Official Trade Thread Part XLVII

[nate33]

McCain has shown he’s a legit player in the NBA....

I don't understand why you (& others) have come to this conclusion. He wasn't terrible as a rookie, but he wasn't much either....

Starting on the 8th game of the season, when Philly realized the kid was good, he got starter's minutes and proceeded to average 19 points per game shooting 56.2% from 2P range, 39.7% from 3P range and 85.4% from the FT line. Those aren't even per minute numbers. They were his actual stats.

He was 20 at the time.

[pcbothwel]

McCain has shown he’s a legit player in the NBA. He’s got real value. The way to get him to Washington is as follows:

Paul George + Jared McCain

For

CJ McCollum + Kris. Middleton + OKC pick.

Tell me you're kidding. Paul George was terrible last year, and he actually got worse as the year went on, and then had ANOTHER knee surgery and has yet to play this year at age 35. But dont worry, he is only owed $55M/year for 2 more years AFTER this one.
He is clearly a worse contract than Beal was, and Beal HAD to be waived/stretched because NO ONE would take on his deal.

PG13 is either waived or kept by Philly. I see almost no way he is moved.

Of course Paul George is an awful dead weight contract. That's why Philly would consider it. Dumping him would allow them to hold onto Grimes, Oubre and probably a bit more depth so they can continue their revival going forward.

We have $100M in cap room and we have to spend it somewhere. Why not use it to buy the guy who was frontrunner for rookie of the year last year until he got hurt? Paul George would come off the books in 2028, just in time for Sarr's and Kyshawn's second contracts.

I wouldn't include the OKC pick though. I still think that can be used in a pick swap deal with a contender who is Stepien Ruled out of trading their 2026 pick. We will take on a bad contract to swap up from #30 to #23 or so. Also, we might want to include Kispert instead of Middleton as outgoing filler to reduce the long term salary burden of the deal.

Again... You are asking the FO to pay $110M for Jared F'n McCain. You also need to take into account the opportunity cost of using that Cap space for another BOYD or a FA.
Lets say this team lucks into one of Peterson/AJ in the draft, Tre looks to be a solid 3rd/4th piece at the 2, and Sarr/George continue to improve, and we finish with something like 35-37 wins with a strong 2nd half next year.
The 2027 FA class has Jokic, Giannis, Donovan Mitchell, etc. Im not willing to just throw that away right now.
The Bucks & Denver look really vulnerable and Jokic/Giannis could outright walk.

2028 FA class sucks as its headlined by Darius Garland, Ja, and 35 y/o AD & Siakim.
Doncic and Bam will certainly re-up in LAL & MIA.

[tontoz]

That deal wont happen because we might end up drafting a pg in June. I can see them making a similar deal just not this one.

I am definitely curious to see what they do with their cap space the next couple of years. They have to do something big just to meet the salary minimum. Or they could just stay way below it and pay the penalty whatever that is.

[nate33]

Again... You are asking the FO to pay $110M for Jared F'n McCain. You also need to take into account the opportunity cost of using that Cap space for another BOYD or a FA.

They HAVE to pay somebody. If not McCain, it'll likely be to overpay a RFA like Kessler or Mathurin. I like those guys on fair deals, but RFA signings usually mean an overpay.

BOYD deals are rarer and more expensive than you think. And they usually only result in SRP's because teams desperate to shed salary are also teams that have no picks to trade. We had to piece together a zillion BOYD deals and then combine all the SRP's just to get the Memphis pick last year. Go look around the league. How many bad contracts are there that teams will use FRP's to dump?

Lets say this team lucks into one of Peterson/AJ in the draft, Tre looks to be a solid 3rd/4th piece at the 2, and Sarr/George continue to improve, and we finish with something like 35-37 wins with a strong 2nd half next year.
The 2027 FA class has Jokic, Giannis, Donovan Mitchell, etc. Im not willing to just throw that away right now.
The Bucks & Denver look really vulnerable and Jokic/Giannis could outright walk.

I'm willing to throw that chance away. The chance of Jokic or Giannis coming here are zero point zero, at least not as an outright free agent. In fact, if we wanted to go after one of those guys, we would be in better position by having Paul George's expiring contract to match int a trade, plus future picks as incentive.

[Rafael122]

You guys make it seem like Ja is going to go for 3 FRP's and 2 pick swaps. His value is in the toilet right now. He's got 2 years left after this one. I'm fully aware of the off court stuff, but the absolute worse case scenario is that it doesn't work out and he moves on (either via free agency or trade), and we gave up nothing to take a shot.

[tontoz]

You guys make it seem like Ja is going to go for 3 FRP's and 2 pick swaps. His value is in the toilet right now. He's got 2 years left after this one. I'm fully aware of the off court stuff, but the absolute worse case scenario is that it doesn't work out and he moves on (either via free agency or trade), and we gave up nothing to take a shot.

Ja isn't just a cancer off the court he is a shot chucking garbage can on the court. The last thing we need is an entititled punk coming in here jacking up 20 shots a game and alienating the entire team.

[pcbothwel]

Again... You are asking the FO to pay $110M for Jared F'n McCain. You also need to take into account the opportunity cost of using that Cap space for another BOYD or a FA.

They HAVE to pay somebody. If not McCain, it'll likely be to overpay a RFA like Kessler or Mathurin. I like those guys on fair deals, but RFA signings usually mean an overpay.

BOYD deals are rarer and more expensive than you think. And they usually only result in SRP's because teams desperate to shed salary are also teams that have no picks to trade. We had to piece together a zillion BOYD deals and then combine all the SRP's just to get the Memphis pick last year. Go look around the league. How many bad contracts are there that teams will use FRP's to dump?

Lets say this team lucks into one of Peterson/AJ in the draft, Tre looks to be a solid 3rd/4th piece at the 2, and Sarr/George continue to improve, and we finish with something like 35-37 wins with a strong 2nd half next year.
The 2027 FA class has Jokic, Giannis, Donovan Mitchell, etc. Im not willing to just throw that away right now.
The Bucks & Denver look really vulnerable and Jokic/Giannis could outright walk.

I'm will to throw that chance away. The chance of Jokic or Giannis coming here are zero point zero, at least not as an outright free agent. In fact, if we wanted to go after one of those guys, we would be in better position by having Paul George's expiring contract to match plus future picks as incentive.

Lets ignore FA's then... what do people see in McCain. He's Seth Curry/Bryn Forbes. He's 6'2 with the same wingspan. Doesnt defend or create and just spots up and shoots 3's. HALF of his shots last year were 3's, and 80% of those were assisted.
He is the definition of a 6th man.

[payitforward]

McCain has shown he’s a legit player in the NBA....

I don't understand why you (& others) have come to this conclusion. He wasn't terrible as a rookie, but he wasn't much either....

Starting on the 8th game of the season, when Philly realized the kid was good, he got starter's minutes and proceeded to average 19 points per game shooting 56.2% from 2P range, 39.7% from 3P range and 85.4% from the FT line. Those aren't even per minute numbers. They were his actual stats.

He was 20 at the time.

Fair enough -- -- but his season ended after 590 minutes. I guess I'd have said "McCain has shown he can be a legit player in the NBA.

Meh... pay me no mind!

[nate33]

Again... You are asking the FO to pay $110M for Jared F'n McCain. You also need to take into account the opportunity cost of using that Cap space for another BOYD or a FA.

They HAVE to pay somebody. If not McCain, it'll likely be to overpay a RFA like Kessler or Mathurin. I like those guys on fair deals, but RFA signings usually mean an overpay.

BOYD deals are rarer and more expensive than you think. And they usually only result in SRP's because teams desperate to shed salary are also teams that have no picks to trade. We had to piece together a zillion BOYD deals and then combine all the SRP's just to get the Memphis pick last year. Go look around the league. How many bad contracts are there that teams will use FRP's to dump?

Lets say this team lucks into one of Peterson/AJ in the draft, Tre looks to be a solid 3rd/4th piece at the 2, and Sarr/George continue to improve, and we finish with something like 35-37 wins with a strong 2nd half next year.
The 2027 FA class has Jokic, Giannis, Donovan Mitchell, etc. Im not willing to just throw that away right now.
The Bucks & Denver look really vulnerable and Jokic/Giannis could outright walk.

I'm will to throw that chance away. The chance of Jokic or Giannis coming here are zero point zero, at least not as an outright free agent. In fact, if we wanted to go after one of those guys, we would be in better position by having Paul George's expiring contract to match plus future picks as incentive.

Lets ignore FA's then... what do people see in McCain. He's Seth Curry/Bryn Forbes. He's 6'2 with the same wingspan. Doesnt defend or create and just spots up and shoots 3's. HALF of his shots last year were 3's, and 80% of those were assisted.
He is the definition of a 6th man.

He is way more than just a spot-up guy:

Watch on YouTube

His limited wingspan is definitely a concern (though it's 6'-3.5", not 6'-2"). He has a robust frame and good feet (very good lane agility score) so I don't think he will be such a liability defensively. He was good defensively at Duke.

[nate33]

You guys make it seem like Ja is going to go for 3 FRP's and 2 pick swaps. His value is in the toilet right now. He's got 2 years left after this one. I'm fully aware of the off court stuff, but the absolute worse case scenario is that it doesn't work out and he moves on (either via free agency or trade), and we gave up nothing to take a shot.

I'm not sure I would take Ja Morant for free. Dude is a real distraction and a terrible locker room influence. Also, he is likely in the John Wall category of hyperathletic non-shooting guards whose games decline rapidly as soon as they lose a step. He is 26 already and very injury prone. I wouldn't be surprised if he sucks by age 30.

[AFM]

You guys make it seem like Ja is going to go for 3 FRP's and 2 pick swaps. His value is in the toilet right now. He's got 2 years left after this one. I'm fully aware of the off court stuff, but the absolute worse case scenario is that it doesn't work out and he moves on (either via free agency or trade), and we gave up nothing to take a shot.

I'm not sure I would take Ja Morant for free. Dude is a real distraction and a terrible locker room influence. Also, he is likely in the John Wall category of hyperathletic non-shooting guards whose games decline rapidly as soon as they lose a step. He is 26 already and very injury prone. I wouldn't be surprised if he sucks by age 30.

He is already declining...

[bsilver]

Why would McCain even be available? He's good and inexpensive. Quentin Grimes is more realistic for next year, though he does play the same position as Tre.

[nate33]

Why would McCain even be available? He's good and inexpensive. Quentin Grimes is more realistic for next year, though he does play the same position as Tre.

He would be available because they already have 2 star-caliber young guards in Maxey and VJ, and they might value $55M a year in cap flexibility to retain 3 or 4 good vets like Oubre, Grimes and a backup center more then they would value a 3rd guard who will never start for them and most likely wouldn't be retained when his rookie contract expires.

[The Consiglieri]

I don't.

Everything we've heard from management is that they aren't interested in shortcuts that limit the upside.

I understand that, but let's say the Wizards are unlucky in the lottery and pick 6 or 7 and everyone looks like they're going to take 2-3 years perhaps to develop. I understand patience but at some point you have to either fish or cut bait.

Why?

Why wouldn't they just tank again and go for a high pick next year? Only I think they will tank in the 28-win range not the demoralizing 15-18 win range.

I agree w/you. The reality here is that if we get hosed again, we just need to keep on keeping on.

The one caveat is that we are pretty unlucky in the reality that like '24, the '27 class supposedly sucks (man is it disappointing that 4 of our 5 potential tank years have featured either crap tank classes ('24 and '27), or a pick too low to probably make a transformative difference ('23 and '25) so far. Thankfully we've got Suns swaps in '28 and '30 as well.

[tontoz]

As a side note the 2019 draft class has been pretty disappointing. Top 2 picks Zion and Ja are two headcases. The rest of the first round is pretty meh.

[spaceman_E]

You guys make it seem like Ja is going to go for 3 FRP's and 2 pick swaps.

There's a large gap between 30th pick + expirings and 5 1's.

Healthy stars always have value to someone. Some teams are willing to gamble on talent, others want to sell tickets. I think realistic offers would be like
Rozier, filler, 1st +swap
Quickley and/or Barrett + throw ins on either side
Kuzma, Cole Anthony, 1st
Jalen Green + filler to get Suns out of tax
whatever the Wolves or Kings would send, likely requires 3rd team

[bsilver]

Why would McCain even be available? He's good and inexpensive. Quentin Grimes is more realistic for next year, though he does play the same position as Tre.

He would be available because they already have 2 star-caliber young guards in Maxey and VJ, and they might value $55M a year in cap flexibility to retain 3 or 4 good vets like Oubre, Grimes and a backup center more then they would value a 3rd guard who will never start for them and most likely wouldn't be retained when his rookie contract expires.

I assume you're referring to us taking Paul George's contract. It makes sense for them, but why would we consider paying 55M for this year and the next two for someone who may never play again and doesn't fit our timeline? Even if they add a FRP it wouldn't be a good one.

[tontoz]

Why would McCain even be available? He's good and inexpensive. Quentin Grimes is more realistic for next year, though he does play the same position as Tre.

He would be available because they already have 2 star-caliber young guards in Maxey and VJ, and they might value $55M a year in cap flexibility to retain 3 or 4 good vets like Oubre, Grimes and a backup center more then they would value a 3rd guard who will never start for them and most likely wouldn't be retained when his rookie contract expires.

I assume you're referring to us taking Paul George's contract. It makes sense for them, but why would we consider paying 55M for this year and the next two for someone who may never play again and doesn't fit our timeline? Even if they add a FRP it wouldn't be a good one.

This trade won't happen, but we have to do something big with our cap space just to reach the salary floor over the next two years.

[Dat2U]

Screw Ja (if we miss out DP), give me LaMelo if his physical checks out. His value has also dwindled (he won't cost a ton of picks) but he's still an elite offensive PG and he's 6-8 so defensively maybe not all is lost on that end.

[nate33]

Screw Ja (if we miss out DP), give me LaMelo if his physical checks out. His value has also dwindled (he won't cost a ton of picks) but he's still an elite offensive PG and he's 6-8 so defensively maybe not all is lost on that end.

Ball is definitely a better gamble than Ja, but I've heard too many Zach Lowe types in the media whisper about how unserious Ball is about his craft for me to ignore it. The guy just isn't a grinder. He isn't going to watch tape. He isn't going to listen to his coaches when they tell him the difference between a good shot or a bad shot. He is a clown.

Maybe, if the right type of franchise, like Miami or Boston gets a hold of him, they could get through to him. But our rebuild is still too young and the developing culture too fragile to take on a guy like Lamelo who could blow it all up.