Countdown to Ernie Grunfeld Firing (Part 2)

[hands11]

Question....

Are we paying for Kendall Marshall and Brown right now ?

[montestewart]

Question....

Are we paying for Kendall Marshall and Brown right now ?

According to Hoopshype, Shannon Brown @ $3.5 million and Kendall Marshall @ $2 million. Yep.

[payitforward]

Question....

Are we paying for Kendall Marshall and Brown right now ?

Yes, obviously.

To make a trade of Okafor's $14m salary (plus a pick) for Gortat's $7.7m salary work, we had to take on more pieces. That's why Brown and Marshall were in the trade. We waived them, but of course that didn't let us out of the contractual obligations to them. So, yeah, they are costing us $5.5m this year.

[hands11]

Question....

Are we paying for Kendall Marshall and Brown right now ?

According to Hoopshype, Shannon Brown @ $3.5 million and Kendall Marshall @ $2 million. Yep.

So we could have just cut Singleton instead and tried out Kendall Marshall and it would cost us no different.

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/playe ... int-guards

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/_/i ... l-marshall

Between Maynor and this, how can Ted possible keep him after his contract is up. I can't see that he will.

[payitforward]

Question....

Are we paying for Kendall Marshall and Brown right now ?

According to Hoopshype, Shannon Brown @ $3.5 million and Kendall Marshall @ $2 million. Yep.

So we could have just cut Singleton instead and tried out Kendall Marshall and it would cost us no different.

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/playe ... int-guards

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/_/i ... l-marshall

Between Maynor and this, how can Ted possible keep him after his contract is up. I can't see that he will.

The trade was made before the season started.

Did you suggest back then that we cut Singleton and keep Marshall? Weren't you in favor of our signing Maynor in the first place? Didn't you say we needed a veteran upgrade at the backup PG position?

[hands11]

According to Hoopshype, Shannon Brown @ $3.5 million and Kendall Marshall @ $2 million. Yep.

So we could have just cut Singleton instead and tried out Kendall Marshall and it would cost us no different.

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/playe ... int-guards

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/_/i ... l-marshall

Between Maynor and this, how can Ted possible keep him after his contract is up. I can't see that he will.

The trade was made before the season started.

Did you suggest back then that we cut Singleton and keep Marshall? Weren't you in favor of our signing Maynor in the first place? Didn't you say we needed a veteran upgrade at the backup PG position?

No, you are wrong. I wasn't in favor of signing Maynor and Singleton was not the player I wanted to draft. Once he was a Wizard, I pulled for him like I do almost every player we have.

Yes I was in favor of a PG upgrade given they wouldn't let Crawford do it but Crawford should have gotten a chance to do it first. I said that a ton of times. Since they wouldn't let Crawford do it, of the players we actually had a chance of getting.. Collison was my favorite but I didn't think we could get him nor did I think we could get Nate, so Beno was the one I thought we could. Price and Maynor I didn't want. Nor did I want Mack at PG.

Stop going so out of your way to be a DB PIFF. Its old. If you want to talk Wizards, let do it. If you want to do your PIF thing, I told you before... not interested. I can't even believe I replied to your post given its tone.

[mohammed10]

So we could have just cut Singleton instead and tried out Kendall Marshall and it would cost us no different.

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/playe ... int-guards

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/_/i ... l-marshall

Between Maynor and this, how can Ted possible keep him after his contract is up. I can't see that he will.

Did you forget??? You are talking about Turd, you know...

[hands11]

So we could have just cut Singleton instead and tried out Kendall Marshall and it would cost us no different.

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/playe ... int-guards

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/_/i ... l-marshall

Between Maynor and this, how can Ted possible keep him after his contract is up. I can't see that he will.

Did you forget??? You are talking about Turd, you know...

I guess this part of the situation slipped past me since so much was going on. The season was about to start, Okafor went down and they added Gortat. Sometimes these contracts can have buyouts to them so I wasn't sure of the details regarding these two.

I can't remember the exact sequence of events off hand. Was Singleton already injured ?
I recall CCJ saying give Kendall a shot. Other then that, most where focused on the session starting. I mean the kid flamed out at PHX who was supposed to suck.

I wonder what Gortat provided regarding inside information about him. I do remember his reputation out of college was as a floor general great assist player that didn't have good offense. Someone that would be a development player. But hey, so was MCW who was drafted in the same range the following year.

I just wonder what Ted and the team thinks about all this watching the young man step up and knowing they could have had him. Knowing they need PG help and knowing they are actually still paying for him. He is costing us 2M. He is costing LAL $547,570

Great move for the Lakers as was picking up Ryan Kelly $490,180 They are really helping their cap picking up these cheap players to audition while they tank and reload.

[payitforward]

No, you are wrong. I wasn't in favor of signing Maynor...

...I can't even believe I replied to your post given its tone.

Now Hands -- I'm one of your biggest supporters; I enjoy all your "I already suggested that, because I already knew that, because I'm right" posts. But I think you can take some ribbing, amigo! Come on....

In the "Grade the Offseason" thread, you wrote:

They had a first hand look at Price running the PG. Upgrading to a PG that can run an offense was one key off season move they needed to make. I think they did that. Nate is a scorer more then anything. And I wouldn't be so sure they could have gotten him. So I disagree with lowering the grade based on this.

In short, you approved of the Maynor signing -- no downgrading the offseason grade for that move: they needed "upgrading" and you "think they did that."

So you were wrong -- so big deal! Everybody gets to be wrong sometimes. I was wrong about Landry Fields. I admit it. Now lets hear you admit you were wrong in what you wrote above. After all... you were!

[verbal8]

Question....

Are we paying for Kendall Marshall and Brown right now ?

Yes, obviously.

To make a trade of Okafor's $14m salary (plus a pick) for Gortat's $7.7m salary work, we had to take on more pieces. That's why Brown and Marshall were in the trade. We waived them, but of course that didn't let us out of the contractual obligations to them. So, yeah, they are costing us $5.5m this year.

Not to nitpick, but the salaries didn't have to match. Phoenix is sitting on 5 million in cap space. They could have used it to acquire Okafor.

In addition to the flexibility of having space under the luxury tax, a straight up deal would have given the Wizards a TPE of the difference.

You won't get an All-Star for a TPE, but who is to say that Derrick Williams, Andre Miller or Hinrich wouldn't be available for it. Not great players, but guys who could help with the depth situation.

[tontoz]

No, you are wrong. I wasn't in favor of signing Maynor...

...I can't even believe I replied to your post given its tone.

Now Hands -- I'm one of your biggest supporters; I enjoy all your "I already suggested that, because I already knew that, because I'm right" posts. But I think you can take some ribbing, amigo! Come on....

In the "Grade the Offseason" thread, you wrote:

They had a first hand look at Price running the PG. Upgrading to a PG that can run an offense was one key off season move they needed to make. I think they did that. Nate is a scorer more then anything. And I wouldn't be so sure they could have gotten him. So I disagree with lowering the grade based on this.

In short, you approved of the Maynor signing -- no downgrading the offseason grade for that move: they needed "upgrading" and you "think they did that."

So you were wrong -- so big deal! Everybody gets to be wrong sometimes. I was wrong about Landry Fields. I admit it. Now lets hear you admit you were wrong in what you wrote above. After all... you were!

He has a very selective memory.

[payitforward]

Question....

Are we paying for Kendall Marshall and Brown right now ?

Yes, obviously.

To make a trade of Okafor's $14m salary (plus a pick) for Gortat's $7.7m salary work, we had to take on more pieces. That's why Brown and Marshall were in the trade. We waived them, but of course that didn't let us out of the contractual obligations to them. So, yeah, they are costing us $5.5m this year.

Not to nitpick, but the salaries didn't have to match. Phoenix is sitting on 5 million in cap space. They could have used it to acquire Okafor.

In addition to the flexibility of having space under the luxury tax, a straight up deal would have given the Wizards a TPE of the difference.

You won't get an All-Star for a TPE, but who is to say that Derrick Williams, Andre Miller or Hinrich wouldn't be available for it. Not great players, but guys who could help with the depth situation.

You're not nitpicking -- how the rules work is always complicated, and any info is useful.

All the same, I wonder whether you are right in this case -- is there a CBA maven who can confirm V8's comment

If so, then the trade was even worse than I thought! I.e. if we could have acquired Gortat and cap space for Okafor that would obviously have been better than eating their sh*t as we did (yes, Marshall has turned out to be pretty good -- but nothing he'd done so far would have made anyone expect that).

Of course they'd have had no reason to give us that straight up -- but that's what the pick would have compensated for.

[payitforward]

No, you are wrong. I wasn't in favor of signing Maynor...

...I can't even believe I replied to your post given its tone.

Now Hands -- I'm one of your biggest supporters; I enjoy all your "I already suggested that, because I already knew that, because I'm right" posts. But I think you can take some ribbing, amigo! Come on....

In the "Grade the Offseason" thread, you wrote:

They had a first hand look at Price running the PG. Upgrading to a PG that can run an offense was one key off season move they needed to make. I think they did that. Nate is a scorer more then anything. And I wouldn't be so sure they could have gotten him. So I disagree with lowering the grade based on this.

In short, you approved of the Maynor signing -- no downgrading the offseason grade for that move: they needed "upgrading" and you "think they did that."

So you were wrong -- so big deal! Everybody gets to be wrong sometimes. I was wrong about Landry Fields. I admit it. Now lets hear you admit you were wrong in what you wrote above. After all... you were!

He has a very selective memory.

Tho we all remember the times we were right more easily than the times we were wrong, I do think Hands has a special affection for being "right," so yes he has a very selective memory.

Not to mention that being on most sides of most issues at one point or another, whatever happens he has a memory of being right.

[Zonkerbl]

Hey! Thread is getting off topic.

Hands is not our GM. Firing him won't help the wizards. Only make Hands very sad.

[Zonkerbl]

What angers you the most about EG?

For me it's frustrating seeing amateur GMs identify good players -- just by looking at their statistics! -- having those players be passed up by EG, and then seeing them end up performing as predicted.

I know there's a confirmation bias -- sure, there's lots of other players that should've been good but haven't, but still.

Steph Curry, Faried, Blair, Jae Crowder, I think are the ones that come to me off the top of my head. And Wolters. Who we had IN OUR HANDS.

It's one thing to have 20/20 hindsight and be like, oh, we should've drafted Kawhi Leonard. Because you can't predict that someone's going to develop a skill (three point range) they didn't have in college. But it's another thing entirely to miss out on a player who is performing now exactly as predicted based on their college statistics. That's what frustrates me the most.

[Nivek]

If you heard the conversations I had about Crowder with a member of their front office...well, you'd be even more frustrated.

[FAH1223]

If you heard the conversations I had about Crowder with a member of their front office...well, you'd be even more frustrated.

What did they say?

[montestewart]

If you heard the conversations I had about Crowder with a member of their front office...well, you'd be even more frustrated.

A) "We were all of the same mindset on that one"
B) "We were all on the same page with that one"
C) "We marched in lockstep over that one"
D) "We employed groupthink for that one"
??

[Zonkerbl]

Hm...
Crowder's straight up stats are kinda underwhelming...

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/6581/jae-crowder

But he looks great on 82games:

http://www.82games.com/1314/1314DAL.HTM

[Nivek]

If you heard the conversations I had about Crowder with a member of their front office...well, you'd be even more frustrated.

What did they say?

This guy talked about how they liked and respected Crowder. Said that Crowder did very well in their statistical models. And then dismissed the stats because he has "less than ideal size." I suggested he'd be a good pick in the 2nd round. There was some noncommittal muttering about seeing who was available at that spot.

And, they picked Satoransky instead.

Now, Crowder isn't a star. He probably won't ever be a star. He is a productive player, though -- reasonably efficient on offense, and making a significant impact on defense. He's very much the player I anticipated he'd be: tough, hard-working, and pretty good. Given that he plays hard, works hard, and is smart and competitive, there's every reason to think he'll continue improving.