Wizards Trade for Andre Miller

[Nivek]

practically nobody misses Shelvin Mack. He's hardly distinguishing himself.

Disagree. Mack is having a good year for Atlanta. If they'd kept him (remember, they cut him twice to keep less productive players), they wouldn't have needed to go find a backup PG.

good compared to what?

I didn't see anything last night that made me say, dang, we shoulda just kept Shelvin.
OK, maybe he's not horrible, like Maynor. But still.

I liked AJ Price but he's totally fallen off the radar, can't play on a team with
both Rubio and Barea.

He has a PPA of 92, which is a little below average, but more than adequate for a backup PG. He's miles more productive than either Maynor or Temple despite meh defense. He's assisting, but not turning it over (3-1 ast/tov ratio), shooting well (.367 from 3pt range, 80+% from the FT line), getting steals -- even rebounding decently for a PG. He's a solid player.

[dobrojim]

Yes, and he will receive kudos for the move. First he drafts Vesely (ouch), then takes Maynor (double ouch), then fixes it by giving away 2 second round picks...

Wasn't it just one second round pick? And the Zards didn't exactly give that pick away, they did get a much-needed upgrade at back-up PG.

Wizards send Jan Vesely to Denver and Eric Maynor plus two second-round picks to the Sixers. Basically EG screws up the 6th pick in the draft, the BAE and then "fixes" it by shipping out two second round picks. Can't spin this as good - just can't find a way to do it...

1 pick, probably mid 2nd rnd.

you don't see an upside to being rid of Maynor and Ves? In exchange for a guy with
at least some marginal utility?

[pineappleheadindc]

sorry - not superstitious

unless it's Ji

When one of our starters goes down next game, I'm bumping this thread and highlighting your post so others can blame you.

[dobrojim]

sorry - not superstitious

unless it's Ji

When one of our starters goes down next game, I'm bumping this thread and highlighting your post so others can blame you.

nice to be reminded who your friends are

[AFM]

Disagree. Mack is having a good year for Atlanta. If they'd kept him (remember, they cut him twice to keep less productive players), they wouldn't have needed to go find a backup PG.

good compared to what?

I didn't see anything last night that made me say, dang, we shoulda just kept Shelvin.
OK, maybe he's not horrible, like Maynor. But still.

I liked AJ Price but he's totally fallen off the radar, can't play on a team with
both Rubio and Barea.

He has a PPA of 92, which is a little below average, but more than adequate for a backup PG. He's miles more productive than either Maynor or Temple despite meh defense. He's assisting, but not turning it over (3-1 ast/tov ratio), shooting well (.367 from 3pt range, 80+% from the FT line), getting steals -- even rebounding decently for a PG. He's a solid player.

Stop teasing us and tell us about Miller's PPA!!!!!

[dckingsfan]

Wasn't it just one second round pick? And the Zards didn't exactly give that pick away, they did get a much-needed upgrade at back-up PG.

Wizards send Jan Vesely to Denver and Eric Maynor plus two second-round picks to the Sixers. Basically EG screws up the 6th pick in the draft, the BAE and then "fixes" it by shipping out two second round picks. Can't spin this as good - just can't find a way to do it...

1 pick, probably mid 2nd rnd.

you don't see an upside to being rid of Maynor and Ves? In exchange for a guy with
at least some marginal utility?

Actually that is my point... Vesely and Maynor should never have been here in the first place - and then the brilliant move to get rid of them just costs us a couple of 2nd round picks

[nate33]

The best part about this trade is that all the Vesely defenders will finally be proven wrong when Vesely proceeds to stink it up in Denver just as much as he stunk it up here. Vesely wasn't misused. He sucked.

Overall, I can live with the deal. If we're going to sacrifice a moderately useful future asset, at least we dumped Maynor and acquired a genuinely effective ball player in Miller rather than going after a barely-better-than-D-League caliber guy like Udrih.

I'm still despondent about this team's future though. It's pretty clear to me that we are peaking as a franchise right about now. Wall isn't going to get THAT much better and outside of Beal, everyone else is going to get worse. If you look at our top 6 players excluding Wall and Beal (that would be Nene, Ariza, Webster, Gortat, Miller and Booker), their average age is 30. So if you ignore Beal and Wall, our top 8 would form the OLDEST TEAM IN THE LEAGUE.

This is why I have stopped caring. I haven't watched more than 3 minutes of any of the last 4 games. What's the point? The team is going all in for the 5th seed only to fade into mediocrity over the next 3 years as Nene and the rest of the geezers decline while Philly, Orlando, Atlanta, Detroit, Toronto and Chicago improve.

[Hypnotizer]

I like Nene-Miller reunion. Maynor and Jan traded? I like it even more.

[Illmatic21]

I'm a little concerned about Miller's potential attitude. He clearly still wants to play starter minutes. He may even be good enough to deserve most of them.

That means he will need to backup both Wall and Beal in order to be happy... a scenario that will require rotational finesse we have rarely seen from Randy. There's potential for this to go sour in the locker room if Miller is getting 12 minutes one night and 25 the next.

Maybe the above is just decades of failure pushing me towards pessimism, lol.

Miller wasn't mad about not starting, he was mad about getting DNPed and breaking his insane games played streak. And I can kinda sympathize with him there.. either Shaw didn't know he had the streak going, or he just decided to be an ahole

That won't be a problem here, he's certainly not gonna get DNPed seeing as he's our best PG off the bench.

[dobrojim]

for the umpteenth time, it's one pick.

we all agree it's EG cleaning up his own crapsack of a mess.

but the deal itself is probably helpful

[Hypnotizer]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/MGortat/status/436589028134383616[/tweet]

[dckingsfan]

I'm still despondent about this team's future though. It's pretty clear to me that we are peaking as a franchise right about now. Wall isn't going to get THAT much better and outside of Beal, everyone else is going to get worse. If you look at our top 6 players excluding Wall and Beal (that would be Nene, Ariza, Webster, Gortat, Miller and Booker), their average age is 30. So if you ignore Beal and Wall, our top 8 would form the OLDEST TEAM IN THE LEAGUE.

But at least it is a bunch of old guys that don't have a history of injury...

[Illuminaire]

I'm a little concerned about Miller's potential attitude. He clearly still wants to play starter minutes. He may even be good enough to deserve most of them.

That means he will need to backup both Wall and Beal in order to be happy... a scenario that will require rotational finesse we have rarely seen from Randy. There's potential for this to go sour in the locker room if Miller is getting 12 minutes one night and 25 the next.

Maybe the above is just decades of failure pushing me towards pessimism, lol.

Miller wasn't mad about not starting, he was mad about getting DNPed and breaking his insane games played streak. And I can kinda sympathize with him there.. either Shaw didn't know he had the streak going, or he just decided to be an ahole

That won't be a problem here, he's certainly not gonna get DNPed seeing as he's our best PG off the bench.

Fair points!

[AFM]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQrNYIBw3fw[/youtube]

How can you not like this guy?

[dobrojim]

The best part about this trade is that all the Vesely defenders will finally be proven wrong when Vesely proceeds to stink it up in Denver just as much as he stunk it up here. Vesely wasn't misused. He sucked.

Overall, I can live with the deal. If we're going to sacrifice a moderately useful future asset, at least we dumped Maynor and acquired a genuinely effective ball player in Miller rather than going after a barely-better-than-D-League caliber guy like Udrih.

I'm still despondent about this team's future though. It's pretty clear to me that we are peaking as a franchise right about now. Wall isn't going to get THAT much better and outside of Beal, everyone else is going to get worse. If you look at our top 6 players excluding Wall and Beal (that would be Nene, Ariza, Webster, Gortat, Miller and Booker), their average age is 30. So if you ignore Beal and Wall, our top 8 would form the OLDEST TEAM IN THE LEAGUE.

This is why I have stopped caring. I haven't watched more than 3 minutes of any of the last 4 games. What's the point? The team is going all in for the 5th seed only to fade into mediocrity over the next 3 years as Nene and the rest of the geezers decline while Philly, Orlando, Atlanta, Detroit, Toronto and Chicago improve.

re Ves - will see if that is now put to the test. Will he get meaningful minutes?
Or will the argument just go on forever?

Re the future - I think there is a decent chance Wall continues to improve for another 3-5 years.
It's in his personality. Beal is pretty likely to get better. Porter may even show himself. He's a big
question mark purely due to lack of really meaningful data.

re those other teams - PHL can't get worse and that's their plan. OK.
ORL also should get better depending on where/who they draft.
Why should ATL get better?
DET has a guy arguably as inept as EG running the show there.
Hard to make a great case for them.

TOR is on the upswing for sure, but they could lose Lowry who is peaking.
They are also at a point where it becomes a lot harder to continue to improve.
They could become what the Hawks were a few years ago, A solid mid-seed playoff
team with little chance to get better.

CHI? They got Thibs and what else?

I'm not seeing quite as bleak a future as you seem to be. Or maybe quite as rosy
a future for those other teams.

[closg00]

Grunfelded and all aboard the playoff bus.

Hey - that's my term! I claim patent rights! jk

Indeed, you did coin that brilliance, I didn't remember your full user-name. Thanks!!

[Nivek]

good compared to what?

I didn't see anything last night that made me say, dang, we shoulda just kept Shelvin.
OK, maybe he's not horrible, like Maynor. But still.

I liked AJ Price but he's totally fallen off the radar, can't play on a team with
both Rubio and Barea.

He has a PPA of 92, which is a little below average, but more than adequate for a backup PG. He's miles more productive than either Maynor or Temple despite meh defense. He's assisting, but not turning it over (3-1 ast/tov ratio), shooting well (.367 from 3pt range, 80+% from the FT line), getting steals -- even rebounding decently for a PG. He's a solid player.

Stop teasing us and tell us about Miller's PPA!!!!!

Here ya go:

2013-14 -- 94
2012-13 -- 96
2011-12 -- 84
2010-11 -- 141

Given age and layoff, I'd anticipate something in the 75-90 range, which would be a HUGE upgrade over Temple (now up to a 20 for the season) and Maynor (8).

[fishercob]

The best part about this trade is that all the Vesely defenders will finally be proven wrong when Vesely proceeds to stink it up in Denver just as much as he stunk it up here. Vesely wasn't misused. He sucked.

Overall, I can live with the deal. If we're going to sacrifice a moderately useful future asset, at least we dumped Maynor and acquired a genuinely effective ball player in Miller rather than going after a barely-better-than-D-League caliber guy like Udrih.

I'm still despondent about this team's future though. It's pretty clear to me that we are peaking as a franchise right about now. Wall isn't going to get THAT much better and outside of Beal, everyone else is going to get worse. If you look at our top 6 players excluding Wall and Beal (that would be Nene, Ariza, Webster, Gortat, Miller and Booker), their average age is 30. So if you ignore Beal and Wall, our top 8 would form the OLDEST TEAM IN THE LEAGUE.

This is why I have stopped caring. I haven't watched more than 3 minutes of any of the last 4 games. What's the point? The team is going all in for the 5th seed only to fade into mediocrity over the next 3 years as Nene and the rest of the geezers decline while Philly, Orlando, Atlanta, Detroit, Toronto and Chicago improve.

I agree with Jimmy -- there's more collective upside and improvement in Wall, Beal and Porter than there is downside in Nene and Gortat. I think on balance we improve. Our situation is not unsalvagable. We just need to replace Ernie with a new-age forward thinker.

I'd like to get an updated look at our salary picture for next year. If we decide to keep Dre, could we land a useful big with the MLE and stay under the luxtax? What to do with our 3 SFs? Perhaps there's a way to extract an asset there.

Just gotta get rid of that gum-smacking buffoon.

[dobrojim]

Disagree. Mack is having a good year for Atlanta. If they'd kept him (remember, they cut him twice to keep less productive players), they wouldn't have needed to go find a backup PG.

good compared to what?

I didn't see anything last night that made me say, dang, we shoulda just kept Shelvin.
OK, maybe he's not horrible, like Maynor. But still.

I liked AJ Price but he's totally fallen off the radar, can't play on a team with
both Rubio and Barea.

He has a PPA of 92, which is a little below average, but more than adequate for a backup PG. He's miles more productive than either Maynor or Temple despite meh defense. He's assisting, but not turning it over (3-1 ast/tov ratio), shooting well (.367 from 3pt range, 80+% from the FT line), getting steals -- even rebounding decently for a PG. He's a solid player.

my enduring memory of Mack was that it seemed to get around that he was
vulnerable to being pressured. Like really vulnerable. If he has devised a
means to adapt to that, OK. He was a heady player but was pretty inconsistent
in his time here, which arguably isn't surprising consider it's tough to come into
the NBA and be a PG. Especially when you're really a converted 2 guard to begin with.
But he usually had a good A:TO but not a consistent shot, ironic since he is more of a
2 guard/tweener.

[nuposse04]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/MGortat/status/436610216160153600[/tweet]

I'll never stop ripping on Gortats lack of defensive effort, but he is fairly comical on twitter, lolol