Official Countdown to Firing"NoLowPostOffense"Grunfeld

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

WD, I've been called nuts.

I've had times where I was verbose and of the opinion I couldn't understand why everyone else couldn't understand ... me ... because I KNEW I was right.

JRo used to complain that my writing was choppy and parsed out and it made my posts difficult for him to understand.

That was back when a lot of things were on my mind.

WizarDynasty, the great thing about being in any community is others let you know what they're thinking either through verbals or nonverbals or via them ostracizing or otherwise avoiding you. The trick is to understand a way to communicate so that your point of view adds to that community. Be sociable and then be heard, which means you have to listen and respect others' views.

My perspective WD is you know a great deal more about hoops but it seems very difficult for you to keep it brief, and to break everything down into paragraphs (1 complete thought expressed in somewhere between 3-7 sentences) AND to try not to say the same thing over again.

WD, I want everybody to be heard and respected here. A lot of the folks flaming your posts simply can't deal with repetitive info in one big paragraph. They may vociferously disagree with you regarding size/shape/performance at certain positions, but I don't think that's where the friction comes from. It's in HOW you're saying what you say. If you don't care, never mind. I say keep posting, regardless if you adjust your style .. but do be aware you could have a much bigger impact if you learn to say what you have to say in a more concise manner. (Or, if you're like me make necessary adjustments to find clarity and hope -- then the rest works it self out.)

Personally, WizarDynasty, I just hope you're okay and that you make your point in a way that benefits you and me and others in this Wizards board community.

Thanks, WD.

[WizarDynasty]

I've got to agree with closg00 on this one. I know I might me in the minority but Ive been feeling this way for a while. I think some people are a bit delusional about the talent on this team. Yes we have 3 legit 7 footers if you count Haywood, but please tell me how many of these guys have an ounce of toughness. They are all soft and shy away from contact. In my opinion a big part of "inside presence has to do with toughness and not just height, if that where the case Shawn Bradley would have been a great inside presence. I like Haywod to a degree but lets face it, up until last year he was very inconsisent, he'd have spurts where he'd have 3 or 4 reb in an entire game and I believe he was on the court in the playoffs when Cleveland routinely drove into the lane with no consequence, Im just saying, lets not treat this guy like he's Dwight Howard. He is an above average center who is a pretty good off. rebounder but not a great def. rebounder, but I wouldn't really give him the tag as great inside presence.

Andray Blatche has been more consistent this year but with that said he is still pretty inconsistent. He also is a guy who shy's away from contact at times and doesn't fight for the ball. In a 7 game series, he would get detroyed by either KG or Kendrick Perkins. He's like Pau Gasol without the offense. However I will agree that he is a pretty good passer, but if I had my choice on whether to have a strong inside presence or a good passer Id take the strong inside presnece.

Javal McGee obviously is still a work in progress so I wont say anything about him, but i do like his energy and his willingness to go after the ball, the only problem is that when you're that light its easy to get out muscled for position but thats something that will come with building muscle.

Lastly Nick Young. He looked great over the past few games, but I think a lot of that had to do with the fact that he was just hot and we really didn't play anything great defenses, also I think Nick Young at some point in his career could start but not now, the reason being is when his shots off he really brings nothing else. Look at the box score for the previous 4-5 games, he doesn;t rebound and he has almost no assists. Again, I think he eventually will be able to be a starter, but not here, not next to Arenas, unless he can develop a catch and shoot game, because we all no that Gil has a tendency to dominate the ball, and Nick Young is at his best when he does the same, to think that that will work and add in Butler for long stretches of time is ridiculous. What this basically comes down to is parts. The parts on this team are not built for a superstar who tends to dominate the ball like Gil. Look at Kobe and Lebron. They are surrounded buy multiple guys who can catch the ball and shoot from the perimter extremely well, whether it be on the move or stationary, allowing your star to penetrate and kick. Delonte West, Derek Fisher, Mo Williams, Daniel Gibson, Sasha Vujacic, Vlad Radmanovic, Lamar Odom(at times), Wally Szczerbiak and Pavlovic. Thats just two teams, name me one players on the Wizards who is built like this. Those teams are built around their star player, and allows that star player to control the ball for long stretches of time and still not kill the flow of the offense. Thats EG.

Also EG is the lack of toughness at the 4-5 positions. Like I said above. We've got a lot of height on the team especially when Haywood gets back but we have no toughness and strength. I'd rather have a 69-6'10 guy who can take and deliver hits and fight for position under the basket than a collection of finesse 7-footers, at least give me one.

I agree that this team is built for a player that dominates the ball. The truth of the matter is that Gil really is a 2 guard on both sides of the court and loves to shoot. I think the tough guy statement was pretty accurate however, a combination of haywood and Blatche in the middle is pretty devastating although Haywood is starting to age. I think the real issue for us is that we don't have big men that can get to foul line in clutch situations in the 4th. We rely to heavily on Gil driving to lane and hoping the refs make the call when gil is fouled. The problem with this team is that when you have a big that can score in the post, he has higher chance of making the shot in clutch situation even if he is fouled. We don't have bigs that can power through fouls consistently and hit high percentage shots during clutch. Obviously its very difficult to find these type of players but in hostile territory during the 4th quarter in a seven game series...its the only person you can consistently count on to get you points at the right time.
Having a big who can get you point in side is the only weapon you have against 4th quarter refs and Jamison and Gil have proved to be ineffective when the calls aren't going their way in away games in the playoffs.

[barelyawake]

I've said for years that the "group think" of this board is ridiculous. Anyone who comes in with a different and needed perspective is chided beyond belief. In fact, WizD is right about a great deal. We do need to become better defensively. We do have to look at athleticism. We do have to view our players as pieces. Caron isn't the be all end all (though WizD misses the most important element of Caron -- tough leadership). SF is the easiest position to fill, and at SF he doesn't even meet what we need out of a SF (sweeping defense who can cover from 2 to 4).

That said, very few here actually look at the mental make-up of a team (Wiz D included). It's great to fill what is needed in terms of passing, defense, size, etc... It's much harder to build a winning mentality. You do so by picking a year to break out and planning for that year. We've been killed by injuries. Our planning has been killed by injuries. Planning means you assume X will develop (Jarvis Hayes for instance) so you can trade him. When x gets injured, that plan goes down the drain. And most here want to grab a bunch of young players to develop. Hey, that's great. Clippers and Bulls have done that for years. We've even tried it. And what happens? You develop two and the rest jump to other teams. You need to plan a continual mix of vets and youth, and only develop a few young players at a time. All the while planning for the year you want to "breakout" and win a championship.

I think EG has done an amazing job up until this point. He's dealt with players not reaching potential and a great deal of injuries. His mistakes began with not grabbing Marco or Rudy. Up until then, he was doing great filling what we needed. NOW is when he earns his money. We have youth, a top pick, expiring contracts, and three former All stars. There is no doubt that can build a championship team -- it did for the Celtics. This "team" has been viewed as a team until now, and rightfully so from a GM/team mentality perspective. Now, it must be viewed as pieces. All of whom are on the trading block to bring in new, tougher leadership who will develop our youth and vault us over the hump. We need a foundation -- a JO, a Marion, a whoever... as well as Arenas and a developing core. It's not all stats. It's not all athleticism. It's a mental goal as well.

I've said for years that West doesn't just become West while so many don't by accident. It's not just talent. It's the fact that West had PJ Brown on the team to show him how to not have to reinvent the wheel for three years. Do players breakout without vet help? Of course. Or do players not develop with vet help? Of course again. But, when you have vet help you dramatically increase the potential of your young picks. That's why you need to get a vet here (we've needed one forever). You get a vet whose contract expires in a couple years (Hi, JO), who can hand the game to a Griffin, and make sure he gets to the weight room and avoids the pitfalls. Then, all that athleticism that WizD talks about turns into a champion.

Though again, I'm with WizD in terms of finding players who play the right position -- who are athletically and size-wise fit to play that position. And if we look to the draft of next year, for instance, the best players (as the draft stands today) are SFs late in the first round. Trading down the pick, if we don't get the top couple, is the absolute way to go in terms of athleticism and potential. Where I break with WizD, and side-up with Dat, is that Blatche does not appear to have the balls to be a star PF. And that is what we need... period. The goal this season needs to be to ground this team in a star big... period. If that is a draft pick, then you stabilize him with a vet/leader and build our future.

[LyricalRico]

I don't mind Jamison at the 4 as long as Etan and Songaila are off the team. Surrounding AJ with nothing but 7-footers is the only way to compensate for his deficiencies.

But I do agree that we need more catch and shoot guys on the wings. That's why I don't see Nick Young with this team longterm. N1+Etan+Songaila for Rip Hamilton?

[Ced67]

I don't mind Jamison at the 4 as long as Etan and Songaila are off the team. Surrounding AJ with nothing but 7-footers is the only way to compensate for his deficiencies.

But I do agree that we need more catch and shoot guys on the wings. That's why I don't see Nick Young with this team longterm. N1+Etan+Songaila for Rip Hamilton?

Rico, I agree with you pretty much on everything except that I don't think surrounding AJ with 7 footers is the only way to go. I wrote in a previous post that all 3 of our 7footers are pretty soft, it replaces the length lost with Jamison but I think that a problem that is also faced with having an undersized 4 is toughness. I would gladly take a Paul Milsap, Leon Powe or Jason Maxiel to add into the mix, even though they don't have great length, because they are tough and can keep their position under the rim, where guys like McGee and Blatche get pushed around.

As for the catch and shoot guys I agree 100%, but the only problem with bringing in a Rip Hmailton is, who's going to set him up? Gil is pretty much a 2 guard playing point like Iverson, so I think Rip will be lost here too just like he is with playing with Iverson. Billups was the really the perfect compliment to Rip Hamilton.

What it really comes down to is the fact that this team is built around not 1, but 2 odd pieces which make it almost impossible to buid around. A 6'3 SG who plays point because of his height, and a 6'9 230 SF, who plays PF because of his lack of athleticism. That's the double shot right there. I agree that Gil's type of skill set is best complimented by perimeter shooters, but the only problem is that the easiest place to find 3 point shooters who can still defend and handle the ball is at the PG position,. ie. Fisher, Gibson, Delonte West, Vujacic, Chalmers, Chris Quinn, Mo Williams...With us however the PG position is occupied with Arenas, so we now need to find perimeter players who can shoot the 3 and handle the ball as well as PG's which is like finding a unicorn. Kobe, Lebron and Wade are all wing players and can just collect shooting PG'S whoc are use to handleing the ball but we cant because Arenas to too short, sho building a team is difficult. And instead of getting those PG'S we are forced to play defensive wings who won't shoot the ball a lot to keep the offense moving, acting almost as PG'S., Jeffries, Stevenson, Hayes, Daniels...Thats not working.

The same can be said for Jamison at the 4. We need to make up for his lack of size by either getting pure defensive bigs and tall bigs to make up for his lack of size, ie. Haywwod, Blatche, McGee...If Jamison was 6'10-6'11, a little stronger and could bang a little bit it would open up a different type of player that is not open right now for us to compliment him with, or if he was more athletic and could play the 3, we could start a Pauk Milsap or David Lee type at the 4 and still have Haywood at the 5.

My bottom line is that it's extremely difficult to build a team around not 1 but two tweeners, with huge deficiencies, because you essentially not only need to get players who compliment those players you also need those players make up for the deficiencies of those players, mainly on the defensive end, which then means that they arent great offensively.

Teams with scoring wings(Lebron, Wade, Kobe) have shooting PG'S who shoot, defend and handle. Delonte West, Mo Williams, Farmar, Vujacic, Chalmers, Quinn, Dequan Cook...We've had Stevenson, Jeffries, Daniels, Hayes. Secondly the fact that Jamison occupies the 4 position means that we have one less big on the court and we need to over compensate at the 5 with length where other teams might have a Milsap , Powe, Turiaf, Lee somewhere on their roster who will play big minutes off of the bench.

Sorry for rambling, I know thats a lot to read

[Ced67]

This is the last thing, I promise,

The perfect compliment to Gil at the SF, would be Tayshon Prince, Lamar Odom or Turkoglue, someone who can play the SF position, not have to dominate the ball effective offensively and be able to play PG as a Point Forward for long stretches of time and shoot from the perimeter, this is what Tayshon is doing now that Iverson is in Detroit. The perfect compliment to Gil at the SG would probably be Brandon Roy and Joe Johnson(when he was in Phoenix and was a role player). Someone who can essentially play PG offensively, knock down perimeter shots from kick outs and be able to guard 2's on defense. The pool of players is microscopic compared to what you can surround a scoring wing with like Kobe or Lebron with. There are a bunch of 6'0-6'3 3 point shooting PG'S who are good athletes coming out of college every year, however there aren't many Brandon Roy's or Joe Johnson's.

Same can be said for Jamison. His perfect compliment at the 5 would be either Tim Duncan or Dwight Howard. Someone who can control the paint single handedly and allow Jamison to float to the perimeter. Not many of these guys exist, so its difficult to build a team without huge flaws whether it be offensively, defensively or both.

[nate33]

Ced67, I agree with your points, particular with regards to Jamison. Jamison is very difficult to build around. We aren't going to win a championship until we can acquire or groom a starting PF good enough to push Jamison to 6th man.

I'm cautiously optimistic about Gilbert Arenas though. He showcased some impressive passing skills in his brief stint last season (and improved defense as well) and I'm sure he's has continued to improve on the mental aspects of the game while from watching on the sidelines. I think when Arenas comes back, he'll be more of a true PG. He'll never have the vision of Chris Paul or Steve Nash, but I can definitely see him playing like Chauncey Billups, only with more penetration skills.

[closg00]

Bump for accountability, Ernie must be held responsible for Tap wrecking the team and not developing the youth.

[Mr. Grundle]

I'm starting to question EG's team-building skills, and wondering if we will ever go anywhere with him making the decisions. It just seems like offensive ability or potential is all he looks at when deciding whether to acquire a player. Defensive ability isn't even considered. Arenas, Jamison, Songaila, Dixon, and even the recent trade for Mike James. All are pretty much known as all-offense-no-defense guys. And in the draft, its all about players with offensive potential. Redd, Pecherov, Blatche, NY, McGee. I mean I guess McGee has defensive potential but he's obviously years away. McGuire is the only type of defensive potential player he seems to have ever taken a flier on.

He's gotta start by bringing in a coach who is known for defense. Then he's gotta start thinking both offense and defense when it comes to acquiring players, but probably moreso defense. The one thing every NBA championship team does well is play defense. Every single one. You can't play bad defense and go all the way.

Steve Kerr seems to have figured this out. He realized that the Suns would never go all the way by runnin n gunnin. So he dropped the offensive coach, and now he's in the process of trying to reshape the team into a more defensive-oriented unit. First order of business for him is trading the offensively gifted yet defensively challenged PF.

Kerr gets a lot of flack sometimes, but he's doing the right thing, if unpopular. He's got balls. The team won't be as sexy to watch, but they'll be better in the long run. EG should follow suit.

[Benjammin]

If the Wizards trade their top five pick to dump contracts to stay under the luxury tax, it is a complete and total indictment of EG's tenure here in signing players (Daniels, Songaila, second Stevenson contract, recent Jamison deal, etc.). I will be totally and completely disgusted if the Wizards give away their pick and don't get value in return. Moreover, if they get a retread like Sam Mitchell or a totally unproven guy like Wes Jr. I will likely need to take a hiatus from this team which is saying a lot since I've faithfully followed them for over thirty years and have seen a lot of bad basketball over the last twenty seven years...

[closg00]

There simply is no excuse for this mess, look at what Miami is doing with just D-Wade and no center.

[nate33]

If the Wizards trade their top five pick to dump contracts to stay under the luxury tax, it is a complete and total indictment of EG's tenure here in signing players (Daniels, Songaila, second Stevenson contract, recent Jamison deal, etc.). I will be totally and completely disgusted if the Wizards give away their pick and don't get value in return. Moreover, if they get a retread like Sam Mitchell or a totally unproven guy like Wes Jr. I will likely need to take a hiatus from this team which is saying a lot since I've faithfully followed them for over thirty years and have seen a lot of bad basketball over the last twenty seven years...

There's no way that happens. It would be sheer madness to go through the pain of tanking like this only to trade away our draft pick. They'd surely trade Jamison for RLEC or Wally before they gave away the draft pick.

[Ruzious]

If the Wizards trade their top five pick to dump contracts to stay under the luxury tax, it is a complete and total indictment of EG's tenure here in signing players (Daniels, Songaila, second Stevenson contract, recent Jamison deal, etc.). I will be totally and completely disgusted if the Wizards give away their pick and don't get value in return. Moreover, if they get a retread like Sam Mitchell or a totally unproven guy like Wes Jr. I will likely need to take a hiatus from this team which is saying a lot since I've faithfully followed them for over thirty years and have seen a lot of bad basketball over the last twenty seven years...

There's no way that happens. It would be sheer madness to go through the pain of tanking like this only to trade away our draft pick. They'd surely trade Jamison for RLEC or Wally before they gave away the draft pick.

We can't just assume the Wiz can dump his contract and get back an expiring. Until EG or someone from the Wiz front office says Benjamin's concern won't happen, it's something that could happen. If it does... it'll be time for ownership and the entire front office to leave town. Do I think that'll happen? No. As was said, they had to realize the situation they set up when they signed Arenas and Jamison. And they have to realize there will be a major revolt if they dump a top pick. Heck, I'll be royally pissed if they dump the 2nd round pick again. But there is the possibility. I'd love to hear EG refute it. And if he stays mum, I'll be worried.

[MJG]

High draft picks are usually the best bargains in the league, thanks to the rookie salary scale. If the team dumps the draft pick - that is, include it in any trade where the primary goal is to save a bit of money in the short-term - just one year after giving mega contracts to Arenas and Jamison, then I think they'll have lost me as a fan. I'm with nate in that if the bottom line is so important, then Jamison had better be the one going out the door.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I'm starting to question EG's team-building skills, and wondering if we will ever go anywhere with him making the decisions. It just seems like offensive ability or potential is all he looks at when deciding whether to acquire a player. Defensive ability isn't even considered. Arenas, Jamison, Songaila, Dixon, and even the recent trade for Mike James. All are pretty much known as all-offense-no-defense guys. And in the draft, its all about players with offensive potential. Redd, Pecherov, Blatche, NY, McGee. I mean I guess McGee has defensive potential but he's obviously years away. McGuire is the only type of defensive potential player he seems to have ever taken a flier on.

He's gotta start by bringing in a coach who is known for defense. Then he's gotta start thinking both offense and defense when it comes to acquiring players, but probably moreso defense. The one thing every NBA championship team does well is play defense. Every single one. You can't play bad defense and go all the way.

Steve Kerr seems to have figured this out. He realized that the Suns would never go all the way by runnin n gunnin. So he dropped the offensive coach, and now he's in the process of trying to reshape the team into a more defensive-oriented unit. First order of business for him is trading the offensively gifted yet defensively challenged PF.

Kerr gets a lot of flack sometimes, but he's doing the right thing, if unpopular. He's got balls. The team won't be as sexy to watch, but they'll be better in the long run. EG should follow suit.

If Grunfeld's lucky enough to get Griffin in this draft, I think he'll out last Kerr, who's built his team around 36-yr old Shaq.

I agree with you about EG needing to draft defensive talent and to get a defensive coach. I bet he makes Thibodeau an offer at the end of the season.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

If the Wizards trade their top five pick to dump contracts to stay under the luxury tax, it is a complete and total indictment of EG's tenure here in signing players (Daniels, Songaila, second Stevenson contract, recent Jamison deal, etc.). I will be totally and completely disgusted if the Wizards give away their pick and don't get value in return. Moreover, if they get a retread like Sam Mitchell or a totally unproven guy like Wes Jr. I will likely need to take a hiatus from this team which is saying a lot since I've faithfully followed them for over thirty years and have seen a lot of bad basketball over the last twenty seven years...

Me, too. Thirty-six year fan willl say to heck with the losers.

[closg00]

If the Wizards trade their top five pick to dump contracts to stay under the luxury tax, it is a complete and total indictment of EG's tenure here in signing players (Daniels, Songaila, second Stevenson contract, recent Jamison deal, etc.). I will be totally and completely disgusted if the Wizards give away their pick and don't get value in return. Moreover, if they get a retread like Sam Mitchell or a totally unproven guy like Wes Jr. I will likely need to take a hiatus from this team which is saying a lot since I've faithfully followed them for over thirty years and have seen a lot of bad basketball over the last twenty seven years...

Me, too. Thirty-six year fan willl say to heck with the losers.

I'm with you guys. I'm on a hair-trigger alert for:

1. Dumping a high first-round pick to save money
2. The hiring within of Wes Unseld Jr or like-coach for 1 year (as to even things out financially for stupidly re-upping EJ.)

[Mr. Grundle]

If Grunfeld's lucky enough to get Griffin in this draft, I think he'll out last Kerr, who's built his team around 36-yr old Shaq.

I don't think Kerr necessarily built his team around Shaq. He made the trade for him to make one last push for a championship with a defensively dominant center, because he knew the run n gun wasn't gonna cut it in the playoffs. Ballsy move to make considering how highly regarded the Suns were at the time.

Now that it appears that Shaq isn't the missing piece, word is that everyone on that team outside of Nash is on the table. If true, I like what Kerr is doing. He's got the cajones to admit that his team isn't good enough to win a championship, so he's doing the smart thing and blowing it up and starting again as soon as possible. Incredibly ballsy move considering the Suns are an above-average team, possibly still a playoff team.

This guy realizes the ultimate goal is to win a championship, not just be competitive. He's not living in fantasy-land, holding on to the hope that his team, which was once in first place in their conference for like a two-week span 3 years ago, still has a shot at a championship when and IF they ever get back to 100% healthy.

I think you're right that Grunfield will outlast Kerr if he lands Griffin. But like you said, it will only be because of luck. Griffin is the only guy that can possibly save him unless he pulls a rabbit out of his ass.

[hands11]

I don't mind Jamison at the 4 as long as Etan and Songaila are off the team. Surrounding AJ with nothing but 7-footers is the only way to compensate for his deficiencies.

But I do agree that we need more catch and shoot guys on the wings. That's why I don't see Nick Young with this team longterm. N1+Etan+Songaila for Rip Hamilton?

Rico, I agree with you pretty much on everything except that I don't think surrounding AJ with 7 footers is the only way to go. I wrote in a previous post that all 3 of our 7footers are pretty soft, it replaces the length lost with Jamison but I think that a problem that is also faced with having an undersized 4 is toughness. I would gladly take a Paul Milsap, Leon Powe or Jason Maxiel to add into the mix, even though they don't have great length, because they are tough and can keep their position under the rim, where guys like McGee and Blatche get pushed around.

As for the catch and shoot guys I agree 100%, but the only problem with bringing in a Rip Hmailton is, who's going to set him up? Gil is pretty much a 2 guard playing point like Iverson, so I think Rip will be lost here too just like he is with playing with Iverson. Billups was the really the perfect compliment to Rip Hamilton.

What it really comes down to is the fact that this team is built around not 1, but 2 odd pieces which make it almost impossible to buid around. A 6'3 SG who plays point because of his height, and a 6'9 230 SF, who plays PF because of his lack of athleticism. That's the double shot right there. I agree that Gil's type of skill set is best complimented by perimeter shooters, but the only problem is that the easiest place to find 3 point shooters who can still defend and handle the ball is at the PG position,. ie. Fisher, Gibson, Delonte West, Vujacic, Chalmers, Chris Quinn, Mo Williams...With us however the PG position is occupied with Arenas, so we now need to find perimeter players who can shoot the 3 and handle the ball as well as PG's which is like finding a unicorn. Kobe, Lebron and Wade are all wing players and can just collect shooting PG'S whoc are use to handleing the ball but we cant because Arenas to too short, sho building a team is difficult. And instead of getting those PG'S we are forced to play defensive wings who won't shoot the ball a lot to keep the offense moving, acting almost as PG'S., Jeffries, Stevenson, Hayes, Daniels...Thats not working.

The same can be said for Jamison at the 4. We need to make up for his lack of size by either getting pure defensive bigs and tall bigs to make up for his lack of size, ie. Haywwod, Blatche, McGee...If Jamison was 6'10-6'11, a little stronger and could bang a little bit it would open up a different type of player that is not open right now for us to compliment him with, or if he was more athletic and could play the 3, we could start a Pauk Milsap or David Lee type at the 4 and still have Haywood at the 5.

My bottom line is that it's extremely difficult to build a team around not 1 but two tweeners, with huge deficiencies, because you essentially not only need to get players who compliment those players you also need those players make up for the deficiencies of those players, mainly on the defensive end, which then means that they arent great offensively.

Teams with scoring wings(Lebron, Wade, Kobe) have shooting PG'S who shoot, defend and handle. Delonte West, Mo Williams, Farmar, Vujacic, Chalmers, Quinn, Dequan Cook...We've had Stevenson, Jeffries, Daniels, Hayes. Secondly the fact that Jamison occupies the 4 position means that we have one less big on the court and we need to over compensate at the 5 with length where other teams might have a Milsap , Powe, Turiaf, Lee somewhere on their roster who will play big minutes off of the bench.

Sorry for rambling, I know thats a lot to read

Nice to have your voice added. This is what I have been saying for years and what lead me to saying given what they are today, CB is the one of them who is the best for this team given his toughness, contract, and talent for fulling the stat sheet. Haywood at center and a weak side defending PF along with CB would work. The fact that CB plays SF and SG is fine. We can talk about a better PF, but given we have Blatche, his established talents, contract plus upside, that would be a great place to start. CB and Blatche are both team players who will pass. Haywood is the defending beef at center.

Haywood, Blatche, CB is a pretty good line up and decent enough place to start.

GA has been a problem for years because he is so talented but with him playing PG, you can't live with him and you can't live without him. Seems we agree that he is AI like. Again, show me the championship team with a top 5 league scoring PG. There aren't any. And if he was a problem in the past, it just worse now with his new contract. This has been a huge problem in developing the rest of the team - post play and younger talent. But at least you have some options/opprotunities here.

You can still have hopes for GA. With so much talent you have to try to find a way to make it work. It will require him maturing at PG or moving to SG or some combination but it can work. GA is either going to have to figure this out or we need a coach that can get him to figure it out.

AJ - This is the one of the 3 that is the harder to make work given what we need and his salary. We could have moved him in the past with his huge expiring 16M contract but we didn't. It was never an easy thing to do because he is a great dude. Not sure how much of this was EG or how much was Abe but AJ getting resigned for that cash is the biggest problem given the rest of this team.

Talent - Maturity - and how if all fits together while balancing contracts.

The good news is.

Center
A starting quality center in a good contract is probably the hardest thing to find. We have that.

Stud Scorer
Next would be a prime time scorer. We have that also ( even if he is out of position ). Most really good teams have this player as a SG, SF, or PF. I don't mind a PG scoring but someone on the team has to play the role of making other players around them better by passing them the ball in position to do it. That usually is a PG but it can also be your star player at SF or SG. GA has to either become this player or just be a scoring SG.

Glue Guy
Then you need a vet glue guy with toughness who can fill the stat sheet. We have that also. It helps a ton if you have a PG taking on part of this role is coming from your PG.

So yeah. It has a lot to do with the pieces fitting in each spot, personalities/maturity of the individuals, and how it all works together. The good news is that we do have some important pieces to build from. Sadly, two of them have been out for the year and we need to make the transition from AJ and his contract so we can move forward.

That is step 1 and step 2. Since we can't control them healing, we need to address what we can and that is trading AJ.

[hands11]

If Grunfeld's lucky enough to get Griffin in this draft, I think he'll out last Kerr, who's built his team around 36-yr old Shaq.

I don't think Kerr necessarily built his team around Shaq. He made the trade for him to make one last push for a championship with a defensively dominant center, because he knew the run n gun wasn't gonna cut it in the playoffs. Ballsy move to make considering how highly regarded the Suns were at the time.

Now that it appears that Shaq isn't the missing piece, word is that everyone on that team outside of Nash is on the table. If true, I like what Kerr is doing. He's got the cajones to admit that his team isn't good enough to win a championship, so he's doing the smart thing and blowing it up and starting again as soon as possible. Incredibly ballsy move considering the Suns are an above-average team, possibly still a playoff team.

This guy realizes the ultimate goal is to win a championship, not just be competitive. He's not living in fantasy-land, holding on to the hope that his team, which was once in first place in their conference for like a two-week span 3 years ago, still has a shot at a championship when and IF they ever get back to 100% healthy.

I think you're right that Grunfield will outlast Kerr if he lands Griffin. But like you said, it will only be because of luck. Griffin is the only guy that can possibly save him unless he pulls a rabbit out of his ass.

Funny thing is, your describing the Bullets of 30 something years ago. I can remember this as clear as day for some reason. I think I was still in JHS. I remember a team that was making the playoffs every year but not going anywhere. I remember walking up the street after reading in the papar that they finally decided to blow it up and rebuild. Here we are all these years later. Closest we got to it looking like something was under Nash. He got us really close, then the Howard thing happened. Abe sided with Howard and gave Nash the boot and it all feel apart again. Then after all those years in the dessert, we got EG.

People can hate on him all they like but he is the best GM this team has had since Nash and before that it was a while since we had a good one.

There is a well written article on building an NBA champ that I used to post a lot and had in my sig. When it gets right down to it, most GM can only hold things together and build a playoff team. Great teams are largely built on luck.

How many teams passed over MJ and he was the key to success for a long time. Every other GM just couldn't get it done because they didn't have MJ. But even MJ couldn't get it done alone. He needed pieces around him and a coach that could manage him and help turn him into a great team player.

Turning a trash franchise around with a very questionable owner is no small task. Chicago oddly enough had a crazy owner but the GM and coach got it done anyway.

EG hasn't had it easy with Abe as the owner hand picking his head coach who he had to deal with whole time he was the GM of this team. He almost got us a great assistant last year but Abe/EFJ blow that for us.

I think EG has done an above average job given the situation he was put in. It's hard to tell if it was a great job because so many key pieces are injured.