Hawks @ Wizards - 01/12/13 7:00PM CSN

[Dark Faze]

Just got home from Verizon. Dropped my bro off after having literally every single Wizards fan try to pile onto one train and getting the door slammed in my face and having to wait another 20 minutes for the next one

Verizon wasn't full but it was rocking tonight for Walls return. It was really a great experience there tonight--well heated, smelled alright, fans were great. I had some of the highest seats there but I generally don't care much as long as I'm dead center, in fact you're going to actually see the game BETTER from that vantage point. You get a better look at court spacing than ever the broadcast view, and I could REALLY see how good guys were at certain things, especially defense.

- You can tell how good Wall is on man now. Like seriously he was ridiculous defensively tonight. Cutting guys off constantly, reacting well, and not giving too much spacing.

- I could see how awful Nene is defensively as well. He is just drek on D. It's unbelievable how slow he moves laterally and how many open lanes he gives up. For what it's worth he's blindingly fast and powerful with his first step offensively though.

- It's unbelievable how bad Wittmans rotations are. You get a sense for it while watching broadcast, but when you truly can see how bad certain players are playing in the real...it's cray. We didn't even get Wall/Beal/Webster/Nene until the last 6 minutes when we broke the game open.

- Wall and Beal were meant to play together.

- If Vesely ever becomes anything it's going to be because of Wall. He has potential when Wall is on the floor but looks useless when Wall isn't there.

- Smith looked really bad. Maybe he had a bad game but he looked to have almost zero offensive skills. Whoever maxes him out is going to regret it.

- The Hawks are less talented than the Wizards somehow.

[MJG]

Those pretty much are his averages

I want to see
24/11/5/2 from wall in 30mins
22/4/4/2 from beal in 30 mins
18/2 steals from webster in 26 mins
10/8 from nene in 23mins
10/10/3blks from okafor in 30 mins

What you're asking for are historically good numbers across the board. I recommend looking at some career numbers for those players (several of those stats would career highs for the players, by significant margins, in much lower minutes), and to also try typing in some of those averages into Basketball Reference (to get some context for what's even remotely possible).

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

jivelikenice, I said trade Wall while his value is high. If you know anything about me, I man up to what I say and I generally stick with my opinions to the end. What do I say now after Wall's first game? Tonight was John Wall's first really good game…

First observation: Something changed with the Wizards.

Washington didn't have any answers or enough to beat ATL before. They lost three before to ATL -- twice in OT and once by eight points. Perhaps, Wall makes a difference? Before this win, their largest margin of victory was 8 points to a not-so-good Orlando Magic. The Wizards have wins over Miami, OKC, and now ATL. They should have wins also over LAL and BOS, and IMO two or three more. That is besides the point. What makes tonight special is to win by double digits for the first time in 33 games and it happens to be the game Wall returns.

Next observation: Folks are happy Wall is back -- Hope springs eternal.

looking like an NBA team out there for now...

Wall to Beal for the slam!

OMG I just gotta slight chubby..................Wall/Beal Backcourt Baby!!!

Wall to Beal

I just cried a little

OH **** WALL WITH THE JUMPPER!!

Wall hitting the 16-footer! That could be huge for us.

Walls man to man defense is so under rated around here...

Wall to Beal again!!!

Walls man to man defense is so under rated around here...

Quoted for emphasis

Third observation: The team is built for defense. Wall perhaps turbocharges the defense.

I discount his offense and leadership ability. However, if Wall's transition speed and his defensive skill give the team a huge boost defensively, who cares about my previous concerns?

My thoughts on how this game has affected my thoughts on Wall:

Let's see a few more games. The initial report is positive. I think about Washington putting together a trade package for DeMarcus Cousins. Seraphin, Crawford, and a future pick but not a pick in this draft might be good. HOWEVER, the real concerns for me are Wall's knee and his contract moving forward. Let's see a few more games.

You cannot replace hope and joy. If people are excited to have Wall back and this team responds, that changes things in my eyes. Yet, one game is too early to sway too much either way. I look at things strategically, a long ways out. A lot of you think more with your hearts IMO, and maybe I need a bigger heart.

OTOH you guys might be better off thinking with your heads and not your hearts. IDK

(PS -- This draft features some really good players. Any Wall trade idea would be intended to yield a player like McLemore, Smart, Muhammed, Cody Zeller, etc. My premise is there is maybe even better talent on the horizon that might be on rookie deals. Remember what SVG said about Wall? I happen to agree with SVG.)

[jivelikenice]

One question on the rotation, whee was Webster in the 4th?

[Dark Faze]

I hope you're right about this being a deeper draft than it looks...because we're probably going to play ourselves into a 5th overall.

[Knighthonor]

- It's unbelievable how bad Wittmans rotations are. You get a sense for it while watching broadcast, but when you truly can see how bad certain players are playing in the real...it's cray. We didn't even get Wall/Beal/Webster/Nene until the last 6 minutes when we broke the game open.
I said the same thing. Something seems fishy about it. I calling a red flag. Seem like Wittman is trying to make bad rotations on purpose. Conspiracy but why? thats the question.

- Wall and Beal were meant to play together.

- If Vesely ever becomes anything it's going to be because of Wall. He has potential when Wall is on the floor but looks useless when Wall isn't there.
I said this a month ago. Got bashed. But Vesly isnt confident right now. He built an comfort with Wall last season to gain confidence. Wall news came out that he was injured after the summer games and wasnt going to play. Which is when we notice Vesly somehow got worst than he was in the summer league.

[AWIZZINGBULLET]

jivelikenice, I said trade Wall while his value is high. If you know anything about me, I man up to what I say and I generally stick with my opinions to the end. What do I say now after Wall's first game? Tonight was John Wall's first really good game…

First observation: Something changed with the Wizards.

Washington didn't have any answers or enough to beat ATL before. They lost three before to ATL -- twice in OT and once by eight points. Perhaps, Wall makes a difference? Before this win, their largest margin of victory was 8 points to a not-so-good Orlando Magic. The Wizards have wins over Miami, OKC, and now ATL. They should have wins also over LAL and BOS, and IMO two or three more. That is besides the point. What makes tonight special is to win by double digits for the first time in 33 games and it happens to be the game Wall returns.

Next observation: Folks are happy Wall is back -- Hope springs eternal.

looking like an NBA team out there for now...

Wall to Beal for the slam!

OMG I just gotta slight chubby..................Wall/Beal Backcourt Baby!!!

Wall to Beal

I just cried a little

OH **** WALL WITH THE JUMPPER!!

Wall hitting the 16-footer! That could be huge for us.

Walls man to man defense is so under rated around here...

Wall to Beal again!!!

Walls man to man defense is so under rated around here...

Quoted for emphasis

Third observation: The team is built for defense. Wall perhaps turbocharges the defense.

I discount his offense and leadership ability. However, if Wall's transition speed and his defensive skill give the team a huge boost defensively, who cares about my previous concerns?

My thoughts on how this game has affected my thoughts on Wall:

Let's see a few more games. The initial report is positive. I think about Washington putting together a trade package for DeMarcus Cousins. Seraphin, Crawford, and a future pick but not a pick in this draft might be good. HOWEVER, the real concerns for me are Wall's knee and his contract moving forward. Let's see a few more games.

You cannot replace hope and joy. If people are excited to have Wall back and this team responds, that changes things in my eyes. Yet, one game is too early to sway too much either way. I look at things strategically, a long ways out. A lot of you think more with your hearts IMO, and maybe I need a bigger heart.

OTOH you guys might be better off thinking with your heads and not your hearts. IDK

(PS -- This draft features some really good players. Any Wall trade idea would be intended to yield a player like McLemore, Smart, Muhammed, Cody Zeller, etc. My premise is there is maybe even better talent on the horizon that might be on rookie deals. Remember what SVG said about Wall? I happen to agree with SVG.)

I sort of flipped last week on this poster from another team for even talking about the Wizards trading Wall to his team and I promptly got my message removed and replaced with a be nice, you may have hurt his feelings-like message from one of the moderators; I get angry when I see Wizards' fans entertaining trade possibilities involving John Wall, but especially with fans from other teams. What I don't get is why people don't see what Wall brings. He is the life force of the team. How can fans who have been forced by injuries to be witness to woeful play at times and a league worst record fail to see what the Wizards have in Wall? Wall is a bonafide star, he proved that last night, every good team has theirs. From a sales perpsective, lose Wall and the franchise has zero starpower. Wall's presence on the floor bumps up everyone's will to win and play as though they belong on an NBA court because of his desire. Without Wall a certain energy and focus just isn't there.

Wall his first two seasons averaged 8 assists a season, Steve Nash didn't even do that until his last season in Dallas and he was playing with a better cast of players.

It wasn't a real game, but I'll never overlook the fact that Wall set a new rookie record for assists in an All-Star game. I think it's proof of how much more productive Wall can be if you put great talent around him.

P.S. No player in this draft equals or impacts the Wizards the way that Wall does. *SVG was pretty stupid to make such a call going off of just two seasons*

[blazinskillz]

^^^
I agree with everything you said(cept that it was SVG not JVG that said that). There are a lot of players I feel John is on the same level with or near but he doesnt get much props because his team sucks. Kyrie may be a better scorer than Wall(by a lot) but Wall's passing, playmaking and defense is >>>

There are only a few PG in the league that are clearly better than Wall and that's

Parker
Rose
Paul
Wesbrook
Rondo
------------------------------------
I feel like Wall's at least on par with the 2nd group. *It should be noted that outside of the Kyrie maybe, Wall has had the worst supporting cast*
Deron Williams
Jrue
Rubio
Curry
Kyrie
Lillard


Injures aside, Wall is a star in the making. Only Grunfield and a jumpshot can stop him
from becoming the best PG in the league. Last night he didnt have any steals but he caused 3 forced to's as soon as he checked in and Beal picked up 2 steals because of that. People rave about Rubio but Wall's impact is greater than his because he can score and they're almost about a wash on passing with the slight edge to Rubio. I just wish the Wizards fans would support John lke other teams support their star PG. I think a lot of wiz fans are scared to give Wall props to make it seem like their not a homer on the general board.

[blazinskillz]

[Upper Decker]

Maybe I missed it, but why was crawford inactive again? Injury? Trade?

[AWIZZINGBULLET]

^^^
[b]I agree with everything you said(cept that it was SVG not JVG that said that).[/b] There are a lot of players I feel John is on the same level with or near but he doesnt get much props because his team sucks. Kyrie may be a better scorer than Wall(by a lot) but Wall's passing, playmaking and defense is >>>

There are only a few PG in the league that are clearly better than Wall and that's

Parker
Rose
Paul
Wesbrook
Rondo
------------------------------------
I feel like Wall's at least on par with the 2nd group. *It should be noted that outside of the Kyrie maybe, Wall has had the worst supporting cast*
Deron Williams
Jrue
Rubio
Curry
Kyrie
Lillard


Injures aside, Wall is a star in the making. Only Grunfield and a jumpshot can stop him
from becoming the best PG in the league. Last night he didnt have any steals but he caused 3 forced to's as soon as he checked in and Beal picked up 2 steals because of that. People rave about Rubio but Wall's impact is greater than his because he can score and they're almost about a wash on passing with the slight edge to Rubio. I just wish the Wizards fans would support John lke other teams support their star PG. I think a lot of wiz fans are scared to give Wall props to make it seem like their not a homer on the general board.

Nice point out, I could've sworn it was the other Van Gundy when I first read read it, I tried to fix that but thanks LOL. Naw, but seriously Irving could easily be picked apart for his low assists average but I think his shooting ability leads people to think that he's by far the more complete PG when his assists totals don't say that and he also needs to work on cutting down on turnovers.

I'm cutting Irving no slack, the Cavs are averaging more points than the Wizards this season and we'll see how things plays out as the season progresses with Wall back, but as of last season the two teams' points average were about the same, Wall was just better at getting his teammates easy points.

[AWIZZINGBULLET]

Maybe I missed it, but why was crawford inactive again? Injury? Trade?

I'm guessing injury, although I think he'll be traded.

[jivelikenice]

Maybe I missed it, but why was crawford inactive again? Injury? Trade?

Supposedly an injury....something seems fishy

[other21]

Maybe I missed it, but why was crawford inactive again? Injury? Trade?

Supposedly an injury....something seems fishy

Especially since I read that he was at practice the other day. I smell it too

[Ruzious]

Maybe I missed it, but why was crawford inactive again? Injury? Trade?

It appears to be a legit ankle injury. The Wash Post said he hasn't practiced since he re-dinged it on Monday. Otoh, at the beginning of each telecast, they give an injury update for each team. There was nobody listed for Washington. Phil or Buck even commented that it was the first time all season that the Wiz had no injuries. Hmm.

The stats don't really show it, but I thought Ariza played very well. He was unselfish, really passed the ball around well, and he is a top defender. On the season, while his shooting has been terrible, he's gotten 8 rebounds and 3 steals per 40 minutes. Overall, he might be a better fit with Wall than Webster is. And was it just me, or does AJ Price look like an above average backup PG? He did a nice job of running the offense when he was in. But there's no doubt that he needs to improve his shooting percentages. Sorry, but I am not a Garrett Temple believer. He just does not have offensive ability. Kudos to him for making it to the NBA, but he shouldn't be on the floor except at the end of blowouts.

Grrrrrrrrrrrreat to see Wall back. It was very predictable that the Wiz would have one of their best games - with the crowd and players getting pumped up by Wall's return and the team being more healthy than it's been all season. Wall's ability to get to the rim makes a huge difference in the Wiz' offensive capability.

[closg00]

FWIW, ATL was playing it's 2nd B2B game of the week and have lost 5 of their last 6 games.

[AWIZZINGBULLET]

FWIW, ATL was playing it's 2nd B2B game of the week and have lost 5 of their last 6 games.

The Wizards have found ways to lose no matter what the other teams circumstances were. This is what the outcome was supposed to look like, not sure it does without Wall providing that lift.

[nate33]

The stats don't really show it, but I thought Ariza played very well. He was unselfish, really passed the ball around well, and he is a top defender. On the season, while his shooting has been terrible, he's gotten 8 rebounds and 3 steals per 40 minutes. Overall, he might be a better fit with Wall than Webster is. And was it just me, or does AJ Price look like an above average backup PG? He did a nice job of running the offense when he was in. But there's no doubt that he needs to improve his shooting percentages. Sorry, but I am not a Garrett Temple believer. He just does not have offensive ability. Kudos to him for making it to the NBA, but he shouldn't be on the floor except at the end of blowouts.

I agree that Ariza has played well and is probably a bit more effective out there than many (including myself) give him credit for. But I still think Webster is the better fit in the starting lineup. Webster is deadly with the corner 3. He is currently shooting 49% from there and his ability to space the floor really makes the offense run smoother (particularly with Wall). And although he isn't as disruptive of a defender in the passing lanes as Ariza, I think Webster is pretty solid on defense. It's nice to have Ariza around though, to bring in to slow down any wing who gets hot.

If nothing else, Wittman should find a way to boost Ariza's minutes without cutting Webster's. Webster can slide over to SG when Beal sits. Or, alternatively, Ariza's rebounding should allow him to steal a few minutes at PF alongside Webster. It's not like we're getting good play from the PF spot from anyone else on the roster besides Nene.

I agree with you about Temple and have been a somewhat lonely voice on the matter since you left the board. Temple has been a nice find for a D-Leaguer and he has managed to run the offense more effectively than Mack or Livingston, but he's definitely not a legit rotation player in this league. It's fine to have him at the end of the bench as versatile 5th guard who can fill in for an injured player at PG, SG or SF, and maybe play a little D out there, but people need to stop deluding themselves into believing he is anything more than that.

[closg00]

FWIW, ATL was playing it's 2nd B2B game of the week and have lost 5 of their last 6 games.

The Wizards have found ways to lose no matter what the other teams circumstances were. This is what the outcome was supposed to look like, not sure it does without Wall providing that lift.

We probably don't win last night w/o Wall, when we needed a crucial bucket to stop a run or drought, he finished at the rim.

John's shot looks exactly the same as I last remember it - awful, but he's working towards Rondo-like respectability.

[AWIZZINGBULLET]

FWIW, ATL was playing it's 2nd B2B game of the week and have lost 5 of their last 6 games.

The Wizards have found ways to lose no matter what the other teams circumstances were. This is what the outcome was supposed to look like, not sure it does without Wall providing that lift.

We probably don't win last night w/o Wall, when we needed a crucial bucket to stop a run or drought, he finished at the rim.

John's shot looks exactly the same as I last remember it - awful, but he's working towards Rondo-like respectability.

I saw him hit one, airball one, so I really can't say. His form and release looks the same, but I think it's too early to tell how far along he's come with the work he put in to improve it. I've always thought that Wall released his shot too late on his way down in the jump, taking away from the strength and accuracy of his shot. Guys have their way off shooting even if it's not textbook, it can work when they come as close as possible to perfecting it though.