09-10 WizFans Official Draft Thread

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

What is everyone's take on Gordon Hayward?

I mean I really like the kid and think he is a very versatile player. He obviously needs to add strength but he is tough and can score in a variety of ways.

If he declares, i think he is a mid to late 1st (DX has him going 21)

If he was available at 30...i would take him. He would essentially replace Mike Miller and we could let him walk.

My take on him is that Singler showed he's the better player - in every phase of the game. I think it's strange how he gets overlooked. There was a discussion here the other day, and several people actually said Scheyer's a better prospect than Singler.

Been wrong before .... Ruz, I admit to watching extremely few ball games and just going by mostly offensive stats. Scheyer's A/TO ratio, his ability to get to the line and make FTs, his points per possession at the PG position, his willingness to take big shots--all make me think he's going to be a good scoring PG in the pros.

I will admit this, Ruz: Everything about his lack of explosiveness and his being a relatively slow, weak guys says he won't cut it at PG or SG. I just think he'll be a good player, regardless of what he looks like and where he plays.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Regarding Cousins, I could see Flip telling the FO NOT to draft this guy. Look at how Flip responds to Andray, JaVale & Nick, Cousins yelled at his coach all year supposedly.

If Cousins plays in the pro's like he did this year, not only would FLip want him, Flip would let him defecate in his shoes.

Cousins will be much better than projected IMO because he only played something like 23 minutes per game as a freshman. His production is really off the charts.

In 30 minutes in the NBA Cousins should come into the league averaging 20 and 12 with steals, blocks, and assists.

[LyricalRico]

Kentucky basketball standouts John Wall, DeMarcus Cousins, Eric Bledsoe, Daniel Orton and Patrick Patterson will enter their names in this year's NBA Draft.

http://www.wfie.com/Global/story.asp?S=12273163

I think Bledsoe could be there at #30.

[VictorPage44]

@agentovechkin

I like gordan hayward. I think he's better than singler because of his ballhandling. They both shoot, though hayward probably shoots a little better off the dribble and with step backs, etc, but I think hayward's handle gives him that extra dimention. I dont mean to make an unnnecessary comparison, but he reminds me of hedo a little in that he's not athletic but hes long with a shot and a handle. He's also pretty tough on the boards. later in the first round, I'd consider him. I like his value at around the 25th pick. I'd rather have hayward at 25 than Wesley Johnson at 6.

[Rafael122]

The only Kentucky player who won't be a lottery pick will be Orton. According to Ford, Thunder GM Sam Presti is intrigued by him, and may pick him with one of his two first round picks.

The only way we could get Bledsoe is if we trade back into the late lottery. I think this is history with 5 players from the same school being drafted in the first round. Florida did it with 3 a few years ago, but 5. Has that ever been done?

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Zoubek is a solid 2nd rounder. A poor man's Haywood, or maybe Aaron Gray with a bit of fire & nastiness. I think I'd give him heavy consideration with our 2nd rd pick.

Orton looks like a mid-to-late 1st rounder to me. I'd love him at 30 but he'll be long gone before then. If we could procure an additional pick around 18-20, Orton would be the first guy I'd look to.

Dat, I always respect what you say about the draft. I haven't done much watching at all. I've only looked a little bit at stats ... That said, Orton's stats look really bad compared to Cousins' and Patterson's.

Just from a very brief look I'd say he's doing a Chris Wilcox. He's capitalizing on team success without actually being a good player. HOWEVER, since you like him I'll look at him more later.

[Rafael122]

I understand the need to get paid or whatever. I'm fine with that. But Orton barely played in his freshman season and granted he's talented, and granted he's a big man and because of that he's going to get picked in the first round. However, if he stayed 1 more year, where he'd be the starter, he could go from being picked in the 20s to a lottery pick. The difference in money is huge, obviously.

And he could always take out insurance. College football players do it all the time.

[fishercob]

I understand the need to get paid or whatever. I'm fine with that. But Orton barely played in his freshman season and granted he's talented, and granted he's a big man and because of that he's going to get picked in the first round. However, if he stayed 1 more year, where he'd be the starter, he could go from being picked in the 20s to a lottery pick. The difference in money is huge, obviously.

And he could always take out insurance. College football players do it all the time.

I don't think the difference in money is huge when you consider he'll hit free agency a year sooner. I think you can make a pretty strong financial case for him coming out. When you figure in the risk factor of injury, it's almost dumb not to come out if you're going to get drafted.

He didn't start because he played behind the best big man in the country. He wasn't a Calipari guy. He was a Gillespie recruit and reportedly never got on great with Coach Cal.

[Hoopalotta]

I don't think the difference in money is huge when you consider he'll hit free agency a year sooner. I think you can make a pretty strong financial case for him coming out. When you figure in the risk factor of injury, it's almost dumb not to come out if you're going to get drafted.

This is definitely the case.

For example, let's just say that he's the 18th pik this year and he'd be the 8th pick next year, under the current salary scale, the difference is $4.5 million in guaranteed dollars over four years ($7.5 vs. $11.5), which isn't really enough to negate the extra year of earnings and college injury risk.

Then factor in that the next draft class would be getting paid under the new CBA, and nobody knows what the rookie scale is going to be.

And then the coach issue.

[doclinkin]

Cousins will be much better than projected IMO because he only played something like 23 minutes per game as a freshman. His production is really off the charts.

In 30 minutes in the NBA Cousins should come into the league averaging 20 and 12 with steals, blocks, and assists.

Yeah but there was a reason why the team could afford to play him only 20 mins a game with no drop off. That reason is the guy you're skeptical of: Daniel Orton. Orton looked to me like the closest thing I've seen to Brendan Haywood in college ball this year. Stats are nothing special, but regardless there seemed to be minimal dropoff in production when he was on court due to his sheer size positioning and defensive deterrent factor. I liked the kid, hoped he'd slip to 30 if he stayed in.

The question mark for me is why Cuddy only did play 20+ minutes. He occasionally loafed it and looked halfspeed out there, which indicates to me that he may have some conditioning issues. That could be a positive thing if he loses the baby fat and puts in real effort to tune up that natural power. He sure collected more boards and points at halfspeed than most players do full throttle.

On the other hand. I'm still iffy on him regardless. The griping and bitching at his coach while on the sideline are not the best sign. And when refs allowed players to get rough he occasionally took himself out of the game, playing in a sulk so as not to react snap lash out and take someone's head off.

I'm in conflict is all. He fits a need in all respects but poise. But I tend to rate chemistry highly. Tough to project, but you know, that's what the metaphysical thread is for...

[doclinkin]

I guess in measuring chemistry and ball smarts I tend to use the Spurs-stick. That is, when looking at a player, ask yourself: Is this a guy who could play for the San Antonio Spurs?

No matter how talented a cat, Coach Pop will not play him unless he plays defense, plays tough, passes well, doesn't make mistakes, and doesn't bitch when you teach him a better way. Poor Ian Mahinmi could tell you that. Kid could have gotten strong developmental minutes on any team in the league, but because of a bit of a knucklehead nimbus (and some hard luck injuries with bad timing) he never made it on the floor for Pop.

Consider how Popovich would react to a player who gave him crap on the sidelines, whining about his role or whatever. Guaranteed he'd be traded within the year because no matter how talented he was, his trade value would be shot all to hell by the fact that Pop would bury him so deep on the bench you'd need a forensic specialist to exhume him.

Still, San Antone tends to do well regardless, and always drafts well even when they have late picks. (Scola and Splitter are exceptions that prove the rule. They were great selections, would have been remarkable bargains for the late picks, the Spurs just couldn't afford them because the bargains were too great, Europe paid better).

Is this a perfect system? No. But you can run down the list of picks and select guys you know could play for the Spurs, and would have strong careers doing so, even if their upside or talent isn't as stunning and remarkable. They produce. They have a good attitude. They will show up game in and game out as a positive known quantity.

The What Would Spurs Do? picks -- players who in terms of attitude, effort and hustle could no-question play for the Spurs with little adjustment period, and no chance of benching due to attitude. Talent aside, here are the attitude fits:

Evan Turner
Cole Aldrich
Patrick Patterson
Damion James
Xavier Henry
Larry Sanders
Quincy Pondexter
Kyle Singler
Jarvis Varnado
Trevor Booker
Kenneth Faried
Aubrey Coleman
Dominique Jones
Greivis
Manny Harris
Luke Harangody
Marquez Haynes

Pretty sure you could assemble a winning squad out of that pool.

[Not that these are players the Spurs would necessarily pick at that spot -- they like to take the late pick Eurotalent and let him season overseas. Take advantage of the twice daily practices drilling fundamentals. On Eurosquads you don't play if you don't pass or defend. There's no job security there for coaches or players, they will bury you deep if you don't put in effort to play right and show that positive effect in the win column. Saves the Spurs the hassle of paying a guy just to slowly develop].

I just haven't seen enough to make a guess on the Euros. (Though Jan Vesely is a defensive specialist, so I'd bet they'd love to have him).

[LyricalRico]

The only Kentucky player who won't be a lottery pick will be Orton. According to Ford, Thunder GM Sam Presti is intrigued by him, and may pick him with one of his two first round picks.

Bledsoe a lottery pick? Wow, I don't see that at all. Mostly because he's basically an undersized SG (at least from what I saw in the tournament). With so many bigs available in this draft, I think he could slip.

[ErikChowbay023]

Orton could be very good, but why did he get so little minutes this year? And what is worth? He`s not worth our first pick right?

I mean from what I saw, he could be a very good replacement for Haywood...He has a pretty big frame, and is fairly polished defensively...but what is he worth?

[verbal8]

I understand the need to get paid or whatever. I'm fine with that. But Orton barely played in his freshman season and granted he's talented, and granted he's a big man and because of that he's going to get picked in the first round. However, if he stayed 1 more year, where he'd be the starter, he could go from being picked in the 20s to a lottery pick. The difference in money is huge, obviously.

And he could always take out insurance. College football players do it all the time.

A guaranteed 1st round deal is pretty good insurance. He will look like an idiot if he falls to the 2nd round, but in the 1st round getting out of the rookie deal a year sooner looks pretty good.

[nate33]

"The Bird of Prey" just signed on as Evan Turner's agent.

[Ruzious]

What is everyone's take on Gordon Hayward?

I mean I really like the kid and think he is a very versatile player. He obviously needs to add strength but he is tough and can score in a variety of ways.

If he declares, i think he is a mid to late 1st (DX has him going 21)

If he was available at 30...i would take him. He would essentially replace Mike Miller and we could let him walk.

My take on him is that Singler showed he's the better player - in every phase of the game. I think it's strange how he gets overlooked. There was a discussion here the other day, and several people actually said Scheyer's a better prospect than Singler.

Been wrong before .... Ruz, I admit to watching extremely few ball games and just going by mostly offensive stats. Scheyer's A/TO ratio, his ability to get to the line and make FTs, his points per possession at the PG position, his willingness to take big shots--all make me think he's going to be a good scoring PG in the pros.

I will admit this, Ruz: Everything about his lack of explosiveness and his being a relatively slow, weak guys says he won't cut it at PG or SG. I just think he'll be a good player, regardless of what he looks like and where he plays.

CCJ, you had a lot of company in being wrong about Scheyer and Singler.

Getting back to the bigs - the Wiz are not going to take Cousins with a top 3 pick, imo. It is the maturity thing. Talent could trump perceived maturity if there's a wide margin in talent, but I don't think GMs think there is that big gap. If it comes down to the 2, the Wiz take Favors. But if they have the 4th pick, and Cousins is there.... I think the talent disparity is therity, and they almost have to take him.

Orton - I haven't seen him enough to tell anything other than he's a freeking moose. I have no clue how he's going to be on defense. His shot looked awfully flat - not sure how that's going to work out in the NBA. Do we really want a project as raw as him? I go back to when we traded for Critter - he's got talent, but by the time he's good enough to help a team, he'll be a free agent. So, if we picked him, we'd be like a farm team for somebody else.

[hands11]

Kentucky basketball standouts John Wall, DeMarcus Cousins, Eric Bledsoe, Daniel Orton and Patrick Patterson will enter their names in this year's NBA Draft.

http://www.wfie.com/Global/story.asp?S=12273163

I think Bledsoe could be there at #30.

This is turning out to be a pretty deep draft. Nice to have some picks.

Bledsoe stood out to me. Orton also caught my eye.

But in two years, people will be talking Alabi

Looks like lots of teams are going to get good players. What it will boil down to is, who put together the best team with those players. Example, you can rave about CP3 and Gil, etc but what have they won.

Durrant is great but in year three his team is just sneaking in at #8

This isn't a one player league. Players like Jordon, Kobe, LeBron just don't happen very often. and even they needed players around them.

Personally, I wouldn't draft a PG who is 6-4 195 with the #1 overall. For me my top 5 pick is best used on a SF, PF, or center and they would have be able to be two way player. In a draft this deep, I think you can be real value quality at 5-25.

It easily could go down like this.

Turner could still go #1.
Favors
Wall
Cousins

but later teams can still get nice players like
Wesley Johnson
Alabi
Orton
Bledsoe

Lots of players to take this year who will stick in the NBA.

I would actually consider trade down if we could turn our say #4 and #30 into a #5-6 and #20

Everything is on the table.

But remember, you have to design a team to get out of your division and conference. That mean us needing a big body to deal with D Howard who will be around a while. We need to stay focused. Adding Wall isnt going to fix our D Howard problem.

[nate33]

Orton - I haven't seen him enough to tell anything other than he's a freeking moose. I have no clue how he's going to be on defense. His shot looked awfully flat - not sure how that's going to work out in the NBA. Do we really want a project as raw as him? I go back to when we traded for Critter - he's got talent, but by the time he's good enough to help a team, he'll be a free agent. So, if we picked him, we'd be like a farm team for somebody else.

+1

We're just not in the right place to draft Orton. Orton is a high risk/high reward project. An established team picking in the middle of the draft might be interested in grooming him, but not us. I could see somebody like OKC drafting him and then signing Camby or JO on a 2-year deal to start while Orton develops.

[Rafael122]

The only Kentucky player who won't be a lottery pick will be Orton. According to Ford, Thunder GM Sam Presti is intrigued by him, and may pick him with one of his two first round picks.

Bledsoe a lottery pick? Wow, I don't see that at all. Mostly because he's basically an undersized SG (at least from what I saw in the tournament). With so many bigs available in this draft, I think he could slip.

Second best point guard in the draft. He's got NBA talent, he just hasn't shown it yet because he played behind Wall, or alongside him in some cases. Dude has a 6'6" wingspan. Do remember that even though I said he's a lottery pick, doesn't mean he's going in the top 10. I could see a team like Indiana take him.

[Ruzious]

Personally, I wouldn't draft a PG who is 6-4 195 with the #1 overall. For me my top 5 pick is best used on a SF, PF, or center and they would have be able to be two way player. In a draft this deep, I think you can be real value quality at 5-25.

It easily could go down like this.

Turner could still go #1.
Favors
Wall
Cousins

Why? In the 2005 draft, Chris Paul (6'1 178) and Deron Williams (6'3 202) arguably should have been the top 2 picks.

I see this as a pretty average talent draft - with a very big drop after the top 4. With so many inexperienced players, it's harder than ever to evaluate it. I'm sure there will be some bargains, but overall - it doesn't seem impressive.