton or miller...have no help defense ability..neither player can guard an elite front court player. Putting wall on big sg's is going to shorten his career. Arenas is fine guarding shooting guards anywhere exept the post and with wall he doesn't have to worry about saving his energy on offense or getting his teammates involved he can be the selfish that destroys teams from anywhere on the court. The gym rat that constantly works on his game. But gils kryptonite...getting posted by bigger sgs. And we have no immediate answers...abd it will be the main reason why this teams chemistry is detroyed. Unless we magically get a jeffires that can hit a three point shot. A dmac that can hit a three ball. Gil and thornton will be the attacking points. And physical center will grind with mcgee. Lebron would really help gil out with his weakside shot blocking covering gil in the post but pulling blatche or mcgee out in the high post to help gil is going to cause a serios breakdown in defense. A small forward ideal place for defense is to shut down big shooting guard and small forwards that post out perimeter.
Ernies number one goal should have been to get 6'9 player with good standing reach that can hit the three and is agile. He hasn't done it.

Its almost as if EG is experimenting. He gets dmac...has all the tools we need except he was .54 free throw shooter...great heigh and agility at least passes smallforward test defensively but can't shoot. He then says I messed up...let's try mike miller. Miller slow footed..has decent height but can't shot block. Miller was an upgrade over butler but we needed a player who was jeffries with a three point shot. So u ask why was miller not jeffries with a three point shot. When we answr this question...that when we figure out what EG's true weaknesses are in terms of making the wiz a dynasty. Standing reach agility and the ability to hit a three. 9'0 close 11seconds lane agility and above 75 percent shooting free thows in college.

[closg00]

^^^
Nice post Wiz

[LyricalRico]

^^^
Nice post Wiz

Now you're REALLY reaching.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

this is what the EG defenders refuse to come to terms with - EG builds teams the same way every year, no matter where he's at. He made the same mistakes in NY as he did in Milwaukee as he did in Washington. So why do people simply assume he'll somehow get better? Because he found himself on the right side of a few trades?

While Grunfeld was the Knicks top executive, New York advanced to at least the Conference Semifinals of the NBA Playoffs each season. He had five 50-plus win seasons, three Atlantic Division Championships, and two trips to the NBA Finals (in 1994 and 1999). In eight seasons as general manager or vice-president of player personnel, his Knicks teams had a record of 397–227 (.636), and a 61–44 record in the playoffs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernie_Grunfeld

uh and what happened to that team afterwards? that team had one nice run in a lockout season but it was clear the team needed to REBUILD, and trading for spree is not a rebuilding move. He also overpaid guys like Charlie Ward and Chris Childs.

Didn't EG have a C named Patrick Ewing in New York? Charles Oakley was a Knick before EG got there. Wasn't Pat Riley his coach, and then Jeff Van Gundy?

How much did EG have to do with the Knicks' success?

[DaRealHibachi]

^^^
Nice post Wiz

Now you're REALLY reaching.

Can't really disagree with Wiz though (that's a first), cause with a Arenas/Wall backcourt, we desperately need a big wing to (try and) cover the Kobe's, Lebron's, Carmelo's etc.

EG better get it done... That, and signing/drafting a defensive big...

[WizarDynasty]

well it looks like wall is .5 inches taller than arenas without shoes. 6'2.75. Arenas 6'2.25. They are pretty much identical physically. We definitely need a shot blocking two way small forward on the court to help out on the perimeter defense. Thornton and Miller won't cut it at all. McGee's length's helps when guards since arenas is going to have to play his man tight. Since Arena's lack of standing reach at the shooting guard position means that he has to play his man tighter than usually leaving him vulnerable to the drive. That means we need our small forward to provide shot blocking ability once arenas man goes by him due to arenas playing tight against the three ball. We need our small forward to provide shot blocking on the shooting guard. Mike miller and thornton have no help defense shot blocking. McGee is going to foul out or leave his man for wide open jams ever play. Small forward is the most critical position right now with wall and arenas. D. Ebanks is not athletic at all and very soft..he is not the pick for the later rounds ok maybe extreme late second round if he shows signs of physical perimeter defense and quick feet.
I guess this is where EG show's us his evolution and learning curve. Howard would i guess be adequate if his knee wasn't shredded. i like brackin a lot but someone told me he is slow footed and can't guard small forwards...handle the ball and shoot threes..

John Wall 6' 2.75 "6' 4" 196lb 6'9.25wingspan "8'5.5"ft standing reach

Gilbert Areanas 6' 2.25 "NA 199lb 6'9.5"wingspan 8'3.5ft"
standing reach

It looks like wall has more standing reach than gil and is probably better at challenging shots on sg's. double wammy because we know gil isn't that quick laterally against point guards.
Gil's role may be limited to the same as barbosa's with the suns. Scorer coming off the the bench.

[phil21]

http://www.nba.com/wizards/video/2010/0 ... index.html

Ernie working the media shortly after the lottery.

[fishercob]

http://www.nba.com/wizards/video/2010/05/21/NBADraftLotteryGrunfeldnbawizweb-1324402/index.html

Ernie working the media shortly after the lottery.

"I do have something in my pocket, a good luck charm, and if it works I'll show you what it is."

Hey-ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

Ernie's schlong FTW!