NBA Games Discussion Thread

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I wonder if getting swept by the Spurs marks the end of Hollins' tenure as head coach and the beginning of Dave Joerger in Memphis?

[hands11]

Always liked the Spurs. Great series. Great win for him. Back to challenge for a title and I hope they get it.

Just love the way they play. Team ball. All business. Just focused. Serious. No showboating. Just win.

Parker was amazing. And Timmy is timeless. 37 Parker 31. Mani 35. Splitter 28 Diaw 31 Bonner 33

[LyricalRico]

I wonder if getting swept by the Spurs marks the end of Hollins' tenure as head coach and the beginning of Dave Joerger in Memphis?

Seems like Hollins is out since they haven't extended him already. Too bad cuz it wasn't his fault IMO. What he's done with their defense and in developing Mike Conley have been awesome. But when your best player (Z-Bo) only gets something like 16 total buckets in 4 games against the most experienced team in the league, you're going to get swept no matter who your coach is.

I also wonder what the chatter in Memphis will be about them dumping Gay and Speights earlier in the year to save money. Having very little perimeter scoring and not much behind Randolph/Gasol seems to have finally caught up with them. Not saying that those weren't the right moves longterm, but it's clear (at least to me) that they aren't going to go any further without a couple more pieces.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Memphis missed Speights. They needed a taller, big body in the lineup to take some of the weight off Randolph.

Memphis got outplayed by a superior team. Hollins could not have prevented it but I think he was badly out coached. He stuck with Prince too much when scoring was needed, instead of playing Pondexter more. He never gave Leuer a chance with the starters when ZBo was struggling. Hollins had Austin Daye stuck to the bench. A guy that tall who hits threes should have played at least a little. The worst thing Hollins did was stick with Randolph too long when Randolph was very ineffective at both ends. Likewise, Hollins ignored the fact that Prince was killing the team offensively, Hollins did what older coaches tend to do. He played veterans.

(Expect the same issue to crop up with the Wizards this coming season under Wittman. Rookies are not really wanted unless they arrive playing like good NBA veterans.)

I think that shove he gave Bayless was indicative of why the Grizzlies can hire Joerger and never look back.

[FAH1223]

CCJ, if the Grizzlies hire Joerger and add a couple of shooters... they can get back to this point next season. Arthur, Pondexter, and Bayless all deserved more minutes.

BTW, Bayless is a free agent if he opts out of his deal this summer. I'd love to have him here in DC.

[Nivek]

Memphis lost next to nothing when they traded Gay. Prince was an adequate fill-in short-term, and they'll likely be able to find someone better than either guy at a much lower price tag in the offseason. Gay was/is a good defender, but so is Prince. Inefficient "scorers" aren't that difficult to replace.

[FAH1223]

If Kwahi Leonard gets in foul trouble in the finals, who guards LeBron?

[Nivek]

If Kwahi Leonard gets in foul trouble in the finals, who guards LeBron?

Danny Green. Manu Ginobili. Stephen Jackson. Boris Diaw.

Really though, the counterpart matchup won't mean a whole lot. The Spurs will help whoever is officially assigned to defend Lebron. They'll run bigs at him. They'll chop down in post-up. They'll do a lot of different stuff.

[Ruzious]

Yeah, at this point in their careers, it probably doesn't make a lot of difference having McGrady vs Stephen Jackson or even Richard Jefferson.

[FAH1223]

If Kwahi Leonard gets in foul trouble in the finals, who guards LeBron?

Danny Green. Manu Ginobili. Stephen Jackson. Boris Diaw.

Really though, the counterpart matchup won't mean a whole lot. The Spurs will help whoever is officially assigned to defend Lebron. They'll run bigs at him. They'll chop down in post-up. They'll do a lot of different stuff.

Jackson got cut before the playoffs started due to his insistance on more playing time and being a distraction. They essentially brought T-Mac in as another wing but he definitely won't get playing time at this point.

[Nivek]

Oh yeah. I'd forgotten about Jackson getting cut. Probably won't be defending Lebron in the Finals then.

[dobrojim]

everyone seems to be focusing on ZBo's struggles and while they were definitely notable,
I couldn't help but wonder where was the team and individual defense on Tony Parker.
He destroyed Memphis. That last game reminded me of Wall dropping 47 on the Grizz
in no small part due to the incredible efficiency with which Parker produced points.
Conley has been getting a lot of props with MEM getting to the conf finals but
he got BADLY outplayed by Parker so I'd place some blame on him as well.
All that said, SAS was just a better team.

JVG has grown on me in some ways but in others I just think he is flat wrong.
But he couldn't have been more right in pointing out how MEM as a team wasn't
running back on D. Inexcusable in the conf finals, just inexcusable.
Actually inexcusable at any time but with so much at stake, how was that
possible? The one play where Tony Allen was the only guy back and initially
got the stop once or even twice before 2 more Spurs showed up was illustrative
of a serious problem.

[Higga]

Grizz should keep Hollins. No shame in getting swept by a championship caliber team like the Spurs.

[FAH1223]

everyone seems to be focusing on ZBo's struggles and while they were definitely notable,
I couldn't help but wonder where was the team and individual defense on Tony Parker.
He destroyed Memphis. That last game reminded me of Wall dropping 47 on the Grizz
in no small part due to the incredible efficiency with which Parker produced points.
Conley has been getting a lot of props with MEM getting to the conf finals but
he got BADLY outplayed by Parker so I'd place some blame on him as well.
All that said, SAS was just a better team.

JVG has grown on me in some ways but in others I just think he is flat wrong.
But he couldn't have been more right in pointing out how MEM as a team wasn't
running back on D. Inexcusable in the conf finals, just inexcusable.
Actually inexcusable at any time but with so much at stake, how was that
possible? The one play where Tony Allen was the only guy back and initially
got the stop once or even twice before 2 more Spurs showed up was illustrative
of a serious problem.

Same thing also happened with Bayless.

Memphis bigs just do not run back.

[AFM]

ZBo can't run back. He's built like the Michelin Man. Bro be on that blatche diet

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

ZBo can't run back. He's built like the Michelin Man. Bro be on that blatche diet

I'm overweight and as much as I want to represent for big guys, I agree. ZBo and Kendrick Perkins are both hauling too much weight up and down the floor.

Tim Duncan took off a lot of weight prior to this season. It has really improved his mobility and his stamina. ZBo probably should try to do the same in the future.

[hands11]

Memphis missed Speights. They needed a taller, big body in the lineup to take some of the weight off Randolph.

Memphis got outplayed by a superior team. Hollins could not have prevented it but I think he was badly out coached. He stuck with Prince too much when scoring was needed, instead of playing Pondexter more. He never gave Leuer a chance with the starters when ZBo was struggling. Hollins had Austin Daye stuck to the bench. A guy that tall who hits threes should have played at least a little. The worst thing Hollins did was stick with Randolph too long when Randolph was very ineffective at both ends. Likewise, Hollins ignored the fact that Prince was killing the team offensively, Hollins did what older coaches tend to do. He played veterans.

(Expect the same issue to crop up with the Wizards this coming season under Wittman. Rookies are not really wanted unless they arrive playing like good NBA veterans.)

I think that shove he gave Bayless was indicative of why the Grizzlies can hire Joerger and never look back.

CCJ

You like to, as well as several others on the board, take shots at the player development and/or Randy for playing vets.

I propose a different picture. Not to excuse everything that has happened here, but food for thought.

What were the more important things for the Wizards last year ?

Getting Wall and Beal on a roll while turning the team culture around and installing a top 10 defense, or getting Ves and Singleton more minutes. Kevin got plenty. Hell, Temple was a DL call up and he got minutes.

I propose that developing players properly happens a whole lot easier when you have productive vets on your team like Okafor, Webster, Trevor A and Nene and a system, then when you have a team of project kids.

Singleton got his minutes last year because they had no one to play there. I always thought he was a role playing 3&D, not a starter. Ves got his minutes last year. So did Kevin. It was on Ves to add a jumper and FT shooter so he could stay on the floor. It was on Kevin to get is big butt in the paint and rebound. And it was on Singleton to improve his shooting. Those players got what they needed. A dose of reality. It you want to make it in this league, don't take anything for granted. Put in the work. Do what your coach asks of you and more or sit your ass on the bench until you do. If you still don't, you get traded or not resigned eventually.

This is no kiddy day care.

Beal developed just fine and that was more important. Wall finally turned the corner. That was also more important. The team developed a D identity and vastly improved 3 ball shooting.

Well now there should be no confusion for Kevin, Singleton and Ves. Get it going and there always the next up. Maybe it works out for them some place else. Nothing wrong with that. We got players from other places. Every team has players from other places.

But now with a legit style of play defined, with expectations set, a tight locker lockroom, and roles, I expect both picking the right players to add and getting them up to speed will happen faster with less misses.

I propose you are looking backward over more land to support your view. I'm looking forward with less turf and some hope that what I am projecting has chanced will continue to bare fruit. Beal was the first. Lets see how this years rookies do.

I don't thinks it very hard to project that anyone coming to the team this year is coming into a far better situation then last year, the year before, and the year before that. Actually, I would go as far as to say this would be the be situation in 10-15 years for a new player to come into.

[Kanyewest]

everyone seems to be focusing on ZBo's struggles and while they were definitely notable,
I couldn't help but wonder where was the team and individual defense on Tony Parker.
He destroyed Memphis. That last game reminded me of Wall dropping 47 on the Grizz
in no small part due to the incredible efficiency with which Parker produced points.
Conley has been getting a lot of props with MEM getting to the conf finals but
he got BADLY outplayed by Parker so I'd place some blame on him as well.
All that said, SAS was just a better team.

JVG has grown on me in some ways but in others I just think he is flat wrong.
But he couldn't have been more right in pointing out how MEM as a team wasn't
running back on D. Inexcusable in the conf finals, just inexcusable.
Actually inexcusable at any time but with so much at stake, how was that
possible? The one play where Tony Allen was the only guy back and initially
got the stop once or even twice before 2 more Spurs showed up was illustrative
of a serious problem.

Yeah, I was surprised how badly Parker got whatever he wanted considering that Memphis did a good job containing the CP3 and the Clippers. I have to assume the difference was that San Antonio had better shooters and a better half court offense than the Clippers=- Tim Duncan at 37 is still a better half court option than Blake Griffin and a better defender.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Memphis missed Speights. They needed a taller, big body in the lineup to take some of the weight off Randolph.

Memphis got outplayed by a superior team. Hollins could not have prevented it but I think he was badly out coached. He stuck with Prince too much when scoring was needed, instead of playing Pondexter more. He never gave Leuer a chance with the starters when ZBo was struggling. Hollins had Austin Daye stuck to the bench. A guy that tall who hits threes should have played at least a little. The worst thing Hollins did was stick with Randolph too long when Randolph was very ineffective at both ends. Likewise, Hollins ignored the fact that Prince was killing the team offensively, Hollins did what older coaches tend to do. He played veterans.

(Expect the same issue to crop up with the Wizards this coming season under Wittman. Rookies are not really wanted unless they arrive playing like good NBA veterans.)

I think that shove he gave Bayless was indicative of why the Grizzlies can hire Joerger and never look back.

CCJ

You like to, as well as several others on the board, take shots at the player development and/or Randy for playing vets.

I propose a different picture. Not to excuse everything that has happened here, but food for thought.

What were the more important things for the Wizards last year ?

Getting Wall and Beal on a roll while turning the team culture around and installing a top 10 defense, or getting Ves and Singleton more minutes. Kevin got plenty. Hell, Temple was a DL call up and he got minutes.

I propose that developing players properly happens a whole lot easier when you have productive vets on your team like Okafor, Webster, Trevor A and Nene and a system, then when you have a team of project kids.

Singleton got his minutes last year because they had no one to play there. I always thought he was a role playing 3&D, not a starter. Ves got his minutes last year. So did Kevin. It was on Ves to add a jumper and FT shooter so he could stay on the floor. It was on Kevin to get is big butt in the paint and rebound. And it was on Singleton to improve his shooting. Those players got what they needed. A dose of reality. It you want to make it in this league, don't take anything for granted. Put in the work. Do what your coach asks of you and more or sit your ass on the bench until you do. If you still don't, you get traded or not resigned eventually.

This is no kiddy day care.

Beal developed just fine and that was more important. Wall finally turned the corner. That was also more important. The team developed a D identity and vastly improved 3 ball shooting.

Well now there should be no confusion for Kevin, Singleton and Ves. Get it going and there always the next up. Maybe it works out for them some place else. Nothing wrong with that. We got players from other places. Every team has players from other places.

But now with a legit style of play defined, with expectations set, a tight locker lockroom, and roles, I expect both picking the right players to add and getting them up to speed will happen faster with less misses.

I propose you are looking backward over more land to support your view. I'm looking forward with less turf and some hope that what I am projecting has chanced will continue to bare fruit. Beal was the first. Lets see how this years rookies do.

I don't thinks it very hard to project that anyone coming to the team this year is coming into a far better situation then last year, the year before, and the year before that. Actually, I would go as far as to say this would be the be situation in 10-15 years for a new player to come into.

I know you're commenting on my remarks in another thread. What l think hands is there is a difference in what you call plenty minutes and what I call plenty. Booker was injured and Seraphin with Vesely started 15 straight games to end one season. Chris Singleton played minutes at SF.

The next season with Okafor, Ariza, and Webster added, and with Booker back; suddenly Vesely was behind Singleton the stretch PF, and Seraphin rushed shots all season. All three regressed. Young players are now the bane of the coaching staff. That's not good player development.

It's not kiddy care but Okafor and Ariza make $21M and either could opt out. What must happen is resigning them or trades or letting them walk. Vesely, Simgleton, and Seraphin have no hope of even playing minutes as significant as two years ago. None of them are great players but two seasons ago they at least had hope.

I like the culture change and think this season they can really make a push forward. Their young players might get some second round picks in trade. They will be better elsewhere.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Good to see Indy overcome and tie the series up. There were many bad calls both ways.