Official Trade Thread -- Part XL

[nate33]

That's my point though. If he's playing like the Bertans of last year, he's a steal and you don't trade that guy.

He signed a market value contract. Even if he regains his form from last season, he isn't a steal. He is worth roughly what he is paid.

If he doesn't regain that form, he is a negative value contract. Right now, average fans are down on Bertans, but actual GM's probably aren't too concerned with his poor start. But he isn't doing himself any favors. If he was fairly valued this offseason, he is currently overpriced, at least by a little.

[gambitx777]

I don't agree with this. We have enough shooting and I really like what rui, deni and matthews is showing me. I think davis is a good shooter and will shoot good again but I think he's a luxury on a team like this with Scott not being able to get guys to play D. We could use a better defender in a trade like a lonzo ball, or a tyler bey that we might be able to get form another team for him. He's a major liability here on D because the team doesn't play D at all.

That's my point though. If he's playing like the Bertans of last year, he's a steal and you don't trade that guy.

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[Dat2U]

I don't agree with this. We have enough shooting and I really like what rui, deni and matthews is showing me. I think davis is a good shooter and will shoot good again but I think he's a luxury on a team like this with Scott not being able to get guys to play D. We could use a better defender in a trade like a lonzo ball, or a tyler bey that we might be able to get form another team for him. He's a major liability here on D because the team doesn't play D at all.

That's my point though. If he's playing like the Bertans of last year, he's a steal and you don't trade that guy.

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You can never have too much shooting and you certainly don't sell when when value is the lowest.

Your not getting an asset for him without including compensation atm which would be foolish to do.

[nate33]

I don't agree with this. We have enough shooting and I really like what rui, deni and matthews is showing me. I think davis is a good shooter and will shoot good again but I think he's a luxury on a team like this with Scott not being able to get guys to play D. We could use a better defender in a trade like a lonzo ball, or a tyler bey that we might be able to get form another team for him. He's a major liability here on D because the team doesn't play D at all.

That's my point though. If he's playing like the Bertans of last year, he's a steal and you don't trade that guy.

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You can never have too much shooting and you certainly don't sell when when value is the lowest.

Your not getting an asset for him without including compensation atm which would be foolish to do.

This.

I'm open to the idea that Bertans, at his salary, is a luxury that we can't afford when we have so many dire needs at other positions. If we traded him for something useful in return at some point down the line, I wouldn't be upset. But we are not going to trade him for anything useful right now because his value is lower now than it was when we signed him. And when we signed him, he had, by definition, a market value contract.

[Dat2U]

Man, I sure hope we don’t miss out on the Ryan Anderson of this draft.

Way to completely miss the point, Nat.

Tell me, who was a better NBA player? Was it

Ryan Anderson?

Or was it one of:

Michael Beasley?
O.J. Mayo?
Joe Alexander?
D.J. Augustin?
Brook Lopez?
Jerryd Bayless?
Jason Thompson?
Brandon Rush?
Anthony Randolph?
Robin Lopez?
Marreese Speights?
Roy Hibbert?
Javale McGee?
J.J. Hickson?
Alexis Ajinca?

That's 15 of the top 20 picks. Most, though not all, were terrible, & none of them as good as the #21 pick, Ryan Anderson. I didn't list Eric Gordon, who was the #7 pick, b/c someone will like him ("he can get his own shot"), but I could have, b/c Anderson was a better player than Gordon.

In fact, of the next 5 guys taken after Anderson -- Courtney Lee, Kosta Koufos, Serge Ibaka, Nic Batum & George Hill -- at least 3 were also better than any of the above list. & the other 2 were better than most of them.

Why do you constantly repeat this brutal exercise? We all get it. Treat the NBA draft like the NFL draft and get as many picks as possible because the risk of drafting a bust is high after a top 3 pick. I think you've made your viewpoint as clear as possible. It would be helpful though to move past the historical markers. No one cares that we could have had George Hill or Ryan Anderson. I'd rather hear insight from you on what we can get in 2021 not 2008.

[Ruzious]

Btw, Brook Lopez has had a better career than Ryan Anderson.

[nate33]

Man, I sure hope we don’t miss out on the Ryan Anderson of this draft.

Way to completely miss the point, Nat.

Tell me, who was a better NBA player? Was it

Ryan Anderson?

Or was it one of:

Michael Beasley?
O.J. Mayo?
Joe Alexander?
D.J. Augustin?
Brook Lopez?
Jerryd Bayless?
Jason Thompson?
Brandon Rush?
Anthony Randolph?
Robin Lopez?
Marreese Speights?
Roy Hibbert?
Javale McGee?
J.J. Hickson?
Alexis Ajinca?

That's 15 of the top 20 picks. Most, though not all, were terrible, & none of them as good as the #21 pick, Ryan Anderson. I didn't list Eric Gordon, who was the #7 pick, b/c someone will like him ("he can get his own shot"), but I could have, b/c Anderson was a better player than Gordon.

In fact, of the next 5 guys taken after Anderson -- Courtney Lee, Kosta Koufos, Serge Ibaka, Nic Batum & George Hill -- at least 3 were also better than any of the above list. & the other 2 were better than most of them.

Why do you constantly repeat this brutal exercise? We all get it. Treat the NBA draft like the NFL draft and get as many picks as possible because the risk of drafting a bust is high after a top 3 pick. I think you've made your viewpoint as clear as possible. It would be helpful though to move past the historical markers. No one cares that we could have had George Hill or Ryan Anderson. I'd rather hear insight from you on what we can get in 2021 not 2008.

I also think PIF discounts the complications of trying to develop multiple young players at the same time. You can't trade down from 1 high pick to 5 guys in the 25-30 range and then expect to be able to develop all 5 guys at the same time. Particularly if you did the same thing the year before. Rosters are only so big. There are only so many minutes available at each position. And sometimes you want a couple of veterans to lead by example and to take some of the pressure off.

[NatP4]

There are some common sense moves I would make going forward assuming we do keep Beal and go all in on Masai. Bertans will eventually play up his trade value, then we move him to Boston or some other team for a late 1st. We move Ish for a 2nd round pick, and we take back a multi year bad contract in exchange for Lopez and his expiring deal for a 2nd round pick.

We package both 2nds+late 1st to move up to the 15-20 range to take someone like Jared Butler or Franz Wagner. Butler would give us a NBA ready PG, Wagner gives us a NBA ready PF.

[nate33]

There are some common sense moves I would make going forward assuming we do keep Beal and go all in on Masai. Bertans will eventually play up his trade value, then we move him to Boston or some other team for a late 1st. We move Ish for a 2nd round pick, and we take back a multi year bad contract in exchange for Lopez and his expiring deal for a 2nd round pick.

We package both 2nds+late 1st to move up to the 15-20 range to take someone like Jared Butler or Franz Wagner. Butler would give us a NBA ready PG, Wagner gives us a NBA ready PF.

I'm on board with trading Bertans for a late 1st if possible.

I don't think anyone is giving us a 2nd to rent Ish Smith for a half season. Rentals are worth something if they're playoff role players, but Ish is not.

And I don't think there are any teams in such dire need of shedding 2021-22 money that they will pay for us to take on a small contract.

[WallToWall]

The Wizards have 3 trade exceptions to use, according to tradenba.com. Two of them, a $1.6m from the McRae trade to Denver, and another $1.6m from the Thomas trade to the Clippers, are set to expire on Feb 8. There is a third exception of $1m, from the trade of Shofield to OKC, set to expire Nov 19.

[nate33]

The Wizards have 3 trade exceptions to use, according to tradenba.com. Two of them, a $1.6m from the McRae trade to Denver, and another $1.6m from the Thomas trade to the Clippers, are set to expire on Feb 8. There is a third exception of $1m, from the trade of Shofield to OKC, set to expire Nov 19.

We only have $800K in luxtax breathing room.

We won't be signing anybody except 10-day contracts. It's probably why we cut Jordan Bell.

[gambitx777]

We could free up room I. Another trade but it's not like those exceptions are worth much

The Wizards have 3 trade exceptions to use, according to tradenba.com. Two of them, a $1.6m from the McRae trade to Denver, and another $1.6m from the Thomas trade to the Clippers, are set to expire on Feb 8. There is a third exception of $1m, from the trade of Shofield to OKC, set to expire Nov 19.

We only have $800K in luxtax breathing room.

We won't be signing anybody except 10-day contracts. It's probably why we cut Jordan Bell.

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[gambitx777]

I was reading an article that the mavs might have interest in westbrook. But I don't know if that makes sense with luka being a westbrook like player.

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[Ruzious]

Say we get lucky and get Mobley in the draft. Would it then be crazy if we trade Beal in a 3 way involving Minnesota with Towns coming here? Then trade Bryant and or Bertans for a guard. We'd still have Rui and Avdija - that's a talented front court. And still have TBJ, Westbrook, Mathews and the guard we traded for. Gotta figure out who the guard is. Ha - Norman Powell would be convenient.

[nate33]

Say we get lucky and get Mobley in the draft. Would it then be crazy if we trade Beal in a 3 way involving Minnesota with Towns coming here? Then trade Bryant and or Bertans for a guard. We'd still have Rui and Avdija - that's a talented front court. And still have TBJ, Westbrook, Mathews and the guard we traded for. Gotta figure out who the guard is. Ha - Norman Powell would be convenient.

The way I look at it, you have two elite players, you want one to be a big and the other to be a ball-handling guard/wing. If we landed Mobley, I wouldn't trade our elite guard/wing for another big. I'd just keep Beal. If we were worried about Beal being 8 years older than Mobley, then I would look to trade Beal for a younger guard/wing - maybe MPJ and stuff, or maybe for a draft pick high enough to land Suggs or Cunningham.

But whatever the case, I don't see why landing Mobley would prompt you to try and trade for Towns.

[gambitx777]

Would there be any world where we could try to grab Zach lavigne to put next to beal.

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[payitforward]

I don't agree with this. We have enough shooting and I really like what rui, deni and matthews is showing me. I think davis is a good shooter and will shoot good again but I think he's a luxury on a team like this with Scott not being able to get guys to play D. We could use a better defender in a trade like a lonzo ball, or a tyler bey that we might be able to get form another team for him. He's a major liability here on D because the team doesn't play D at all.

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You can never have too much shooting and you certainly don't sell when when value is the lowest.

Your not getting an asset for him without including compensation atm which would be foolish to do.

This.

I'm open to the idea that Bertans, at his salary, is a luxury that we can't afford when we have so many dire needs at other positions. If we traded him for something useful in return at some point down the line, I wouldn't be upset. But we are not going to trade him for anything useful right now because his value is lower now than it was when we signed him. And when we signed him, he had, by definition, a market value contract.

Agreed -- but a little nitpick on your last point: we do know that his contract is not below market value. That's true by definition, since in a free market nothing is sold at below market value.

We don't know, however, that his contract isn't above market value -- given that no one else competed to sign him. In fact, that's a pretty good indication that it is above market value.

[nate33]

You can never have too much shooting and you certainly don't sell when when value is the lowest.

Your not getting an asset for him without including compensation atm which would be foolish to do.

This.

I'm open to the idea that Bertans, at his salary, is a luxury that we can't afford when we have so many dire needs at other positions. If we traded him for something useful in return at some point down the line, I wouldn't be upset. But we are not going to trade him for anything useful right now because his value is lower now than it was when we signed him. And when we signed him, he had, by definition, a market value contract.

Agreed -- but a little nitpick on your last point: we do know that his contract is not below market value. That's true by definition, since in a free market nothing is sold at below market value.

We don't know, however, that his contract isn't above market value -- given that no one else competed to sign him. In fact, that's a pretty good indication that it is above market value.

Does anybody really "compete" to sign anyone? It's not like it's a cattle auction.

I think it's a pretty good bet that Shepard and Bertans' agent had a pretty good idea what a fair market price was.

[DCZards]

This.

I'm open to the idea that Bertans, at his salary, is a luxury that we can't afford when we have so many dire needs at other positions. If we traded him for something useful in return at some point down the line, I wouldn't be upset. But we are not going to trade him for anything useful right now because his value is lower now than it was when we signed him. And when we signed him, he had, by definition, a market value contract.

Agreed -- but a little nitpick on your last point: we do know that his contract is not below market value. That's true by definition, since in a free market nothing is sold at below market value.

We don't know, however, that his contract isn't above market value -- given that no one else competed to sign him. In fact, that's a pretty good indication that it is above market value.

Does anybody really "compete" to sign anyone? It's not like it's a cattle auction.

I think it's a pretty good bet that Shepard and Bertans' agent had a pretty good idea what a fair market price was.

They probably also knew what other teams were interested in signing Davis if the Wizards did lowball him.

[WallToWall]

Looking high and low for a center capable of rebounding on both ends. How's this Kings, Wizards trade proposal?
Richaun Holmes + Jabari Parker + Justin James FOR Ish Smith + Jerome Robinson + Wagner?
Cap hit for us is $1.1M. Justin James salary gets absorbed by our trade exception. Parker has done nothing this year for the Kings. Holms role in the Kings offense seems to be declining.