2021 Draft thread. Woo! 15th pick here we come! Hoo. Ray.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Yeah, Kuminga, Jalen Green, and Jalen Johnson will go top 8 because of the physical tools, and we will see how the perform once those G league games begin, but right now, I think those are the picks we want to avoid.

My cheat sheet would say: if top 3 pick Mobley, Suggs, Cunningham(in that order)

If not top 3: trade down for as many picks in the 4-20 range as you can acquire.

Every time I look at this draft, I think about a potential Golden State trade where we acquire the Minnesota pick and the Golden State pick while tanking. Imagine having the #2 pick, the #4 pick and the #18 pick in this draft! And Wiseman too.

But the Minny pick most likely turns into a 2022 pick right? I mean I agree, that would be a home run, but Minnesota is so terrible, I can’t see them finishing outside the bottom 3, meaning they add a can’t miss prospect and the 2022 pick ends up being a 5-10 pick instead of a top 3.

If I can dream for a minute, imagine turning that #4 into the NY picks at 10&12ish and picking at 3, 10, 12, 18. According to tankathon right now:

3: Jalen Suggs

10: Franz Wagner

12: Jared Butler

18: Sharife Cooper

Woah

I like the way you dream!

NatP4, if a Beal trade could get two of these guys I would be very happy!

[jangles86]

Cunningham will be a very special player. Looks like Luka Doncic lite to me, but with a bit more explosiveness.

[NatP4]

Watching the Baylor game instead of the Wizards game, Jared Butler is outstanding on the defensive end. Great effort, really quick laterally. Has 13 points 5 assists 6 rebounds and 3 steals on 8 shots.

He’s a total leader, doesn’t take any bad shots, doesn’t care if he’s just spotting up and letting everyone else run the offense, has no issue just giving the ball up in pick and rolls when the defense helps. Multiple times in the game, a mistake would happen, was not his fault at all and he would take the blame and give his teamates the “my fault” motion.

[DCsOwn]

https://youtu.be/5CUR1El2664

Interesting overview of the development of the notable G League prospects.

[Ruzious]

Kuminga might be the most physically gifted player of the bunch. My guess is NBA GM's are gonna make him a top 5 pick because of his upside - in the Jaylen Brown mold.

Yeah, Kuminga, Jalen Green, and Jalen Johnson will go top 8 because of the physical tools, and we will see how the perform once those G league games begin, but right now, I think those are the picks we want to avoid.

My cheat sheet would say: if top 3 pick Mobley, Suggs, Cunningham(in that order)

If not top 3: trade down for as many picks in the 4-20 range as you can acquire.

Every time I look at this draft, I think about a potential Golden State trade where we acquire the Minnesota pick and the Golden State pick while tanking. Imagine having the #2 pick, the #4 pick and the #18 pick in this draft! And Wiseman too.

Count me in - along with the trade of 4 and 18ish for 3. Actually, a lot of people are excited about Jalen Green and think he could be a top 3 and Kuminga could make it a top 5 of elites, so it might be easier than we thought to get both Mobley and either Suggs or Cunningham. And then, as I said in the Trade thread, I trade Wiseman for probably a late lotto pick (to be used on Jared Butler) and a future unprotected pick. That would be an exciting rebuild.

[DCsOwn]

Mike Schmitz is doing quality work illuminating the blind spot that has been the G League development route for some of these draft prospects.

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Pretty comprehensive stuff here.

[payitforward]

This is my kind of move! Or "moves" I should say. Let's do it!

[NatP4]

https://youtu.be/5CUR1El2664

Interesting overview of the development of the notable G League prospects.

Interesting. Compares Jalen Green to Zac Lavine, and Jalen Suggs to Jrue Holiday, but has Green ranked at 3 above Suggs.

Give me the Minnesota pick right now if a team is really dumb enough to pick Green or Kuminga in the top 3.

[Dat2U]

Yeah, Kuminga, Jalen Green, and Jalen Johnson will go top 8 because of the physical tools, and we will see how the perform once those G league games begin, but right now, I think those are the picks we want to avoid.

My cheat sheet would say: if top 3 pick Mobley, Suggs, Cunningham(in that order)

If not top 3: trade down for as many picks in the 4-20 range as you can acquire.

Every time I look at this draft, I think about a potential Golden State trade where we acquire the Minnesota pick and the Golden State pick while tanking. Imagine having the #2 pick, the #4 pick and the #18 pick in this draft! And Wiseman too.

Count me in - along with the trade of 4 and 18ish for 3. Actually, a lot of people are excited about Jalen Green and think he could be a top 3 and Kuminga could make it a top 5 of elites, so it might be easier than we thought to get both Mobley and either Suggs or Cunningham. And then, as I said in the Trade thread, I trade Wiseman for probably a late lotto pick (to be used on Jared Butler) and a future unprotected pick. That would be an exciting rebuild.

Hmmm...

What about having GS package Wiseman & the Minny pick to get us in the top 2-3?

So its 2nd, 18th & future picks for Beal? That looks better.

Dream scenario then is to land the #1 and then acquire the 2nd using the Minny pick & Wiseman. That's a cool way to jump start a rebuild. Who to pick b/w Mobley, Suggs & Cunningham!

[Ruzious]

Every time I look at this draft, I think about a potential Golden State trade where we acquire the Minnesota pick and the Golden State pick while tanking. Imagine having the #2 pick, the #4 pick and the #18 pick in this draft! And Wiseman too.

Count me in - along with the trade of 4 and 18ish for 3. Actually, a lot of people are excited about Jalen Green and think he could be a top 3 and Kuminga could make it a top 5 of elites, so it might be easier than we thought to get both Mobley and either Suggs or Cunningham. And then, as I said in the Trade thread, I trade Wiseman for probably a late lotto pick (to be used on Jared Butler) and a future unprotected pick. That would be an exciting rebuild.

Hmmm...

What about having GS package Wiseman & the Minny pick to get us in the top 2-3?

So its 2nd, 18th & future picks for Beal? That looks better.

Dream scenario then is to land the #1 and then acquire the 2nd using the Minny pick & Wiseman. That's a cool way to jump start a rebuild. Who to pick b/w Mobley, Suggs & Cunningham!

Yeah, there are a lot of maneuvering opportunities with GS.

Of the 3 players, we need Mobley. I think Suggs will go before Cunningham, because there's probably going to be concern about Cunningham's assist/to's. I think Suggs has the higher floor, while Cunningham has the higher ceiling. So then, it's about risk tolerance, imo. It might depend on who you have at the 2. If your 2 has point guard skills, then pick Cunningham. If he doesn't, pick Suggs. If you're able to add someone like Jared Butler, pick Cunningham. If you get someone like Moody, pick Suggs.

[NatP4]

Couldn’t agree more with a couple of things:

1. We need Mobley. He’s the guy you cannot pass on

2. Suggs has the highest floor in the draft. You can almost pencil him in to being a really good two way NBA player.

Also, I think I would still pick Jared Butler even if I picked Suggs before him. He’s that good. Almost like an upperclassman version of Suggs.

[NatP4]

I’ve cooled off on Daishen Nix some, while still looking forward to seeing his g league production. I’m not sure he will ever be much of a plus defender, and his slashing ability might be limited due to his lack of explosiveness.

Still think he might be a nice steal for a team in the 15-20 range. The PG class is looking really strong with Suggs, Cunningham, Cooper, Butler, and Nix all probably going 1st round.

[nate33]

Of the 3 players, we need Mobley. I think Suggs will go before Cunningham, because there's probably going to be concern about Cunningham's assist/to's. I think Suggs has the higher floor, while Cunningham has the higher ceiling. So then, it's about risk tolerance, imo. It might depend on who you have at the 2. If your 2 has point guard skills, then pick Cunningham. If he doesn't, pick Suggs. If you're able to add someone like Jared Butler, pick Cunningham. If you get someone like Moody, pick Suggs.

I think Cunningham will go before Suggs because he is the ideal 6-8 wing prototype that most teams need. You can't teach height. We happen to be chock full of forwards so Suggs is more appealing to us, but most other teams would prefer the forward.

I agree with you that, for our purposes, it should be Mobley > Suggs > Cunningham

[Ruzious]

Of the 3 players, we need Mobley. I think Suggs will go before Cunningham, because there's probably going to be concern about Cunningham's assist/to's. I think Suggs has the higher floor, while Cunningham has the higher ceiling. So then, it's about risk tolerance, imo. It might depend on who you have at the 2. If your 2 has point guard skills, then pick Cunningham. If he doesn't, pick Suggs. If you're able to add someone like Jared Butler, pick Cunningham. If you get someone like Moody, pick Suggs.

I think Cunningham will go before Suggs because he is the ideal 6-8 wing prototype that most teams need. You can't teach height. We happen to be chock full of forwards so Suggs is more appealing to us, but most other teams would prefer the forward.

I agree with you that, for our purposes, it should be Mobley > Suggs > Cunningham

I see your point. Cunningham's height is definitely a big advantage - allowing all kinds of defensive switching and offensive mismatches - and he made a game-winning defensive play this season that I think a 6'4 player like Suggs wouldn't have even attempted. I'd be happy with either one. My favorite backcourt combo would be Cunningham and Jared Butler - offensively and defensively. I think both shoot well enough that they can alternate playing off the ball.

[DCsOwn]

Of the 3 players, we need Mobley. I think Suggs will go before Cunningham, because there's probably going to be concern about Cunningham's assist/to's. I think Suggs has the higher floor, while Cunningham has the higher ceiling. So then, it's about risk tolerance, imo. It might depend on who you have at the 2. If your 2 has point guard skills, then pick Cunningham. If he doesn't, pick Suggs. If you're able to add someone like Jared Butler, pick Cunningham. If you get someone like Moody, pick Suggs.

I think Cunningham will go before Suggs because he is the ideal 6-8 wing prototype that most teams need. You can't teach height. We happen to be chock full of forwards so Suggs is more appealing to us, but most other teams would prefer the forward.

I agree with you that, for our purposes, it should be Mobley > Suggs > Cunningham

By the time the draft rolls around, Cunningham is going to be viewed in league circles as the clear cut number 1 prospect in this draft. There will media preening to generate clicks/views on the topic, but there isn't a team in the league that's passing on a 6-8 lead ball handler with scoring potential and defensive upside in this iteration of the NBA. If you could create the perfect draft prospect for the contemporary NBA (outside of the true unicorn prospects that are the Durants/Lebrons of the world), it would look a lot like Cade. That's not to say that Mobley/Suggs/Green/Kuminga et al aren't tremendous prospects, I think they are (the latter two more projections with physical upside that you can dream on), but there won't be a team that drafts a player before Cunningham (which is not to say that a team won't trade back or move the pick, but Cade is going 1:1).

I also think that he should be the Wizards pick at 1 if they're fortunate enough to be drafting in that spot. To me, he appears to be the likeliest player to wind up as a number one option on a championship team, and that's the end of the calculation to me. The Wizards haven't had a true number one in that mold my entire life, to me, that supersedes positional considerations or anything else.

[Ruzious]

Of the 3 players, we need Mobley. I think Suggs will go before Cunningham, because there's probably going to be concern about Cunningham's assist/to's. I think Suggs has the higher floor, while Cunningham has the higher ceiling. So then, it's about risk tolerance, imo. It might depend on who you have at the 2. If your 2 has point guard skills, then pick Cunningham. If he doesn't, pick Suggs. If you're able to add someone like Jared Butler, pick Cunningham. If you get someone like Moody, pick Suggs.

I think Cunningham will go before Suggs because he is the ideal 6-8 wing prototype that most teams need. You can't teach height. We happen to be chock full of forwards so Suggs is more appealing to us, but most other teams would prefer the forward.

I agree with you that, for our purposes, it should be Mobley > Suggs > Cunningham

By the time the draft rolls around, Cunningham is going to be viewed in league circles as the clear cut number 1 prospect in this draft. There will media preening to generate clicks/views on the topic, but there isn't a team in the league that's passing on a 6-8 lead ball handler with scoring potential and defensive upside in this iteration of the NBA. If you could create the perfect draft prospect for the contemporary NBA (outside of the true unicorn prospects that are the Durants/Lebrons of the world), it would look a lot like Cade. That's not to say that Mobley/Suggs/Green/Kuminga et al aren't tremendous prospects, I think they are (the latter two more projections with physical upside that you can dream on), but there won't be a team that drafts a player before Cunningham (which is not to say that a team won't trade back or move the pick, but Cade is going 1:1).

I also think that he should be the Wizards pick at 1 if they're fortunate enough to be drafting in that spot. To me, he appears to be the likeliest player to wind up as a number one option on a championship team, and that's the end of the calculation to me. The Wizards haven't had a true number one in that mold my entire life, to me, that supersedes positional considerations or anything else.

3.7 assists and 3.5 to's per game. Am I wrong for worrying about that?

[nate33]

Of the 3 players, we need Mobley. I think Suggs will go before Cunningham, because there's probably going to be concern about Cunningham's assist/to's. I think Suggs has the higher floor, while Cunningham has the higher ceiling. So then, it's about risk tolerance, imo. It might depend on who you have at the 2. If your 2 has point guard skills, then pick Cunningham. If he doesn't, pick Suggs. If you're able to add someone like Jared Butler, pick Cunningham. If you get someone like Moody, pick Suggs.

I think Cunningham will go before Suggs because he is the ideal 6-8 wing prototype that most teams need. You can't teach height. We happen to be chock full of forwards so Suggs is more appealing to us, but most other teams would prefer the forward.

I agree with you that, for our purposes, it should be Mobley > Suggs > Cunningham

By the time the draft rolls around, Cunningham is going to be viewed in league circles as the clear cut number 1 prospect in this draft. There will media preening to generate clicks/views on the topic, but there isn't a team in the league that's passing on a 6-8 lead ball handler with scoring potential and defensive upside in this iteration of the NBA. If you could create the perfect draft prospect for the contemporary NBA (outside of the true unicorn prospects that are the Durants/Lebrons of the world), it would look a lot like Cade. That's not to say that Mobley/Suggs/Green/Kuminga et al aren't tremendous prospects, I think they are (the latter two more projections with physical upside that you can dream on), but there won't be a team that drafts a player before Cunningham (which is not to say that a team won't trade back or move the pick, but Cade is going 1:1).

I also think that he should be the Wizards pick at 1 if they're fortunate enough to be drafting in that spot. To me, he appears to be the likeliest player to wind up as a number one option on a championship team, and that's the end of the calculation to me. The Wizards haven't had a true number one in that mold my entire life, to me, that supersedes positional considerations or anything else.

Fair points. To be honest, I haven't spent a lot of time breaking down these picks. I know Cunningham, Suggs, and Mobley are a cut above, but that's about it.

In terms of fit, Mobley and Suggs are better because we need a defensive big and better guard play. But you don't worry about fit on a rebuilding team. You take the BPA. If Cunningham is indeed the best prospect, take him and then figure out the rotation later. Presumably, we would want to shop Hachimura or Avdija around for a guard if possible.

[DCsOwn]

I think Cunningham will go before Suggs because he is the ideal 6-8 wing prototype that most teams need. You can't teach height. We happen to be chock full of forwards so Suggs is more appealing to us, but most other teams would prefer the forward.

I agree with you that, for our purposes, it should be Mobley > Suggs > Cunningham

By the time the draft rolls around, Cunningham is going to be viewed in league circles as the clear cut number 1 prospect in this draft. There will media preening to generate clicks/views on the topic, but there isn't a team in the league that's passing on a 6-8 lead ball handler with scoring potential and defensive upside in this iteration of the NBA. If you could create the perfect draft prospect for the contemporary NBA (outside of the true unicorn prospects that are the Durants/Lebrons of the world), it would look a lot like Cade. That's not to say that Mobley/Suggs/Green/Kuminga et al aren't tremendous prospects, I think they are (the latter two more projections with physical upside that you can dream on), but there won't be a team that drafts a player before Cunningham (which is not to say that a team won't trade back or move the pick, but Cade is going 1:1).

I also think that he should be the Wizards pick at 1 if they're fortunate enough to be drafting in that spot. To me, he appears to be the likeliest player to wind up as a number one option on a championship team, and that's the end of the calculation to me. The Wizards haven't had a true number one in that mold my entire life, to me, that supersedes positional considerations or anything else.

3.7 assists and 3.5 to's per game. Am I wrong for worrying about that?

I don't think you are. I would say that's his primary area of concern (along with solid but not elite athleticism). Kinda have to weigh that potential issue against the flaws exhibited by his competition for 1OV though, and to me, I'd be more comfortable banking on Cade improving in that area with (ostensibly) better teammates, a better offensive system, more spacing at the next level and more personal development. He's also reputed to be tremendous from an intangibles perspective so that's important.

[NatP4]

By the time the draft rolls around, Cunningham is going to be viewed in league circles as the clear cut number 1 prospect in this draft. There will media preening to generate clicks/views on the topic, but there isn't a team in the league that's passing on a 6-8 lead ball handler with scoring potential and defensive upside in this iteration of the NBA. If you could create the perfect draft prospect for the contemporary NBA (outside of the true unicorn prospects that are the Durants/Lebrons of the world), it would look a lot like Cade. That's not to say that Mobley/Suggs/Green/Kuminga et al aren't tremendous prospects, I think they are (the latter two more projections with physical upside that you can dream on), but there won't be a team that drafts a player before Cunningham (which is not to say that a team won't trade back or move the pick, but Cade is going 1:1).

I also think that he should be the Wizards pick at 1 if they're fortunate enough to be drafting in that spot. To me, he appears to be the likeliest player to wind up as a number one option on a championship team, and that's the end of the calculation to me. The Wizards haven't had a true number one in that mold my entire life, to me, that supersedes positional considerations or anything else.

3.7 assists and 3.5 to's per game. Am I wrong for worrying about that?

I don't think you are. I would say that's his primary area of concern (along with solid but not elite athleticism). Kinda have to weigh that potential issue against the flaws exhibited by his competition for 1OV though, and to me, I'd be more comfortable banking on Cade improving in that area with (ostensibly) better teammates, a better offensive system, more spacing at the next level and more personal development. He's also reputed to be tremendous from an intangibles perspective so that's important.

Agreed on that. His teamates are awful, the have no spacing or shooting. His passing ability isn’t reflected in those assist totals.

Still, Suggs is the better athlete, more explosive/powerful, better at getting to the rim, better at bending the defense, better vision, significantly better defender and perimeter threat, much smarter, and much more confident on the court. He’s like if you took guys like Jalen Brunson and Fred Van Fleet and gave them better size and athleticism. He could be your star lead guard or your 9th man that plays 12 minutes and he’s going to play his ass off and impact the game positively.

The league perception probably does get Cunningham drafted before Suggs, it also got Anthony Edwards drafted 2nd instead of Haliburton. Suggs is going to be a better NBA player IMO. Cunningham will be good though.

[badinage]

No shopping of Avdija. No. No.

The kid stays in the picture. (Cf., https://m.imdb.com/title/tt0303353/)

If he goes, I’m done, I’m out.

He will retire with us or I will give up a piece of my fandom.