Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVIII

[payitforward]

How about an offseason trade for Mo Bamba? Dat rated him #3 in the 2018 draft, ahead of Ayton and Young for instance. He's been stuck behind Vucevic and now also Khem Birch. Maybe a change of scenery could help him?

A trade of Bamba for Wagner would probably help both teams?

This is what I mean by making my head spin....

The Magic will not give us Mo Bamba for Mo Wagner. For starters, although Bamba has not shined, he's been better than Wagner. For another, overall, he's a bit better this year than last -- i.e. he's looking like he'll develop.

Above all, a GM who picks a guy #6 in the draft, then trades him 20 months later for the guy picked #25 in the same draft is asking to be fired!

[dckingsfan]

How about an offseason trade for Mo Bamba? Dat rated him #3 in the 2018 draft, ahead of Ayton and Young for instance. He's been stuck behind Vucevic and now also Khem Birch. Maybe a change of scenery could help him?

A trade of Bamba for Wagner would probably help both teams?

This is what I mean by making my head spin....

The Magic will not give us Mo Bamba for Mo Wagner. For starters, although Bamba has not shined, he's been better than Wagner. For another, overall, he's a bit better this year than last -- i.e. he's looking like he'll develop.

Above all, a GM who picks a guy #6 in the draft, then trades him 20 months later for the guy picked #25 in the same draft is asking to be fired!

You are right on multiple fronts.

1) Magic never make that trade straight up
2) Magic have a bigger problem than Bamba for next year (a roster imbalance toward PF)

If you look at the Magic payroll for next year you have

Fultz
Fournier, Ross, Frazier
Ennis
Gordon, Birch, Aminu, Isaac
Vucevic, Bamba

If they Magic were going to do a trade they would try to unblock the PF slot. So, my trade makes no sense. Having said that Bamba is 10th in minutes on the Magic. So, I think they would do a multi-team trade and include Bamba if helped. Especially if they could move both Gordon and Bamba.

But my original point stands (that I didn't articulate well). Bamba (Bamba/Wagner or Bamba/Bryant would be pretty interesting) would help the Wizards and there "might be a package" that we could be part of...

[payitforward]

If we could, somehow, buy low on Bamba I'd be all for it. & your picture of Bamba & Bryant on our team is intriguing -- esp. if Bryant really could play the 4, so they could be on the floor at the same time.

But, of course, what do we have to trade? Wagner & who/what...? Our R1 pick this year? That's an over-pay.

To tell the truth, which no one will like, the obvious choice would be Rui -- though Wagner/Rui is an over-pay as well. Plus, they don't need yet another PF!!

They also just signed Gary Clark & have him next year as well. Would Wagner, Ish Smith & Jerome Robinson work for Bamba & Clark, I wonder? Probably not, but if it did, then we'd re-sign Napier. Clark (everyone knows I like the guy) is insurance in case we lose Bertans. Definitely helps with their roster imbalance. Of course, they might be just as happy re-signing Augustin as acquiring Smith....

[dckingsfan]

If we could, somehow, buy low on Bamba I'd be all for it. & your picture of Bamba & Bryant on our team is intriguing -- esp. if Bryant really could play the 4, so they could be on the floor at the same time.

But, of course, what do we have to trade? Wagner & who/what...? Our R1 pick this year? That's an over-pay.

To tell the truth, which no one will like, the obvious choice would be Rui -- though Wagner/Rui is an over-pay as well. Plus, they don't need yet another PF!!

They also just signed Gary Clark & have him next year as well. Would Wagner, Ish Smith & Jerome Robinson work for Bamba & Clark, I wonder? Probably not, but if it did, then we'd re-sign Napier. Clark (everyone knows I like the guy) is insurance in case we lose Bertans. Definitely helps with their roster imbalance. Of course, they might be just as happy re-signing Augustin as acquiring Smith....

And that is really the problem. They could just fix some of their roster problems with signings next year (and a draft loaded with guards) but they are at around $122M next year.

I think if a trade like this happened, it would need to be a three-way. Any team loaded with guards? Then again, they might just cut us out of the deal.

[payitforward]

They might, yes. Nor am I dying to trade Wagner. But Bamba would be a nice get, & Clark is going to be a solid sub for the next several years.

[gambitx777]

Not to sound like a broken record but
Bryant, admiral , wiz second 2020 for Theis Williams, and Boston's and bucks 2020 picks makes a lot of sense in this draft. Maybe we can't get both picks but they get two goo young players and a few picks later for two picks and a young guy? Makes sense to me and Bryant helps them and doesn't break the bank!

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[Ruzious]

Not to sound like a broken record but
Bryant, admiral , wiz second 2020 for Theis Williams, and Boston's and bucks 2020 picks makes a lot of sense in this draft. Maybe we can't get both picks but they get two goo young players and a few picks later for two picks and a young guy? Makes sense to me and Bryant helps them and doesn't break the bank!

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In this draft, those end of the 1st round picks don't have much value, imo. And Theis is ok, and Williams might become ok, but Bryant's the best player in the trade, so I pass.

[nate33]

Not to sound like a broken record but
Bryant, admiral , wiz second 2020 for Theis Williams, and Boston's and bucks 2020 picks makes a lot of sense in this draft. Maybe we can't get both picks but they get two goo young players and a few picks later for two picks and a young guy? Makes sense to me and Bryant helps them and doesn't break the bank!

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In this draft, those end of the 1st round picks don't have much value, imo. And Theis is ok, and Williams might become ok, but Bryant's the best player in the trade, so I pass.

This.

I get the desire to flip Bryant for a similar caliber player but with more of a defensive mindset. But you can't force such a trade when there isn't really one available. The inclusion of the Boston picks demonstrates that you are aware that Bryant for Theis is a downgrade. Well, if you are downgrading a starter for a backup plus two picks that will likely yield more backups, you are ultimately trading a dollar for three quarters.

Be patient. Bryant may get better and become the defender we need him to be. Or maybe another Clint Capella situation materializes in a year or so. Don't rush to try and make a trade that really isn't ideal.

[gambitx777]

The idea in my head is you do this if you've made your mind up that Mo is the more fixable player. That his issues are more teaching issues that fundamental issues like Bryant's might be. And you cash out now. Yes ideally you go for the higher pick but you are getting a good young wing in the trade. And yes those two picks are low but guys like oturu stick so maybe you say 17 and 30 instead of 26 and 30 maybe that's more of a correct value. Then you are sure to get a guy like Oturu or stick or okongwu

Not to sound like a broken record but
Bryant, admiral , wiz second 2020 for Theis Williams, and Boston's and bucks 2020 picks makes a lot of sense in this draft. Maybe we can't get both picks but they get two goo young players and a few picks later for two picks and a young guy? Makes sense to me and Bryant helps them and doesn't break the bank!

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In this draft, those end of the 1st round picks don't have much value, imo. And Theis is ok, and Williams might become ok, but Bryant's the best player in the trade, so I pass.

This.

I get the desire to flip Bryant for a similar caliber player but with more of a defensive mindset. But you can't force such a trade when there isn't really one available. The inclusion of the Boston picks demonstrates that you are aware that Bryant for Theis is a downgrade. Well, if you are downgrading a starter for a backup plus two picks that will likely yield more backups, you are ultimately trading a dollar for three quarters.

Be patient. Bryant may get better and become the defender we need him to be. Or maybe another Clint Capella situation materializes in a year or so. Don't rush to try and make a trade that really isn't ideal.

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[payitforward]

Agree. I'm sure Boston would eat up this trade, but it doesn't make sense for us.

[Ruzious]

Bryant's already a good player. Wagner's got a lot more to prove, and I think Bryant's trending up more than Wagner is. Seems like Wagner's value was based on him getting hot from 3 for a few games and him drawing offensive fouls - which teams are adjusting to. If you include Wagner in the trade and get us the 17th pick, I'm fine with that. I think you can get a good player at 17. My target there would be Aaron Nesmith.

[payitforward]

Oh... well I would trade Moritz Wagner straight up for the #17 pick. But I don't think Boston would be likely to go for that deal.

[gambitx777]

So Bryant and admiral for Theis , Williams and 17 and 26? More fair? That's two FRP for Bryant and an admiral for Williams swap. Which I believe is an upgrade. I have a good feeling about Mo. I like him and his effort. I think he's going to keep getting better and I think he might end up the better defender. I by no means dislike Bryant I wouldn't hate keeping him at all. But I think getting value for him now would be pretty good. Imo

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[pcbothwel]

So Bryant and admiral for Theis , Williams and 17 and 26? More fair? That's two FRP for Bryant and an admiral for Williams swap. Which I believe is an upgrade. I have a good feeling about Mo. I like him and his effort. I think he's going to keep getting better and I think he might end up the better defender. I by no means dislike Bryant I wouldn't hate keeping him at all. But I think getting value for him now would be pretty good. Imo

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Yes... I wouldnt hesitate to pull that off. There a lot of interesting Big man prospects in the late 1st (Oturo, Tillman, Carey, Stewert, Smith, Reed)
There will also be some wing prospects available as well in Okoro, Green, Bey, Nesmith, and Lewis.

If we could move Bryant and come out with Williams, Hayes (9), Green (17), Nesmith (27), and Tillman (38) then I DONT BLINK.

Wall / Hayes
Beal / Green
Brown / Bonga / Nesmith
Rui / Bertans
Wagner / Williams / Tillman

Those 12 building blocks is Light Years ahead of where we were a year ago. Add in the Full MLE and Mathews and thats an interesting group.
In fact, I would look to move some aggregate of Theis/Ish/Robinson to a 3rd team for a player or player & asset (Lamb, TJ Warren, Dejuante Murray, Aaron Gordon, etc.)

Again... Big fan of Bryant and think only PIF is a bigger fan on this board, but I do worry about his defensive ceiling and even moreso about his contract. He only has two years until he is a UFA, and a Center that can drop 20 & 10 while not being a terrible defender will get paid and I dont want to commit 18-20M per for him.

[payitforward]

So Bryant and admiral for Theis , Williams and 17 and 26? More fair? That's two FRP for Bryant and an admiral for Williams swap. Which I believe is an upgrade. I have a good feeling about Mo. I like him and his effort. I think he's going to keep getting better and I think he might end up the better defender. I by no means dislike Bryant I wouldn't hate keeping him at all. But I think getting value for him now would be pretty good. Imo

"I have a good feeling about" X is not a reason to make a trade. Not a reason to make any decision at all. "I think he's going to keep getting better..." isn't the basis for any decision either.

Admiral has next to no trade value. He was a #47 pick, & he has not played well as a rookie. Theis is about to turn 28, & he expires next year. What Wizards plan does he fit? None. Leave those two guys out.

Now what do we have?

Well... Theis has a lot more value in a trade than Admiral: we'd have to allow Boston to give less, right? So... instead of Bryant for #17, #26 & Grant Williams is it:

Bryant for #26 & Grant Williams? Is that good enough?

If not, then which do you like better between a) Bryant for #17 & Grant Williams & b) Bryant for #17 & #26? Who you going to get at those picks, btw?

[payitforward]

So Bryant and admiral for Theis , Williams and 17 and 26? ...

Yes... I wouldnt hesitate to pull that off. ...If we could move Bryant and come out with Williams, Hayes (9), Green (17), Nesmith (27), and Tillman (38) then I DONT BLINK....

Whoa there, tiger!! This trade would have no effect on our ability to get Hayes or Tillman as you describe. Plus... that's an aggressive projection to get Green at #17 & Nesmith at #27!

Suppose Green goes #16. Do you take Nesmith #17? If not, who do you take? & then, if Nesmith is gone when your #27 comes up, who do you take?

Suppose you wind up with R.J. Hampton, Jaden McDaniel & Cassius Stanley -- still happy? Someone is smart enough to grab Tillmann before we come up in R2, what do you do -- pick Makur Maker?

After all, we need a Center if you...

...would look to move some aggregate of Theis/Ish/Robinson to a 3rd team for a player or player & asset (Lamb, TJ Warren, Dejuante Murray, Aaron Gordon, etc.)...

Not related to the trade of course, but still... that's a pretty rose-colored vision! You'd have to sign a paper promising not to laugh at the guy who made that trade with you! (In the case of Gordon, we could not absorb his #18m salary anyway)

Again... Big fan of Bryant and think only PIF is a bigger fan on this board, but I do worry about his defensive ceiling and even moreso about his contract. He only has two years until he is a UFA, and a Center that can drop 20 & 10 while not being a terrible defender will get paid and I dont want to commit 18-20M per for him.

Worry about his defensive ceiling? Sure. But nobody's perfect. There's always something to worry about, esp. in the case of young players.

Worry about his contract? No no no.... He's excellent value at $8m, & we have him for 2 years. Plus you don't factor in the possibility of significant development between now & when he's 24 going on 25?

As well, if you trade him, then move Theis, then pick 2 wings with the picks you got (& Hayes/Tillmann) -- we are starting Wagner, & there's nobody behind him!! Oh yeah, I forgot... Mo averages 7.25 fouls per 40 minutes. How good is his defense with 5 fouls on him, I wonder....

[DCZards]

So Bryant and admiral for Theis , Williams and 17 and 26? More fair? That's two FRP for Bryant and an admiral for Williams swap. Which I believe is an upgrade. I have a good feeling about Mo. I like him and his effort. I think he's going to keep getting better and I think he might end up the better defender. I by no means dislike Bryant I wouldn't hate keeping him at all. But I think getting value for him now would be pretty good. Imo

C'mon man. You really think Ainge and Boston are going to give you all that for Bryant and Admiral?

[pcbothwel]

So Bryant and admiral for Theis , Williams and 17 and 26? ...

Yes... I wouldnt hesitate to pull that off. ...If we could move Bryant and come out with Williams, Hayes (9), Green (17), Nesmith (27), and Tillman (38) then I DONT BLINK....

Whoa there, tiger!! This trade would have no effect on our ability to get Hayes or Tillman as you describe. Plus... that's an aggressive projection to get Green at #17 & Nesmith at #27!

Suppose Green goes #16. Do you take Nesmith #17? If not, who do you take? & then, if Nesmith is gone when your #27 comes up, who do you take?

Suppose you wind up with R.J. Hampton, Jaden McDaniel & Cassius Stanley -- still happy? Someone is smart enough to grab Tillmann before we come up in R2, what do you do -- pick Makur Maker?

After all, we need a Center if you...

...would look to move some aggregate of Theis/Ish/Robinson to a 3rd team for a player or player & asset (Lamb, TJ Warren, Dejuante Murray, Aaron Gordon, etc.)...

Not related to the trade of course, but still... that's a pretty rose-colored vision! You'd have to sign a paper promising not to laugh at the guy who made that trade with you! (In the case of Gordon, we could not absorb his #18m salary anyway)

Again... Big fan of Bryant and think only PIF is a bigger fan on this board, but I do worry about his defensive ceiling and even moreso about his contract. He only has two years until he is a UFA, and a Center that can drop 20 & 10 while not being a terrible defender will get paid and I dont want to commit 18-20M per for him.

Worry about his defensive ceiling? Sure. But nobody's perfect. There's always something to worry about, esp. in the case of young players.

Worry about his contract? No no no.... He's excellent value at $8m, & we have him for 2 years. Plus you don't factor in the possibility of significant development between now & when he's 24 going on 25?

As well, if you trade him, then move Theis, then pick 2 wings with the picks you got (& Hayes/Tillmann) -- we are starting Wagner, & there's nobody behind him!! Oh yeah, I forgot... Mo averages 7.25 fouls per 40 minutes. How good is his defense with 5 fouls on him, I wonder....

1) Draft Picks: PIF, arguing your point about the picks not being worth Bryant by selecting flawed prospects is a straw man. Yes, Im sure we could pick terrible prospects...but Why?!?
At 16, one of Reed, Okoro, Green, Toppin, etc. will be there. At 27, Oturo, Nesmith, Bey, Scottie Lewis, Tre Jones, Tillman, etc. will be there. At 38, Nesmith, Tillman, Nwora, Sylla, Joe, or Hagans will be there (BTW... I would love the draft and stash of Sylla at 38)

2) Trade: Warren was just dumped WITH a 1st round pick. Rotational Players in the 10-15M range are always available for teams trying to cut future salary. Not sure why we'd get laughed at.

3) Gordon: We'd be sending out Bryant (8M), Ish (6M), and Robinson (3.7M) for a total of 17.7M, which means we can take back about 23M in salary. Gordon makes 18M... not sure what you missed.

4) Are you ignoring Robert Williams? You dont think Williams, Wagner, and Tillman could hold down the Center spot with Rui & Bonga providing small ball support?

5) I think you'd agree it's highly unlikely Bryant ever becomes elite (I.E. Embiid, Jokic, Gobert), correct? So whats the next step down? Current Vucevic, Kanter, Ayton, Steven Adams, Myles Turner. etc.... That guy as a UFA at 25 is gonna be a contract we immediately regret.

Again, I love Bryant... but if you can get two first (with one in the top 20) for a non elite Center in this NBA, Im not sure how you say no.

[gambitx777]

Yes I do. They have a lot of young players as is and they are cap strapped with browns contract. This is a good way of r them to get a young player and get an upgrade at a position. Grant Williams is a wing on a team full of wings and is expendable. Consolidating two mid round picks in too a good 22 year old center who's better right now than the picks will be for a team in the chase for a tittle Is a good move. IMO. We are trying to contend but flipping a young asset for 3 more younger assets in our position is a good move when we have Mo and AP on the team and we need to either draft an interior defender or sign one.

So Bryant and admiral for Theis , Williams and 17 and 26? More fair? That's two FRP for Bryant and an admiral for Williams swap. Which I believe is an upgrade. I have a good feeling about Mo. I like him and his effort. I think he's going to keep getting better and I think he might end up the better defender. I by no means dislike Bryant I wouldn't hate keeping him at all. But I think getting value for him now would be pretty good. Imo

C'mon man. You really think Ainge and Boston are going to give you all that for Bryant and Admiral?

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[payitforward]

1) Draft Picks: PIF, arguing your point about the picks not being worth Bryant by selecting flawed prospects is a straw man. Yes, Im sure we could pick terrible prospects...but Why?!?...

That's fair. But my point wasn't really about bad picks. It was more that the 2 names you list -- Green at 17 & Nesmith at 26 -- aren't guaranteed. We can't trade for those guys by trading for picks! So that does raise the question: what's the least promising pair you think we could wind up with if we made the trade? Do they still make the trade worth doing?

...(BTW... I would love the draft and stash of Sylla at 38)...

Over taking Tillman?

2) Trade: Warren was just dumped WITH a 1st round pick. Rotational Players in the 10-15M range are always available for teams trying to cut future salary. Not sure why we'd get laughed at....

Then again, there are no such players in this trade!

3) Gordon: We'd be sending out Bryant (8M), Ish (6M), and Robinson (3.7M) for a total of 17.7M, which means we can take back about 23M in salary. Gordon makes 18M... not sure what you missed.

You forgot Admiral. I wasn't clear enough. The 2 trades leave us with Wall, Beal, Brown, Wagner, Rui & Gordon for $99m. I assume we'd extend Bonga, & we're looking forward to spending, say, $15m on Bertans. That's $116m. Wait... I forgot Williams. Just under $119m on 9 guys. The 4 rookies (love it!!!) will cost us @ $12.5m. Ok, that's $131.5m for 13 guys. So, I guess we can sneak in under the lux tax while absorbing Gordon.

4) Are you ignoring Robert Williams? You dont think Williams, Wagner, and Tillman could hold down the Center spot with Rui & Bonga providing small ball support?

Umm... it was Grant Williams that Gambit was taking back in the trade. (& you've once again assumed who we'll be able to get in the draft -- Tillman. Love to have him)